PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 20:18:34 GMT -7
Lisa, the hallmark component of conservative treatment is limiting movement of the spine. Going on stroller rides would likely be too bumpy. A pet stroller is fine for inside the house to keep him by your side. Did you read the article on pet strollers to know all the details in use and size? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htmAll of our valuable information we tell you all comes from the writings on our web page. It is all there for you to read as quickly as you can get though them. www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 11, 2013 5:21:16 GMT -7
I have a question, right now while Stoney is on crate rest my husband thinks heshould beelft downstairs in his crate alone so that he does not see people movingaround upstairs and not get any rest..I feel so badto leave him alone ttil my husband gets homw at 6 pm..I want to bring his crate up in the day so he can look out the door and see us..What should i do ?
I did bring the crate upstairs and when he sees us he pants and wants out..Luckily I did though I found that he tinkled in his crate...My husband had him out early this morning and he said he went to the potty outside this am..First time he ever did this, he did have prednsione yesterday...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2013 9:15:46 GMT -7
Lisa we are at a disadvantage to help without full updated specific details on his meds… can you fill us on all his current meds, the dose in mg and how often you give them?
Please update us with the complete prescription of Prednisone that is being called in. How many days at the full anti-inflammatory dose which is 5mg 2x a day before tapering?
While on pred Stoney will now need to be taken outside to potty every 3-4 hours.
Most dogs do much better in the middle of family activity rather than isolated where they can become depressed. Looking out the window is good for his spirits UNLESS he is being rambunctious and jumping against the side of his crate, etc. You will have to make the determination where is best for Stoney.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 11, 2013 10:18:32 GMT -7
Stoney is on prednisone 5 mg every other day..He started 3/21 2 times per day for 7 days then 1 x per day for 7 days and now he is on the one evry other day and the new prescription he called in is for every other day...
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 11, 2013 17:20:41 GMT -7
I also wanted to know what todo if they have accident in their crate..? Stoney has 1 accident in his crate and I caught it right away...Is their something I could do? he does with help go outside to potty...
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Apr 11, 2013 18:21:29 GMT -7
I understand that the steroid can make them pee more than usual. Did he poop or pee in his crate? Maybe he needs a little more frequent trips outside to potty until he is off the steroid?
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 11, 2013 18:40:24 GMT -7
He does go out but he cant stand for long so he does pee and poop outside but for some reason today he has had accidents/..Today I feel very sad and worried things will never be right again..I feel helpless..What can I do ?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2013 21:48:30 GMT -7
Lisa, the only med he is on is Prednisone? No Pepcid AC to protect his tummy on taper off of Pred?
The test to verify if Stoney still has bladder control is the sniff and pee test. Can he still sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then release urine?
Leaking urine when lifted is a sign of loosing bladder control.
Let us know the details on how you found urine in his bedding...are you taking him out every 3-4 hours?
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 12, 2013 2:34:45 GMT -7
I asked the vet again and she said if I feel safer with the Pepcid to get it...Yes he still smells outside but right now he cannot walk so he stands there and he pees..i am not sure why he had accidents in his crate ..He goes out every 4 hours but sometimes he just wants to stand there..should i buy diapers?
He is on prednisone evrry other day for now..yesterday he did not have one but he does drink alot of water...I do not see him in any pain and neither did his neurologist so he is on no meds for paim..
He is going to start accupunture on tuesday
I am so scared I dont know what to do ...My dog will not stand outside , my husbnd holds his back legs and he has been going poop outside but this morning when he woke up his crate blanket was all wet...Please someone help me...
