cera
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Post by cera on Oct 6, 2013 16:15:37 GMT -7
Sitting here with a blank screen in front of me, my stomach in knots.. so where to start?
My baby's name is LittleFoot, he came home with me in 09 one night from work, tiny and small, he fit the palm of my hand. He is a mini Long Haired Doxie, though I do believe his one parent was standard. So maybe tweenie is a better word for him. he stays around 14 pounds, and the vet has yet to yell at me. Did I mention he LOVES to eat normally??
I got a text from my husband to call him while I was at work Saturday, My husband never says.."Call Me" not like that, and I feared something happened to my grandmother, who lives with me. It was LittleFoot..he came out from under the bed, where he likes to sleep, in a dresser drawer, and made it down the hallway, and he plopped down, ..I had my husband call the vet immediately, and it went from come in at 11..to bring him in NOW.
I use to be a Kennel Manager, the place I worked for once was operated by the Vets I still use today..I trust my vet fully. She pulls no punches, and been around a long time. Some find her stand offish, until one realizes, she has a heart of gold. She had the office hopping..one x-ray later, and me on a speaker phone, she explained the x-ray to my husband. Middle of his back is a ruptured disc. he has no feeling on his left foot, his right did..at the time. CRATE rest.. she gave him a shot of a strong pain killer, works instantly, and I am guessing a shot of steroid. Back to the vet Monday Morning..and sent home with tremodyl..(I am VERY familiar with it..my last baby, a 60 lb Shep/golden had issues)..Prednisone, and a muscle relaxer. (Again..Familiar with that also, but my last baby couldn't tolerate steroids to well.. )
But this..is something I always feared. Knew the risks, and feared them all the same. I came home and he wagged his tail, and my husband carried him to me..a friend who runs a rescue lent me a crate, which he set up as soon as I got home with it. He snuggled in nicely, but barely would eat for me. Taking him out, we found a belt did not work to well, he is so low to the ground to begin with, it was hard to see if he peed. lol But he ate, and he slept well.
Today.. I fear his feeling in the right leg is gone now. he is not eating to well, but he finally did drink water. He has not had a bowel movement, and honestly, I was relieved when I saw he peed in his cage, just so I knew he did pee. To pick him up, take him out.. I fear the peeing is now automatic when one places pressure on his tummy. We have an 8:30 am apt with my vet. I have no money for surgery, and honestly, by taking off, I may likely lose my job. (Now had this been next month, I'd have been ok with that..but how does on explain to unemployment, I had to take off because it was a vet emergency?) And my family and my babies come first, always have.
So he is crated, my son in it with him,..well, partially, he is almost 21..lol and Littlefoot is sound asleep with his head on my sons arm. My other dog, who I rescued after I lost Sassy keeps a check on LittleFoot just to make sure he is ok.
But I fear I am losing it guys..My grandmother has Macular degeneration, I work normally 30 minutes from my house. What am I suppose to do?? and if anyone asks me again about Putting him down, I will bite their head off. if this baby needs a crate down the road, so be it. I'll have one built.
I lost my baby August 3rd 2012, I will NOT lose him, Sassy would come back and bite my rear for it. lol I was told to come here from I Love dauschaunds on facebook, where I met a few good people also, it helps knowing, I am not alone.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 6, 2013 16:35:07 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. Is your name Cera? I'm so sorry to hear of LittleFoot's difficulties. Bless you for not considering putting him down. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm Can you give us a bit more in essential information about your dog: -- Is there still currently pain? Signs of pain are shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, just not their usual perky-interested-in-life self. There should be no signs of pain between doses of medication. If you see pain starting close to the next dose, then the dose needs to be adjusted by the vet. -- What are the exact names, dose in mg's and frequency of all meds? -- Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using anti-inflammatories. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking anti-inflammatoriess. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory (not to exceed every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board. -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? Once your dog is off all medication and has no pain, the very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed or weak legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. Check with your vet before starting. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm-- Dogs with IVDD must be carried with their spines horizontal, carrying both ends. Here's a video showing how to properly lift and carry: -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html The best way for you to help your dog is by learning about his disease. Here are some links to get you started. Please click on all of them to get a good background of understanding. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmDodgerslist has an excellent DVD available for only $3 including shipping. It's great to have on hand to show to family/friends/petsitters so they will know what they can and cannot do with your dog and how they can help: www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm It sounds like you're expressing LittleFoot's bladder by placing pressure on his tummy. Here is more information on expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm I know how difficult this all can be. Once we have the additional information requested above, we'll be better able to help you. Hugs to you and LittleFoot.
