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Post by Pauliana on Jun 20, 2013 20:59:37 GMT -7
You are doing so well in taking care of Tucker and I know all about how traumatic all this is when it happens to your beloved dog..The good part is, it will get better.. You are a wonderful advocate for him and you are gaining lots of knowledge about IVDD that will serve you well in dealing with all this. Plus your knowledge on training and behavior is wonderful in this instance as well. You will get Tucker through this, I have every confidence.. Important for you to relax and take care of you too. Do something that soothes and comforts you.. listen to music, watch a movie, read or anything that helps you to feel better. We all need to do this.. and I am the first one to get stressed out and forget all about relaxing.. LOL Like Paula mentioned it really is a good idea to find a vet that is more knowledgeable on IVDD to work with you and Tucker. That would ease your stress a lot. Neuro and Ortho Vets work with IVDD frequently and are well versed in pain control since they see IVDD a lot more frequently than a General Vet does. Board-certified neuros (ACVIM) and ortho (ACVS) surgical specialists can be found at University vet teaching hospitals. You can locate others in your area here: www.acvim.org [neuros] www.acvs.org/AnimalOwner/DiplomateDirectory/ [orthos] |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 20, 2013 21:00:45 GMT -7
Thanks Paula! Tucker is 17lbs. Ugh!! He needs a diet! My husband feeds him to many goodies!! Not Anymore!! 14lbs was good!! Last time he was at the vet before this. 3lbs is a lot!
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 21, 2013 14:47:19 GMT -7
How are you and Tucker doing today?
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 21, 2013 20:42:43 GMT -7
Thanks for asking Paula. My Husband got home today from being away for work and they have a huge bond! Tucker is a little more restless in the crate with him around. Jerry lays to relax next to the crate and Tucker will finally relax and sleep. I come home to a wet crate and poops but he did that before this episode too. Unfortuney they (our dogs) are alone for a long time during the day. They are never crated until now. Tucker is in there all the time except to potty or to wash the urine off his leg (the one he lays on) I just set him gently down on the kitchen counter near the stink and wet it good and dry well with a paper towel. I always have a hand on him while there. From there I set him next to the crate change bedding and clean what needs to be in there change his water and he goes right back in. I have been lifting him in and out of the crate to go out but he has been yelping on the way back in so I lift him out and place him back in from the front. He has growled a bit at me when putting him in. I see that as pain and I now have him on a 25mg dose of the Tramarol every 8 hours. He has held his pee as I take him out until he gets outside and goes a bit as soon as i place him down. I think thats a good sign. I still express to be sure it's all out. I have a staircase I have to take him down. A few days ago he peed all over on the way down and all over my son as he held the door. He wags his tail a bit after the bladder pressure is relieved. Not sure if that's a nerve reaction or a happy one? He still can't use his rear legs. Poops are good and he is eating good. Lots if water though with the prednisone (10mg once a day still) which he is on until we see the acupuntureist on Tuesday. I'm excited about that! All in all I feel I see little improvements everyday. Unfortunately my husband has been away for most of this and can't see them. He won't until Tucker walks again! It's like having a newborn all over again. A good sign (I think) is that with Jerry around he really is himself without the use of his rear. I stay optimistic and the education this site has given me is beyond words for peace of mind!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 22, 2013 7:32:37 GMT -7
Jen, Tucker's pain meds are simply not yet right for him.
My 13 pound doxie was prescribed 50mgs of tramadol 3x a day. So you see your vet has not even come close to the max dose there.
Also typically methocarbamol is also added to keep the pain from muscle spasms at bay. And there is yet another, gabapentin, that can be added to the mix if need be. So you need to tell your observation of pain, growling when moved, yelping when moving and strongly advocate this morning for the kind of pain relief Tucker needs so he is not suffering over the weekend. Let us know what the vet says.
