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Post by lisa363 on Apr 9, 2013 20:15:53 GMT -7
Hi
I have a 10 year old Pug named Stoney, on March 1st he woke up and was walking sort of like he was drunk..I took him to the vet and she thought it was neurological and she prescrbied Prednisone for 15 days...He did not seem to do any better so I called and asked for a referral to a neurologist..On March 21st I took him to a neurologist who said he had mild IVDD..She did xray and nothing showed up except a little narrowing in his back..She suggested an MRI (2500.00) and then possible surgery another 3000.00...My biggest fear being that with a pug they have such short breathing and to put them under anestheisa it would just scare me to death..so she decided on a longer dose of the preds...She gave him 2 x day for 7 days then 1 x day for 7 days then every other day for 9 more total...it did not seem to work in fact i think he got worse...i called and asked for some pain med and she prescribed gabepentin for pain and no more prednisone ...he eats and drinks well and is very happy every other way...I am so scared and upset and do not know what to do...I do not want to give up on him he is such a good dog..I bought him a orthopedic bed and keep him in it ...over the last few days he has been having trouble standing and i just want to cry...Can anyone please help me and give me some suggestions of what to do surgery is not a option for me as I do not want to put my dog thru that,...Please help....
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 9, 2013 21:05:10 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Lisa! I know this is upsetting and scary but you have come to the right place. All of us here are caring for with an IVDD dog or have in the past and know what you are going through. Give Stoney a gentle hug and tell him that you are going to help him get better by learning all about IVDD. The links below will give you information on Conservative care.. The hallmark of conservative care is Crate rest for 8 weeks 24-7 except for potty time. Crate rest acts as a cast of sorts to the healing disc and spine. Anytime out of the crate is a dangerous timefor the spinal cord. At potty time care is taken to carry the dog to and from the potty place.A sling keeps the rear from tipping and the spine aligned.Either a fence or harness/leash limits footsteps to the very fewest. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmHow to lift and carry: More reading here, an excellent overview: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmWhat was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail due when you do some happy talk? Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm
Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.htmlwww.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Thinking of you and Stoney!
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Apr 9, 2013 21:06:58 GMT -7
Hopefully a moderator will be along shortly to give you advice. The one thing I know for sure is that Stoney needs to be crated immediately. His best chance for recovery is to keep him as still as possible until the disc heals. Crated 100% of the time, only out for brief potty breaks. It's hard, but it can be done.
Read all you can here. There is a lot of good information on this site. Knowledge is key. The more you know, the better your conversations with the vets will be, and the better you'll be able to advocate for Stoney. Keep as calm as you can. Stoney will pick up on your energy. Hang in there. There is a light at the end of this tunnel. ------ Ah, see? Just as I posted this I saw that a moderator had answered you.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 3:05:15 GMT -7
Thank you for getting back to me...Stoney is on 100g of Gabepentin 2 xday..He just started it yesterday...I was never told to put him om strict crate rest I have just kept him to his orthopedic bed and taken him outside as needed..I have had him to his vets and to a neurologist 2 weeks ago...apparently she said he had mild ivdd and only prescribed prednisone which did not help..He was walking but now he stands and his back legs are crossed and he then falls and tries to move on his behind...make me so sad and I dont want him to see me upset...he eats and drinks fine (pugs are always hungry) he takes gluosamine and chondrotin with msm everyday to ...He had episode with this last summer but recovered quickly..he is 10 1/2 and he enjoys life otherwise...He has never cried in pain at all..I am thinking that is why he was never prescribed anything for pain , i just recently called and asked for something and that is when he was prescribed gabepentin and nothing else..at the time we were at the vet on march 21st she did not think this was a urgent situation...now he has so much trouble going to potty he is afraid...he has been going normally...any more suggestions I would love to hear..Thank you..also what can I buy to act like a leash to take him out he has a harness but he doesnt like to wear it so I am afraid to take him out with it ..did anyone ever use the reverse leash that goes under the belly? also I noticed that while he is sitting he looks back at his back ? He has been off of prednsione for 36 hours and still pants (although pugs do pant alot and he always was a panter) ..also he is on his second day of gabepentin and Ive notice he is very drowsy, he is actaully sitting in his bed with his eyes closed, is this normal? Does this medicine make you do this ?