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 6, 2013 20:31:30 GMT -7
Hi Cera, welcome to Dodgerslist.. So sorry to hear that you and your dear LittleFoot are having such a rough time. Just to clarify you mentioned he was sent home with Tremodyl.. Not sure if you meant Tramadol or Rimadyl? Tramadol is a general pain reliever that is commonly used with IVDD. Rimadyl is a NSAID and absolutely should NOT be used while LittleFOOT is on Prednisone.. Very dangerous to her GI tract. Stop giving it if that is the case and stick with the Prednisone. If it's Tramadol, that is very okay.
NOTE: FDA and manufacturer package inserts warn against use of a NSAID with a steroid or with another NSAID without a washout period of 4 to 7 days before starting the new medication. Vets that practice safe medicine require a 4- to 7-day washout period between the medications.
When using either a steroid or NSAID, an acid reducer such as Pepcid AC is necessary. Dodgerslist follows those vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach, choosing not to wait until a bleeding ulcer or life-threatening stomach perforation happens. Ask your vet this way: is there any medical reason why LittleFoot can't take Pepcid AC to protect her stomach?"
These are serious signs of GI tract problems which can quickly move to a life threatening situation, get with your vet ASAP about a 2nd stomach protector, Sucralfate, in addition to Pepcid AC (famotidine): Not eating, vomiting, loose stools, diarrhea, red or black blood in stools..
Constipation isn't unusual considering the medications.. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato.
Sending prayers your way..
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 7, 2013 9:59:49 GMT -7
Thank you ladies... I been through all this before, with almost the exact same meds given, except prednisone, because my other baby couldn't handle steroids. Only difference this time, is this is the worst case scenario, and one I dreaded happening. LittleFoot as of right now, is on the Prednisone, 1/2 tablet, 2 times a day, yesterday.. 10/6 and 10/7 and then 1/2 tablet every day for 7 days starting tomorrow, then 1/2 tab every other day until finished... And yes,.. Pepcid.. seeing steroids can cause a lot of other nasty crap he does not need to go through. :/ Methcarbamol..500mgs 1/4 tablet 3x's Daily Tremadol..(Had I kept my supply of these from before. ) ... 1/4 tablet 3x's Daily for pain. I had the follow up visit today with my Vet, who I knew as of yesterday, what she would tell me. He has no feeling in both rear legs, really no bladder control, though he has held it a bit until we got outside..he will whimper to go out, and when I took him out, he did pee..concrete is better, because he is so low to the ground, at least I can see if he does anything. Though he did pee by the trashcan, which he always did. Bowel movement, his does have reflex's there when she checked, which is a good sign, however, he has yet to have one, and that is something I am closely watching. Though to be fair, he hardly ate at all on Saturday,..Yesterday, we got Liver Cheese and later, Boiled Chicken down him, he refused the steak originally.. Today he did have an egg..he turns his nose up at canned dog food..(Smart pup)..and he is finally eating some treats. I still have boiled chicken which I can shred later, and add to it..but the pumpkin is out. he refuses to even taste it. My other dog however thought that was great when she got a taste of it.. So my options are of course, surgery, which gives me 50 percent chance of walking, following physical therapy. Or stay on meds, crate rest, just now add 3 "5" minute towel ..or sling walks..and a warm bath with massaging his back legs daily. It may give me a 25 percent chance of him walking..and she called it a spine walk, which I knew what she meant right off.. which can happen also I know with surgery where they have a slight hump. His disc affected is right on that darn hump, I have the x-rays with me in case I called Metro animal hospital here in Louisville Ky that specializes in surgeries. However, money is an object, and I do not have the credit needed to apply for care credit at all. My Vet does not pull punches, and I know what I can also face down the road, but as she said, whether I choose Surgery or the Conservative care, at least 8 weeks in the crate and do one or the other, and then we will take it from there. I just know I wish I COULD afford the surgery..but I also know from reading comments on here, and other sites, that for