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Post by natureluva on Apr 12, 2013 6:42:56 GMT -7
Lisa, have you watched our brief tutorial on IVDD? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/index.html You really need to learn about what is happening to Stoney, then you will feel more confident and less scared. Stoney cannot stand because he has a disc that is either bulging or herniating fluid out onto his spinal cord. This is causing the nerves within the spinal cord to be compressed. When this happens, a dog can lose the ability to stand/walk, pee on his own, and wag his tail. As the disc heals, these bodily functions may slowly return. So your job with conservative treatment is to minimize his movements for 8 weeks and give his meds as prescribed. If he loses bladder control, then you manually express the bladder 4 to 6 times per day until control returns. If you think he's losing bladder control, ask your vet for a HANDS ON lesson on expressing the bladder and watch our video here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Be sure to carry Stoney to and from the potty spot. Support his rear with a sling or your hands, and only allow him to take a couple of steps to do his business. Here is how to carry an IVDD dog (keep the spine aligned and support both chest and rear): youtube.googleapis.com/v/kyD2IW5m0qY Please try to calm down. Being familiar with what to expect with IVDD will help you to feel better. All the symptoms that are happening to Stoney are "normal" for the disease. The recovery from a disc episode is a long one - discs take longer to heal than even bones. That is why it really does take 8 weeks of limited movement to fully heal the disc, while the meds mask the symptoms and help control inflammation on the spinal cord. Is there anything specific that you don't understand about IVDD that we can answer to make you feel more comfortable? I know it is difficult to see our dogs with an illness, but empower yourself with knowledge and you'll be able to feel a little less scared. Glad you'll be starting the Pepcid (generic name is famotidine) and acupuncture! Please let us know how it goes. Best wishes, ~Lisa PS - normal dose of Pepcid for a dog up to 15 pounds is 5 mg given 30 minutes before each dose of steroid.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 12, 2013 7:15:26 GMT -7
Thank you Lisa..
This all happened so fast and it has scared me to death..Stoney never ever went to bathroom n the house let alone in his crate..For some reason right now I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel..
I watched and read every piece of this website but when I am here and something actually happens I get so panicked...
Should I get doggie diapers for temporary , I watched videos on how to express but have not tried it yet...he just started these accidents 2 days ago...
I do understand the IVDD for the most part except that I am scared to death ...When I talk to his neurologist she just always suggests MRI and possible surgery which I do not want tp do ...Stoney breathes hard all the time and I am afraid that putting him under would be bad...
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Post by natureluva on Apr 12, 2013 7:32:34 GMT -7
If Stoney has been having pee accidents in the crate, then he may be losing bladder control. You cannot use diapers - they just trap the urine against the body and cause discomfort and bacteria, plus dogs hate being near their own excrement. When a dog loses bladder control, you need to go to the vet asap to get a HANDS ON bladder expressing lesson. Watch our videos so you will know what to expect before the lesson. Express 4 to 6 times per day. The reason for expressing is that when a dog loses bladder control (which is a nerve function), the bladder will fill up to capacity and overflow by reflex (this is why Stoney is having accidents in the crate). If this is allowed to happen, bacteria can quickly form due to the stale urine sitting in the bottom of the bladder. Bacteria causes urinary tract infections, which left untreated can worsen and cause sepsis. In addition, if the bladder is allowed to fill up to capacity and overflow, the bladder will eventually lose its tone which can lead to permanent dysfunction. SO, when our dog loses bladder control, we manually express the urine from the bladder 4 to 6 times per day until control returns (as the disc and nerves heal). This prevents infections and prevents the loss of bladder tone. Expressing is EASY, but takes PRACTICE! If you suspect that Stoney has lost bladder control, go to the vet for an expressing lesson. He may be just starting to lose control and could still partially have control. If he pees some outside on his own, but has accidents too, then he could be partially losing control. Use a sling to support Stoney's rear during potty breaks. A figure-8 sling is best for males - easy and cheap to make using two nylon leashes and vet wrap: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpg In the alternative, you can try using a scarf, tie, or strip of terry cloth. When using the sling, do not hold him up like a wheelbarrow - keep his spine aligned with the ground. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 5:28:05 GMT -7
Hi
Is there anywhere I can buy a sling? I have tried his harness and a bath towel but they dont work...What is best to use for potty time?