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 7:05:08 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, my name is Lisa also. First, I'd like to ask that you read through our brief tutorial on IVDD so that you will understand exactly what is going on inside Stoney's spine. After you do so, you will understand when I say that the prednisone is necessary to control the inflammation on Stoney's spine caused by the bulging or herniating disc. The reason why Stoney was worsening is because he was allowed to move around. Every time a dog moves, this can cause a bulging disc to further bulge or herniate more fluid out onto the spinal cord. This is what causes the worsening neurological conditions that you are seeing. It is 8 weeks of strict crate rest that heals the disc while the meds control inflammation and swelling on the spinal cord (prednisone) and mask the pain (Tramadol, Methocarbamol, Gabapentin). Right now Stoney is not on anything to help control the swelling on his spinal cord. So please ask your vet if there was any specific reason why the prednisone was discontinued. It takes 8 weeks of limited movement to heal the disc - discs take longer to heal than even bones due to their low blood supply. Here are two links to help you with crate rest: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm and www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm As Stoney's disc worsens, you will see worsening neurological symptoms because of the swelling on the spinal cord. This causes the nerves inside the spinal cord to stop working. The result is, as you are seeing, crossing of the legs, inability to stand, and falling. As the disc worsens, he may tail wagging ability, then lose bladder control (in which case you would manually express his bladder until control returns). The last neurological function to be lost is called deep pain sensation, which in layman's terms is being able to feel sensation in the rear feet. When a dog's disc is healing during strict crate rest, the neurological functions return in opposite order, so DPS would return first, then bladder control, etc. So your goal with conservative treatment is to minimize his movements at all costs for 8 weeks, while the meds (a steroid and a pain reliever) reduce inflammation and mask the pain. Remember that a stomach protectant such as Pepcid AC is necessary to guard the stomach from the excess acid due to the steroid. If the stomach is left unprotected, internal bleeds can occur. The usual dose for a dog up to 15 pounds is 5 mg of Pepcid given 30 minutes before each dose of steroid. Get your vet's permission to give it. Please let us know that your vet has again prescribed the steroid. Carry him to and from the potty spot, support his rear with a sling or your hands, and only allow him to take a couple of steps to do his business. If he likes to walk around to do his business, put him inside a 6 foot ex pen so he can't wander far. Here's how to lift and carry an IVDD dog: youtube.googleapis.com/v/kyD2IW5m0qY We look forward to your next update on Stoney. Hang in there! Feel free to read through some of our Success Stories to give you hope and to help you believe that IVDD is not a fatal disease. It is very treatable, and even dogs that remain paralyzed have awesome lives!! www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htm Best wishes, ~Lisa
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 7:09:04 GMT -7
Lisa, I'd like to add to the imperative that Polly's mom and Pauliana spoke of. Let us know you ARE doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks The strict rest is what protects the early healing disc from worsening and doing damage to the spinal cord. Stoney at this point is still a good candidate to recover with STRICT rest.... the big if on that is if you can apply what you have been reading and commit to getting him inside a recovery suite. Anytime out of the suite is a BIG danger to his disc and spinal cord. The reason for prednisone is to get the swelling down in the spinal cord. Swelling = pain = the need to be on prednisone. Prednisone does not cure nerve damage such as wobbly walking, knuckling, paralyzed legs. Can you specifically tell us if you are seeing any of these signs of pain. shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? If there is no more swelling then there would be no pain and thus no need of any pain reliever such as gabapentin. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function What you need to monitor for is evidence of loss of bladder control as more damage occur to the spinal cord. Loss of bladder control would be if you are seeing he leaks on you when lifted and carried to and from the potty place or if you are finding urine in his bedding. Can you be specific on why you believe he is having trouble going pottty (pee or poop)? it is getting into position that may be painful. The more details you tell us the better we can help. At potty time set up an expen in the yard or some of that poke in the ground garden edging fencing in a 6 foot diameter. The visual and the physical barrier will let him know that no sniff fests are going to happen... Just a very, very few footsteps to get the job done. With the fence then it will keep him from darting off and you would only need to use a sling. Other wise you do need a harness and 6 foot leash and sling all to control his speed and keep his back aligned. I prefer the fence idea for my dogs. OR .....