some, the conservative care can work also. This just hurts all around, for many reasons. Saturday and Sunday were a bit rough, because he just did not seem at all interested in anything, where today, he is so much more alert, and I see my little "Fighter" in his eyes. And people are right..put him down and poof..he can be gone..lol Little man has some serious front arm strength when he was pushing against me in the car..lol I told my family it is going to take ALL of us to see this through, and I am just glad I have a husband and a son that are there to help with this. However, the downfall is our work schedules, and my grandmother is not capable of taking Little man outside if we are all at work. Soo.... I need prayers to help us see this one through, and to help keeping me from losing my mind. And thank God I found your site.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 7, 2013 10:03:24 GMT -7
I'm not one of our wonderful moderators who have tons of information, just another "mom" watching her "baby" falter. Just sending you tons of support and hugs...this is a rough road. PS...I totally get the financial restrictions...so do many here. We do the best we can for them with what we have and lots of love.
Jean
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 7, 2013 10:42:18 GMT -7
Thank you so much Jean, it means a lot!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 7, 2013 11:09:54 GMT -7
Dear Cera, If LittleFoot has lost deep pain sensation, then there is a window of time where surgery can still be successful. That window of time is 12-24 hours from losing deep pain sensation (DPS). Even after that window of time, surgery is often successful. The spinal cord is very fragile, the more hours after the window, the less chance of a complete recovery. Please don't feel guilty if you can't afford surgery. There is still hope that DPS will return with conservative care. But you must be diligent in keeping crate rest 100% strict 24/7. In that regard, your vet is incorrect in advising you to start three five-minute sling walks. The purpose of crate rest is to limit movement of the spine as much as possible. The crate acts as a cast for the back. He is only to be carried in and out to potty or to the vet. When doing potty, his steps should be limited to a very few. And your vet is also incorrect in advising you to give LittleFoot a bath every day. Any time out of the crate is a dangerous time for a dog with IVDD. Wet dogs are very slippery and a slip and fall is not something you want for LittleFoot. Once LittleFoot is off all medication and has no pain, the very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed or weak legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmMy prayers are with you.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 7, 2013 11:55:52 GMT -7
Majorie,..
Can I ask what do you believe are the chances of him ever regaining feeling would be? My vet did not suggest a regular bath, but warm water and massage his feet and legs. I am in between on that, because I know warm water can help, ..their would be no chance of slipping, seeing he can not walk as it is, and he would be on my lap..from there, then back to the crate. My last dog absolutely hated being smelly when she had an accident, that she willingly would get in the tub, at the end, when it was not even feasible to carry her in and out, and she no longer could stand....her loss, a year later, still hurts us all.
Forgive me, I am just typing out thoughts as I go.. The "Walks" I see your point in and I have to agree..with the pain he is in, and the newness of the injury, I even hate taking him out and making him go restroom, even though I think it is more a habit, then a nessecity, due to him really having no bladder control. But he was never the type either to go out to one spot and have a bowel movement.. and him not having one concerns me, and I am unsure if he knows how..lol (Did that make sense? I know he knows how, but does he have the sensation to push?? )
I wish I had the money..I'd not hesitate to do the surgery, and she said if I considered it, the sooner I take him in to see those dr's, the better. They speak of our healthcare being so expensive, and yet I have spent way more on vet bills, for Sassy, my Mom's dog, and now this.. then I did for my almost 21 year old son. Frustration over not being able to do the surgery is getting to me. :/ Heck, if it were more affordable, maybe more people would be able to keep their pets instead of placing them in an overcrowded shelters.. ugh.