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Post by Cindy & Sophie on Apr 13, 2013 5:40:03 GMT -7
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 6:43:21 GMT -7
Thank you..I guess my question is when they wear those slings how do they go to bathroom? I do not know how to express yet and I have having trouble with peeing outside...He is still going to the other bathroom outside but he cannot squat to pee..In the 8 weeks of crate time do you use these leashes?
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 13, 2013 6:44:01 GMT -7
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 7:20:54 GMT -7
How do they go to the bathroom with these things on? I tried a towel for temporary but it covers his private parts...
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Post by Cindy & Sophie on Apr 13, 2013 7:36:38 GMT -7
Sorry Lisa, I am no help with that my dog is a female. I did not use a sling, because Sophie would not go potty with it on.....so I would set her down on the ground and support her with my hands and she would go potty that way for me!
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 7:51:01 GMT -7
I am at a loss...So sad as I dont know what to do...I cannot get him to pee outside..vet cannot take me to next week to show me how to express...I have pee pads in his crate to help for peeing now..
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 13, 2013 12:01:06 GMT -7
Lisa, you will need to get him expressed before next week. A vet tech should be able to show you. You don't necessarily need the vet. Did you talk with her or did a receptionist talk with you. A vet should understand the necessity of doing it right now. Have you seen our video on expressing. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmIf you can't get it done, I would suggest finding another vet or going to an ER clinic.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 12:40:27 GMT -7
Thank you, he has been peeing but mostly on his pee pads in his crate...I have taken him outside and tried and tried with no luck...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 13:17:54 GMT -7
Peeing on peed pads is not an indicator that he has bladder control.... in fact it signals his bladder is likely overflowing all due to reflexes....no bladder control. This is dangerous for his health. Very quickly he will develop an infection (UTI) plus his bladder can only release urine when it is very stretched. All that stretching will ruin his bladder tone so that when his nerves regenerate...the bladder won't work.
Today, Stoney, needs you help. Get to ANY vet, any vet tech. Be persistant, but get help for Stoney now. He needs you to manually express his bladder after having had a vet tech or a vet show you how.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 16:23:23 GMT -7
Now I am beyond sad...my husband does not seem to understand about iDVD and he saidvwhatbkind of quality of life does Stoney have not being able to walk? He has made me so sad...he is only been on crate rest for a week...this is all so frightening...what happens at the end of the 8!weeks if he is no better? I told him I will get him a cart if needed, he is so happy otherwise...hopefully the accupuncture on Tuesday will cheer him up..this is one of the saddest thing I have ever felt with in my whole life...please what do I do?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 17:43:29 GMT -7
I'm sorry your husband is looking at life through his own eyes and prejudices...how he would feel if..... Dog's just do not think that way at all...they have an entirely different outlook on life. They don't care how they get to point B from point A...as long as they get there. Your husband is struggling with these questions as many do. Have him read this information so he knows there is success at the end of crate rest. Please bring us up to date on your expressing lesson yesterday. This is my Clark and he LOVEs LIFE, loves, food, LoVES the warm summer sun, LOVES to lie by the warm fireplace, loves his walks in the woods. Clark LOVES life!!!!
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 13, 2013 20:24:55 GMT -7
Thank you...I am a bit overwhelmed but it will all work out somehow some way....Stoney has a accunpuncture appt on tuesday morning, I hope it helps in some way...I will not give up in stoney I love him with all of my heart....
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 13, 2013 20:31:34 GMT -7
It will work out, it is very overwhelming, I much agree. Your love for Stoney will carry you through and love makes you stronger.
HUGS TO you!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 21:13:53 GMT -7
Would you please answer the question..... what is going on with expressing?
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 15, 2013 14:56:02 GMT -7
So I went to Stoneys regualr vet today and she reexamined him and put him back on steroids with famotidine 2 x day for 7 days then 1 x day for 7 days then every other day for 7 days..She told me the risk of stomach problems and also the risk of developing diabetes ..
I told her he was on strict crate rest and she totally disagred with me she said that he could sit with the family in his bed at night as long as he is watched as to not to move..The vet and his neurologist both told me the same that there was no need to be in the crate all the time except for bed and if I have to go out...I am totally confused...She did say that if she pinched his rear legs she did get a response form him..