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 22, 2013 14:21:30 GMT -7
Hi Jen, As Paula mentioned, it would be a good idea to up the Tramadol to 50 mgs 3 times a day and as she mentioned Methocarbamol (muscle relaxant) and Gabapentin (for nerve related pain)can be added 3 times a day to keep him pain free dose to dose. Both of those drugs work very well with Tramadol to keep pain at bay so he can heal. There's still a lot your Vet can do to help Tucker and I know you are a strong advocate to get it across to the Vet. If they don't cooperate please look into finding a Vet that is more experienced in treating IVDD. www.acvim.org [neuros] www.acvim.org/PetOwners/FindaSpecialist.aspxI have a feeling that very soon Jerry will start to see the improvements you are already seeing. Pain medication adjustments can make all the difference in the world for Tucker in this early stage in his recovery. Thinking of you and Tucker.. |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 22, 2013 21:52:25 GMT -7
I had so much to go today I couldn't call my vet on time. I really don't even want to deal with them anymore with Tuckers issues. I want to keep him on the dose (25mg more or less with the cutting of the pills) of Tramadol (as much as I want to up the dose) until we see the accupunturist Tuesday (I can't wait). The acupuntureist is a part of a whole practice. I will definetly be observing and asking questions! She had said that we will discuss his pain and other Meds at our consultation. He really seems just like himself in the crate when we are here. I hate to go to work after caring for him all weekend. The only time he seems in pain is then in and out of the crate to potty. Week one is over. I have seen him change a little. The bladder is still being expressed. I took him out tonight and he sniffs a lot in his spot. It's dark and can't tell if he peed. We are so much looking forward to Tuesdsy!
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 23, 2013 10:12:17 GMT -7
I am anxious to see how he does on Tuesday with the Acupuncture appointment. So many Dodgerslist dogs have had good success with Acupuncture. Hopefully that Vet practice will work with you and Tucker much better. I have all my fingers crossed, that interferes with typing but what the hay. LOL
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 23, 2013 10:37:37 GMT -7
We have some progress! Tucker is sniffing and peeing when we go out! He still leaks a little in the crate but he lets it out pretty good outside. He will go a bit and stop and go a bit and stop. To me he is gaining his bladder back if he can go and stop. I express to check if he has emptied and we still get a little. He doesn't yelp anymore in and out of his crate but he shivers a tiny bit when carrying him out. That is the only time we see pain (which I don't like and will be discussed Tuesday). We haven't gotten any leg movement but he really wants to sniff and roam around. I forbid it. We only stay in a small spot and that's it. It's been a week on strict crate rest as of yesterday.
Thanks Paulina! I am anxious to meet them and get started!
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 23, 2013 14:41:28 GMT -7
Hi Jen! Bladder control coming back.. that's excellent progress on only a week of crate rest.  |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 23, 2013 17:47:14 GMT -7
Good news!
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 25, 2013 18:08:43 GMT -7
Update on Tucker Day 10 strict crate rest: Tucker did great with his first acupuncture laser appointment. The Dr. is optimistic but said it can go either way at this point. He had very good signs though! She loved that he was such a mush and all he wanted to do is give her kisses and check out all the cool stuff she picked up ( he is a very curious guy). She thinks he might be older than we think because of all the grey on his muzzle. He DOES HAVE deep pain sensation and a great thing is that he actually moved his leg to get away when she pinched him!! There was no pain when she did a little message down his spine either. She said that a lot of dogs will scream in pain. He pooped as soon as the first needle went into his head lol. That was definitely a relaxing sign. She recommends that we get a X-ray and blood work done just to rule out a possible tumor or arthritis. Also to make sure his liver and kidneys are doing okay with the meds. She gave us an herbal pain remedy called Body Sore. He is on one tablet every 12 hours of that with his 25mg of Tramadol for pain until the Tramadol is finished tomorrow evening. Then just on the Body Sore. She said if we still see pain when he is picked up then give 2 tablets twice a day. If that doesn't help then he may go back on the tramadol. She said that it might be hard to see any progress on the Tramadol because while on it it may make him a little wobbly just because it usually makes them a little dopy. He has another appointment for Thursday as long as it doesn't collide with my regular vets appointment after I call tomorrow. I am very happy with her and Tucker did great!! Positive thoughts!! |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 25, 2013 19:27:17 GMT -7
Wonderful news - it is amazing how happy we can all get over poop isn't it  |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 25, 2013 21:06:33 GMT -7
Good idea for sure about the blood work. Keep watching for signs of pain in case he has problems off the Tramadol. Sounds like a positive and wonderful appointment... Do you know what is in the Body Sore?