Bare with me Ladies, I am usually a bit nutty, and more coherent. lol Littleman is sleeping, which I prefer to see right now, it is a restful sleep, and much needed for him.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 7, 2013 13:15:53 GMT -7
Dear Cera, I wish I could tell you what LittleFoot's chance are but no one, not even a Board-certified neurologist or surgeon, can tell you what type of recovery LittleFoot will have, though they may throw a number at you. I do know that it takes 8 weeks for the disc to heal and for scar tissue to form over the disc. As for regaining feeling, that means nerve regeneration and that can take weeks, months, even years. And, of course, sometimes the nerves do not regenerate. If you can afford it, you might want to look into acupuncture or laser light therapy. That can be helpful in giving the nerves a jump start and can be started while on crate rest. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htmOne important thing I do want to point out to you is that usually Prednisone is given at the anti-inflammatory level (5 mg 2xday) for one or two weeks before trying a taper. Your vet has prescribed only a few days on the anti-inflammatory before tapering. You'll need to be on a close look-out for any signs of pain. If there are signs of pain, that means that more time on the Prednisone will be needed and you'll need to notify your vet. Warm water is not going to heal the disc or regenerate the nerves. Only restriction of movement will heal the disc and only time will heal the nerves. At this point, there may still be swelling around the spine. The swelling is pressing against the spine and that is what causes pain and nerve damage. Until that swelling is gone, you don't want to do any type of therapy or massage. Once the medications have been tapered and there are no signs of pain, then the exercises in the link I gave you before can be started, but only then and only the passive exercises. I'm glad you agree about the "walks". Limited movement is what will heal his back. Don't be concerned about his bowel movements. He may not have the sensation to push but reflex will work to get the poop out. You can learn to express for poop, too, which will help with accidents. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Yes, vets can be extremely expensive. I have certainly learned that the past two years. We can only do the best we can do. There are no guarantees with surgery, as there are no guarantees with conservative care. And there are risks involved with surgery. So please don't feel any guilt. You're being a very good advocate on behalf of LittleFoot and are to be commended for getting him the care he needs and for looking further for more information. Blessings to you both.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 7, 2013 15:54:25 GMT -7
I think the hardest now is when he is awake, he simply does not understand that he can not come out and play. He definitely is more alert today then the last two days.
I called my vet back to let her know which treatment I am going with, and I am scheduled to go back in two weeks, unless something happens in the meantime. I fear with him being so alert and awake, he may wear himself out more just in whining. I have his cage in the Kitchen, seeing I spend basically all my time in here, and family members come and go, so someone is always here. Last night, we moved the cage in the frontroom, and I slept on the couch. that looks to be my new sleeping area for some time.
I am not doing the walks..not until I know for certain he is up for it, and that from all I have read, is about 8 weeks from now. I believe I saw on another thread someone stating they used Green Tea to wipe their pup down, to help with the urine? Can that be confirmed? I know Litteman here will need something, poor guy goes out to pee, and it shoots straight out, catching his front legs. lol
I know Laser treatment helps, I am unsure if my Vet knows it also can be used during this time, so I think I will be placing a call with her and leaving a message. I know they've done Laser treatments, a friend who runs a rescue, rescued a little girl that had a severe chemical burn on her back, and laser helped a lot. I am unsure of costs, but will ask my vet and look into it.
I appreciate all the advice, and letting me ramble on.
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 7, 2013 16:42:05 GMT -7
Marjorie has used the green tea to clean up urine from the fur and skin. The green tea neutralizes the urine and the smell too My Stevie had laser and accupuncture and benefitted greatly - it's a really nice adjunct to conservative treatment if available and affordable ( some places are ridiculously high)
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 7, 2013 17:32:46 GMT -7
I will call my vet tomorrow and ask. I am also going to ask about seeing if I can up the dose on Tremadol. I know he moved and let out a yelp earlier and it was way too soon to give him anything. I know with my last baby, Sassy, they told me I could, because it was a low dosage. Or maybe they can give him something more. Poor guy is laying awake now.. Only issue I have is when he decides to sit up..I prefer him to lay.