She did state that the neurologist said even with surgery that he would not most likely be 100%..I have opted not to do surgery at this time..
I asked her about the quality of life for stoney and when you know when it is time (as I was sobbing)..She said that when the dog cannot do what he likes to do then it is time..in stoneys case it is eating and he sure loves that...
I was wondering what to do when you are gone all day for work and the dog is on steroids, how does he get to go to the potty?
All this is so overwhelming and I am totally confused , who do I listen to? What is the right answer?
Thanks everyone for listening, this is so hard...
also i ws due to have stoneys first accupuncture tomorrow and vet told accupuncture vet it is best to wait to see how he does on the steroids..so she told me to call her by the weekend and let me know how he was doing on the prednsione....I was wondering why this was so? DId anyone ever hear of this?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 15, 2013 19:37:57 GMT -7
Lisa, we depend on you to paint a picture of Stoney's situation. I understand you are upset, and we are too, because we can't give the kind of help we want to give. Can you paint that picture we need by answering these questions: 1. What was the reason to go back on steroids? Was it because of pain? You did not list any pain meds. The purpose of prednisone is to get swelling down. Once swelling is taken care of there is no pain, no need of pred or pain meds. Nerve functions such as use of legs and bladder control are not "cured" by prednisone. Nerves heal all on their own, by the body's self healing process of regeneration of nerves. Acupuncture can help to stimulate, give a kick start to excite the nerves to get into gear to regenerate. Acupuncture and/or laser light therapy should be started asap during crate rest. How long do you want to wait until helping Stoney's nerves get going on heaing?
There are different approaches used to help various parts of the body heal during conservative treatment. Until you "get" it, I have to say it is all a mystery... anytime there is a lack of knowledge it is down right scarey too. Fortunately we have a new presentation of what heals, how it heals, and how long it takes to heal. This link is perfect for you to have an overall understanding. It is so much better than what I could ever explain in a post...so I do hope you will have time to take a good look: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm 2. Did you get a lesson on expressing? While a dog is on steroids, they need to have their bladder emptied every 2-3 hours by expressing their bladders. As with a sick child, parents just do what needs to be done to care for them, what ever extra care/time it takes. You or your husband may need to come home on staggered lunch breaks? You could board Stoney at the vet during the day. OR can you tell us that Stoney can pass the "sniff and pee" test which prooves he has bladder control... in that case he would need to be let outdoors every 3-4 hours.
Why crate rest? Because a disc takes 8 weeks to heal and you do not want to cheat Stoney out of any opportunity to have a full chance to recover. Stoney deserves it!! Beds and couches slope causing unexpected movement of the spine. Dogs always do the unexpected in a blink of an eye. Lisa, I know you would be beside yourself with terrible guilt if you knew he was safest in his recovery suite, but you cheated a bit and let him sit on the couch/bed. This animation kinda explains it is the simplest of terms...why you do not want to cheat on 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times. Who gets hurt if you cheat on crate rest..... well Stoney could be in a lot of intense pain as the disc retears, he'll maybe never be able to overcome paralysis. Your pocketbook will be hurt with extra vet bills...emotionally the guilt will eat at you. The vet will be able to ring his cash register with more meds, another vet visit bill. Maybe even the surgeon will have some extra income...as you may find the pain can't be controlled the next time and surgery is the only option to help Stoney. Commitment to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times is in effort to avoid surgery.
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Post by lisa363 on Apr 15, 2013 19:51:41 GMT -7
I appreciate what you are saying but I have been to my regular vet and neurologist and this is what they recommend, what is the right thing? They are certified vets, I was hoping that they know what to do... I do still have stoney on crate rest the vet said though as long as I didnt let him roam he could sit next to me... As for the steroids someone here asked me why I wasnt on it ? they never said he was in pain so they never gave him pain meds..she wanted to see if he would do better on prednisone..I am really feeling frustrated here, maybe getting to many opinions and different ones at that...
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