Thank you for the wonderful update about Tucker!
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 25, 2013 21:16:06 GMT -7
I'll have to look Paulina. I looked at it and its a bunch of chinese herbs. I'll post it tomorrow. calling my vet in the morning to set up more work. |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 13:22:15 GMT -7
Hi Jen, I want to thank you for being so helpful to new members.. we are short handed and I can't tell you how much it is helping. Kudos to you! |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 26, 2013 18:06:17 GMT -7
Thanks Paulina! Here is a link to the Body Sore the accupunturist gave us. It's much easier than trying to copy the little print on the bottle. www.euroherbsshop.nl/body-sore-200-teapills-p-1849.html?language=ENI took Tucker for a follow up with my vet tonight. It was short notice. They took X-rays and didn't see anything. Ugh! I'm just so confused! He said he would be a good candidate for a cart!! I still want to follow the crate rest fully through. He is starting to sniff and pee and he can hold it until I place him in his spot. When last week as soon as I picked him up he'd be peeing everywhere. To me he has some bladder control back. We are still expressing because i know that he doesnt got it all out but when we start to he will go on his own a little. We are now tapering off the prednisone tomorrow morning is 1/2 a tablet so 5mg for 3 days then a quarter for 2 days then a quarter every 2 days until its gone. I feel we are doing the right thing with the crate rest even though X-rays didn't show anything. He also got bloodwork done. I have to call for results tomorrow. They say he is in 100% paralysis. Yesterday he had deep pain sensation and moved his leg when the accupunturist did the test. Even she said that's a good thing! I feel like I want to cry because I don't know what else financially we can do. It's only been 11 days and I feel I'm seeing improvement. We have another acupuncture appointment tomorrow. I really want to stay positive. We are prepared to have him in a cart if we have to but we will NOT give up yet! |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 19:27:58 GMT -7
Hi Jen, I feel you are seeing improvement from what you just wrote. Don't let the vet discourage you. It's a wonderful sign that he is sniffing and peeing and waiting until he is in the right spot even if he isn't emptying completely, it is the start of bladder control! Don't even think of a cart until 8 weeks of crate rest is over. He may be walking by then.. This is the order that nerve regeneration happens: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4.Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Xrays don't always show the details of what is happening with the discs and spine because they are soft tissue. Like you said it's only been 11 days and you ARE seeing improvement and you are giving him the best of care.. I think the acupuncture vet with her positive attitude will be of more help to Tucker than your current vet and she correctly identified deep pain sensation when your current vet can't find it. Don't cry, my friend, be positive.. Tucker's body just needs the time to heal. He's got your love and that is the best healer in the world.. |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 26, 2013 20:35:42 GMT -7
Well we have got deep pain sensation. Identified by our accupunctureist yesterday. We only get tail wags right now with expression. I make sure he isn't knuckled over when standing in the sling outside while expressing and he will attempt to squat. I see that as good!