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 7:27:49 GMT -7
Thank you ladies you are all so kind, I am so upset...I have Stoney right now on strict cage rest...No vet ever told me this at all and I let him out in a small room with a gate but he always tres to follow me around...Dr suggested getting off of prednisone becasue it wasnt helping (he was never in the crate while taking it) and I asked her for some type of pain meds as he never yelps or cries but he sits and looks back at his back..He also pants alot and I thought this may be due to some type of pain...I was wondering if I should start him on some type of accupuncture now or wait? i found someone that comes to the house and does it..Let me know what you think....Should I call vet and ask for more prednisone? The vet always urges me to do the MRI and then surgery if need be...The xrays showed nothing but I cant bear to put him thru the anesthesia..Please advise me, any help is greatly appreciated! PS Is it ok tom unlock the crate and sit there and pet him? He just sits there and looks so sad...
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 7:41:51 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, we highly recommend acupuncture and laser light therapy for IVDD. They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of relaxing the dog. I firmly believe acupuncture helped my Goosie regain his bladder control more quickly, and his movements were stronger after his treatments. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ Just make sure that the acupuncturist is also a VETERINARIAN. X-rays only show bones. They will not show disc bulges or herniations. I understand your hesitation to put Stoney under anesthesia. I suppose you should discuss with the neurologist whether they think they can maintain an airway in a pug under anesthesia? Only a vet will be able to reassure you. I can say that growing up, we owned an English bulldog that was put under anesthesia successfully several times. But as you know, every surgery has risks. Sorry I can't help you more in that regard. If this were my dog, I would be asking the vet for prednisone. Right now there is nothing to help the swelling on his spinal cord. Also, may I suggest (with no disrespect) that you find another vet who is confident in treating IVDD? Please check our database to see if there is a recommended vet near you: pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dodgerslist/database You may have to join that group before viewing the list. How are you doing with expressing the bladder? ~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 8:02:30 GMT -7
I have not yet had to express the bladder...I am going to call and set up the vet who does accupuncture to come to the house and do it..The vet did not take Stoney off of prednsione I told her that they were not helping him and she suggested to take him off but at the time he had no crate rest at all, just sat in his orthopedic bed..i still have 7 or 8 left and he just had one on Monday..Should I buy a sling for him to go outside with? He walks great on his front paws...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 8:35:30 GMT -7
Lisa, prednisone is one drug that just can't be abruptly stopped. There needs to be a taper to signal the body to again make its own critical steroid hormone again. Cortisol is what regulates the body. "It is important that the dose be tapered to an every other day schedule once the condition is controlled. The reason for this is that body will perceive these hormones and not produce any of its own. In time, the adrenal glands will atrophy so that when the medication is discontinued, the patient will be unable to respond to any stressful situation. An actual circulatory crisis can result. By using the medication every other day, this allows the body's own adrenal glands to remain active." www.marvistavet.com/html/prednisone.htmlWas pred abruptly stopped? I am in agreement with moderator Lisa, that you must seek out a vet who knows IVDD. The database mentioned has just been recently closed to new members. Let me know your city/state and I'll see if I can find a vet in the DB. The holistic vet may know disc disease. It is only by your own self education that you will be able to spot if she does or not and whether you should hire her beyond acupuncture services. This link can help you with the how to of hiring an IVDD knowledgeable vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmThis page will give you the overview of knowledge you need to have under your belt as to whether the potential vet's answers match with the typical meds, the need for crate rest, the need for a stomach protector, etc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmWe are at a disadvantage to help you if you do not answer our questions. What do you mean he has trouble at potty time...is it pooping that you mean...maybe it is because it hurts to get into position? Can you specifically tell us if you are seeing any of these signs of pain. shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy?
Swelling in the spinal cord = pain = the need for prednisone How to make a figure 8 sling and tons of wonderful tips in this supply list: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 8:39:08 GMT -7
I am sorry this is all new to me...No there are no signs of shivering and trembling or any of the thigs that you said...I do notice that even though Stoney had been neutered when he was young that his private part (red thing) has been sticking out? as for the trouble becasue his legs are so weak that is the trouble he has going to the potty...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 8:48:24 GMT -7
Lisa, you are going to do just fine with Stoney now that you are on a mission to learn and read. The penis may have had some nerve damage and that is why it does not retract into the sheath again as it should. With cleaned washed hands you can flick a bit of water on the penis and that should help it to slide back in. Was pred abruptly stopped or was it tapered down to an every other day dose? You do not need to purchase a sling, you can make one or just use a long winter scar, belt, etc. The idea is to be back up in case he leans or starts to tip over. Keeping the back aligned and the butt from falling over is all in an effort to have the back with the least amount of movement. Movement is what harms the disc that is trying to heal.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 10:45:24 GMT -7
I just had a episode with Stoney he was in his crate and I thought he was washing his face with his paws and he held his front paw so stiff so I held him and he was clinging his front nails into me and his paw was cramped up and tremoring...He is on his third dose of gabepentin, wondering if that caused this reaction ..He also has his penis sticking out so far and the vet said that was ok?
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 10:52:01 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, the problem with the penis sticking out is that the penis will dry out. When it is in its sheath, it is kept moist. As Paula mentioned, you can either sprinkle a little water onto it and pull the sheath back over it, or you can put some KY jelly on it and pull the sheath back over it.
Have you thought about talking with the neurologist about your fears about Stoney's breathing during anesthesia?
The front leg extension COULD be caused by compression of the spinal cord. This happened to my dog, only it happened with both front legs. His head/neck was also arched upwards. Please ask your vet for a steroid to help relieve that pressure on the spinal cord.
Hang in there, once Stoney is stabilized, you'll both be a lot more comfortable. ~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 11:00:21 GMT -7
Thank you, this was the first time that this happened and i thought Stoney might of had a reaction to the Gabepentin...I made my husband come home from work and all , i was so frantic...When you say about the anesthesia do you mean for the mri or for surgery? stoney is 10 1/2 and I am not sure i want to put him thru a surgery ...
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 11:04:22 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, yes, I was talking about the MRI and surgery. Just suggesting you talk to the neurologist about your fears and see what they say about the risk. I know that you are worried, but the vets would know best about the risks. How is Stoney right now? Is the leg still stiff? Did you call your vet about the prednisone? ~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 12:30:54 GMT -7
he is resting downstairs with my husband , I wish I could leave all day and my husband take care of him I am way to nervous///I have 7 prednisone left so I am gave him one today she said if I wanted to restart it would be ok...She is well aware of my fears and she only says that even if he had surgery they could not guarantee he would ever be 100 percent...so I am at a total loss as to what to do....I feel 10 1/2 is a bit old to go thru all of this, what are your thoughts?
What do you do of the dog sits in the crate and pants all the time?
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 13:23:08 GMT -7
the vet also suggested that I leave him in his bed with the leash attached to the table while I am home so he can lay in his bed instead of crate all day..did anyone ever do that?
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 14:29:43 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, my thoughts on surgery are this, and keep in my mind I am not a veterinarian, only the owner of a post-op IVDD dog. Neither surgery NOR conservative treatment are guaranteed to make a dog with disc disease 100 percent. The difference between the two is that surgery immediately removes the disc material off of the spinal cord, while with conservative treatment it takes 8 weeks for the disc material to be reabsorbed by the body and for the disc to heal. Both treatments require crate rest (6 weeks after surgery - dog is allowed out for potty breaks and physical therapy) and as you know, conservative treatment consists of 8 weeks of strict crate rest (plus meds). 