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 27, 2013 17:14:33 GMT -7
Just got back from our acupuncture/laser Dr. and I love this woman! She also did B12 injections today. She said Tucker IS NOT in 100% paralysis. Not if he is holding his bladder most of the time and all night, can tell us he has to poop, squatting a bit when he pees (we are still helping to get it all out) , and holding himself up for a bit when put in a standing position. Her diagnosis is disc disease. We were not told until today after his x-rays came up with nothing visible. Ugh I am so mad at my other vet for just giving up on him and not doing things to rule out a misdiagnosis. I am so happy I heard about this site!! Well we finally are getting things going in the right direction! Tucker had a little discomfort when she did the spinal exam today. She said it's probably because he didn't have any more Tramadol he had the last pill (25mg) we had this morning. She said she wants to be more aggressive with his pain management and he is now on 5mg prednisone once a day for the next two days (we are getting off it as per our other vet). 5mg Pepcid (30 minutes before he eats and gets the pred), 50mg of Tramadol 2 times a day, and a herbal pain medicine called Body Sore he gets 2 tablets twice a day. Also on 1/4tsp of fish oil in his food twice a day. She said it has good anti inflammatory properties and it's good for his joints. She said we are making progress!! When we got there there was another pup there with limited use of his legs seeing the same Dr. I spread the word to him about Dodgerslist! He hadn't heard of it |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 27, 2013 21:03:58 GMT -7
Your new vet sounds wonderful - you have done such an amazing job of advocating for Tucker! He IS making progress, don't doubt it for a minute Keeping you in thought and prayer |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 27, 2013 21:22:44 GMT -7
Thanks so much Stevieluv!! I am so happy with her!! She does home visits too!! I'm NOT giving up like my primary vet did!! I see improvement so. To me that's what counts!! He is so himself just without his rear leg movement. The great thing is that Tucker loves her too. He is so curious whenever she picks something up. She will even explain it to him and show it to him. He gives her kisses and loves her. It's a great experience for him. The thing though is that I have to hide his transport crate. He goes nuts when he sees it! Well any crate for that matter. He is crate obsessed. Even at the accupunturist. Someone came in with a kitty in a crate and Tucker just went nuts. I know it's not the cat, he lives with 4. It's the crate. Lol.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 27, 2013 21:28:06 GMT -7
Good job Jen - well done!
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 29, 2013 18:44:27 GMT -7
The crate is a touchy subject for Tucker! He doesn't understand it is to help him. I am so happy you found a Acupuncture/Laser vet that makes house calls and has a positive and helpful approach unlike your other Vet. I look forward to hearing all about his progress in the days to come.. I am so excited for you and Tucker!!
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 29, 2013 21:25:24 GMT -7
We have figured out a great way to get him in and out of his creat now. We open tbe front and top. We support his rear and he walks out with his front legs. When he is out we pick him up to take him out. No more shivers when I pick him up. He does move a little to get comfortable in my arms though. He is squatting to pee when I express. We went to the bushes today and he sniffed and wanted to pee but didn't. He tryed to lift his leg and couldn't. I have been getting more tail wags too. He also can stand for longer times. I have been pinching his toes a but and he has been moving his legs to get away. That to me is that he can still feel them. Accupuncture is working!!
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 30, 2013 12:14:49 GMT -7
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 30, 2013 17:37:11 GMT -7
Thanks so much! We ARE getting more tail wags and LOTS more sniff and pees!! He is also standing for a little longer when put in a stand. He is telling us when he needs to go too we are moving in the right direction. |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 30, 2013 18:38:23 GMT -7
I couldn't be happier for you and Tucker and this is relatively early on too which makes it even better! Will be looking forward to Tucker's updates as you continue up the path to recovery..
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Post by kathynpooh on Jul 1, 2013 11:16:39 GMT -7
I am glad Tucker is getting better. Glad we are al hear to learn and support each other. I will keep him in my prayers and send him healing energy. Keep up the good fight. Kathy and Pooh. Oh by the way Tucker and my Pooh look so much alike lol
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 2, 2013 18:02:13 GMT -7
Tucker is now showing signs that he wants to stand! When he has his legs under him when we open the crate i can see he wants to use them. We are getting a lot more tail wags too. He has been doing much better holding his bladder and goes all night and wakes up dry. I feel like a new mom again! He is also holding himself up a lot longer when put in a stand. We are working on week 3 of rest now. He now comes in from potty break and with assistance ( holding his rear up) walks right back in the crate. We have covered the sides and back with a blanket and it really helps him relax. Less stimulation I guess. He loves being covers up. Typical Doxie. Next accupunture appointment is Friday. I love this new Dr!! |
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