8 weeks of crate rest for conservative treatment is what we have seen the most knowledgeable IVDD vets recommend: Dr. Bagley: Conservative treatment confinement may need to be continued for 4 to 8 weeks depending upon the rapidity and completeness of recovery. R.S. Bagley, ACVIM WSU www.ivis.org/proceedings/scivac/2007/bagley6_en.pdf?LA=6UC Canada West Vet Surgeons: Strict rest needs to be maintained by keeping the dog in a small cage for 6-8 weeks and then preventing it from running or jumping for a further month after that. It is necessary to continue rest for conservative treatment for this long period because a disc takes on average about twice as long as a broken bone to heal, as a disc has a very poor blood supply compared to most other tissues including bone. www.accg.com/page176.htm Your goal should not be for your dog to be 100%, but to be pain-free. Whether our dogs are walking or are using a cart does not matter - being pain-free does. The decision of whether Stoney is healthy enough for surgery and requires surgery would be up to the neurologist and up to you. I don't blame you for being nervous about surgery. If you decide not to do surgery, then conservative treatment is the other option. Prednisone makes dogs pant. Set up a an oscillating fan to circulate the air and help cool him, but do NOT have the fan pointed directly at him. I've never heard of a dog being leashed while having a disc episode. In my opinion, that is very dangerous. What if he were to tug at the leash or twist and tug? He could injure his spine further. If he does not like being in a crate, put him in a playpen or an expen inside the house. A pet stroller is also helpful while you're at home. If Stoney is used to sleeping with you, place a crate directly on your bed (have it supported by a wall on one side) and sleep next to him while he's in the crate. Please read through the two links on crate rest that I gave you - they give you tips and are very helpful. It sounds like you will not have enough prednisone for a full course. Is your vet going to refill it for you? ~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 15:08:25 GMT -7
Yes she will refill it, what is a full course? I have 7 [pred] left that I am giving him every other day...I do not want to give Stoney the gabepening again as he had that episode today which scared me to death..How do I know if he is in pain? He never yells or screams in any type of pain...
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 15:49:44 GMT -7
Hi Lisa. Well, the episode today could have been a reaction to the gabapentin, but it also could have been a number of other things - muscle spasm, the dog stretching out his front limbs in an effort to relieve the pressure on his spine, etc. Discuss the episode with your vet and see what they think. Dogs are stoic when it comes to pain and may not audibly show signs until they can't stand it anymore. Signs of pain are shivering/trembling, reluctance to move, yelping, panting (also a side effect of some meds), a tight-feeling tummy (like the skin of a drum), and lack of appetite.
Prednisone is usually given for one to two weeks, although some dogs require a longer course of up to a month. It all depends on whether the drug has completed its job of reducing the swelling on the spinal cord. When you taper prednisone and pain returns, you know it has not finished its job of reducing swelling yet.
It's a good idea to start acupuncture and laser light therapy as soon as you can. They both stimulate the nerves to heal, reduce pain and inflammation, and the acupuncture has the added bonus of inducing a state of well-being. ~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 15:56:14 GMT -7
Thank you so much Lisa..I am going to call and set up the accunpuncture, have you ever tried it? It cannot hurt the dog correct? Stoney has been on preds since march 21 hetook 2 x day for 7 days then 1x day for 7 days and now he is on his every other day..he has 6 left but vet is calling me in some more ...i asked her about pepcid and she said he is taking such a low dose that he does not need the pepcid?
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 16:12:15 GMT -7
I would phrase the question to the vet like this: Is there any medical reason why I can't give Pepcid? If the answer is no, then tell her you are going to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 minutes before each dose of prednisone. What do his poops look like? Are they dark/tarry looking? Any blood in it? Those are signs of a stomach bleed due to an unprotected stomach while on prednisone, along with pain and lack of appetite.
Did you tell your vet about the episode that you *think* might be related to the gabapentin? If you are at all nervous about giving the gabapentin, ask your vet if you can give Tramadol instead.
I've never heard of acupuncture hurting a dog. My dog has had acupuncture many times, and I believe it helped him regain his bladder control more quickly after his disc herniation. It also strengthened his movements and made him serenely playful. He also slept soundly after his sessions. Great stuff.
Remember that right now, in addition to relieving his pain with meds, the most important thing is the STRICT crate rest to heal the disc. It is minimized movement that heals the disc. Think of the affected disc as a cut on a knuckle that has formed a scab. Move the knuckle too soon and the scab will lift and ooze again. Same thing with the disc - allow the dog to move too soon or too much, the disc will further bulge or herniate fluid out onto the spinal cord, causing worsening neurological condition.
Try to put a smile on your face and in your voice while you're around your pup. Pups feed off of any negative emotions we may have. You don't want him to think he's being punished, and you don't want him feeding off of your nervousness, so do your best to SMILE! :-) I know it can be difficult to mask our feelings, especially in the beginning, just do you best.
~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 18:18:02 GMT -7
Lisa
He is eating fine. in fact he is always hungry...I asked the dr about the pepcid and she said it is such a low dose that he did not need the pepcid , now I am no sure what to do...he has hard superball like stool...
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 19:12:42 GMT -7
Lisa, I'm sorry, I got Stoney mixed up with another pup on here for a second - thought he had no appetite. My mistake. Glad that Stoney has an appetite. :-)
Regarding that superball, hard stool - you can help soften that (which will make it much less painful for Stoney to poop) by adding 1 teaspoon of plain, canned, packed pumpkin to his breakfast along with some water mixed in. This really helped my dog. Meds can bind them up.
It's bedtime here, I'll try to check in tomorrow. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by Brandy & Bruiser on Apr 10, 2013 19:17:49 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, Regarding the Pepcid. If the vet said there is NO medical reason for Stoney to NOT have the Pepcid then it is always better to be safe than sorry. You said he had hard superball stool? What is the color of his stool, brown, black?
My dog had surgery but he has also had 2 episodes and gone down since then. The last 2 times I have treated with Prednisone, Tramadol as well as Pepcid and childrens pepto chewables just as a precaution for stomach protection. In my opinion Stoney needs to be back on the original dose of Prednisone 2 times daily for 7 full days and stick with the 100% crate rest.
The best thing you can do for yourself and to maintain your sanity is read everything you can on this website to educate yourself. You will become more comfortable once you are more familiar. Do read all the links provided by Paula & Lisa. I couldn't have made it through Luke's episodes without them! Good luck and remember you are Stoney's voice!!!
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 19:41:30 GMT -7
Hi Brandy
His stool is regular color...brown...His vet who is a a neurologist said I did not need the pepcid with such a low dose of prednisone , I will ask her again tomorrow...Do you think I should get it anyways? This is so overwhelming and I try and not to cry but I always do...
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 10, 2013 19:59:59 GMT -7
Lisa,
My Vet at Purdue University Veterinary Teaching Hospital told us Tyler needed to be on Pepcid AC. They said it is needed anytime a dog is taking Steroids or NSAIDS to prevent Ulcers or a perforated stomach. She also told me that IVDD dogs have a tendency to have acid problems. This hospital is always up on the latest treatments and knowledge, after all they are educating the next generation of Veterinarians. I have total faith in their advice and in the advice you have been given here on Dodgerslist.
With respect, your Veterinarian is not comfortable treating IVDD and is not up on the latest treatments. Please, for Stoney's sake find a Vet who is. Lisa is so right when she said leashing a dog with IVDD to a table is just plain dangerous.
Best wishes!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 20:10:59 GMT -7
Lisa, it know it is difficult to get conflicting information. With disc disease it is YOU who needs to read, read, and read. This way you know the disease, the meds and the treatment inside and out and therefore can step up to confidently discuss things with the vet. Dr. Nancy Kay, , DVM, ACVIM, hit the nail on the head when dealing with IVDD when she said "Gone are the days when you simply followed your vet's orders and asked few, if any questions. The vet is now a member of your dog's health-care team, and you get to be the team captain!" www.speakingforspot.com/PDF/Medical%20Advocacy%20101.pdfNorth Carolina U. recognizes the high incidence of GI irritation in dogs with disc problems. The reasons are that pain and body changes are stresses. Just as humans can experience ulcers when under stress, dogs can also. NCU and 11+ hospitals working with NCU prescribe a GI protectant. Dogs presented to NCU with IVDD often develop GI upset whether they are given steroid medications or not. www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/tc/clinical_services/neuro/acute_disc.html Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. Stoney does not need any more problems on top of the disc episode he is dealing with. We are a bit confused now. Please update us with the complete prescription of Prednisone that is being called in. How many days at the full anti-inflammatory dose which is 5mg 2x a day before tapering?
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 10, 2013 20:11:34 GMT -7
That really scares me as she is a vet specialist neurolgist? I drove an hour to see her as she is one of the only 2 in the Pittsburgh area..I am going to keep him in crate but was wondering if I can buy a pet stroller and take him for a walk in it or do i have to wait til his crate rest is done?
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