I am guessing to boil the tea, and allow it to cool and then wipe his fur down? I think it will help him feel better too if he does not smell..lol I know Sassy HATED it,, and towards the end of her life, would climb in the tub for me for a rinse down.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 8, 2013 7:14:31 GMT -7
Cera, the yelp is showing that there is still inflammation in the spinal cord that Pred needs to continue to work on. So it is clearly not time to start the taper of Prednisone today, 10/8. Your vet needs to know about the yelp so that LIttleFoot can stay on the original dose of Pred.
Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a call for a taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too.
Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed.
--Can you tell us specifically how many mg's of Pred 1/2 tablet is? Tablets can come in several mg sizes. --Can you tell us specifically how many mgs of Pepcid Ac he is getting. It should be 5mg of Pepcid AC (famotidine) 30 mins before pred and thereafter every 12 hours. Pred should be giving with a meal for additional stomach protection. --Your vet has plenty of room to move with Tramadol. 12.5mg's (1/4 tablet) is a very low dose for a 14 lbs dog. The goal is 100% pain control dose to dose of the pain meds (tramadol and methocarbamol). It is alright for LIttleFoot to sit on his butt to change positions as long as he is not doing the rambuctious sitting up on his hind legs, trying to jump on the sides of the crate.
Let us know what your vet says this am, when you report your observations.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 8, 2013 8:51:15 GMT -7
Paula, He is on 5mg's of the Pred. As of▼ today, it is suppose to be 1/2 a tablet a day for 7 days. Pepcid is 5mgs, 30 minutes before pred.
And my husband was wrong, when I went into the vet yesterday, they read back the chart, and he was 16lbs as of Saturday, though with him not really eating much, I know his weight will drop some.
He has yet to have a bowel movement, and that really does concern me. He doesn't like pumpkin and refuses to even taste it. Looking at the medication in front of me, I will also have to let her know that if I am scheduled in 2 weeks to go back, this is not going to be enough meds on hand.
I think we got this in and out of the crate down pat some..I am a bit bigger then the crate..lol He will place himself sitting up, but he can not sit all the way up. he has no use of his back legs at all. They said to place the towel under his ribcage when we take him out, but his disc that is affected is on that hump, and even lifting him, his whole back end would drag. This morning his towel was wet, but later on, he started to whine, and I took him out and he peed. He never was one to use the same spot, so he will truck a few step and then pee, upon coming back in, I checked the towel and it was dry. I am unsure if he has zero bladder control because of it. He seems to know he has to go outside.
I will be honest, I was suppose to be at work, I am more then likely going to lose my job, but their is no way I could be gone all day, my grandmother is in no shape to help, and my son and husband also work.
I am unsure how other's have managed this. :/ But I do know I am NOT giving up on him. If their is a chance he can walk, with or without a cart and go on to lead a pain free and happy life, My Littleman deserves the chance. Poor guy stood by with me through all of Sassy's issues.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 8, 2013 9:55:18 GMT -7
Can you discuss with your employer of your quandry, work out with your employer to possibly come home at lunch, stagger your work day so there would then be over lap with your hubby's and your son's to give more coverage. Please call into your vet asap, about getting sucralfate on board today. It is an Rx item they can call into your local pharmacy. Not eating is a sign of pred problems that needs to be nipped in the bud before it gets deadly serious. Continue to give Pepcid AC 2x a day 5mg's 30 mins before pred. And give pred with a meal for further stomach protection. Do your homework as usual for all your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlGet him out of the crate in this way. Keep a towel under him, better would be a fleece sheet. As synthetic fleece dries quickly and wicks moisture away from the body. More details on cutting up fleece as a bottom sheet under " Blankets and change of bedding" www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm. So back to how to get him safley out of the crate. Put a fleece blanket under him. When time for potty pull the fleece sheet towards the door of the crate where you will be better able to pick him up carefully supporting both ends. You might also want to convert your crate to a top opening one as mentioned in the Crate Supplies article: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/cratetopconvert.pdfNote alternatives to pumpkin: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. At potty time the towel is way too much coverage on the penis. Use an ace bandage, a belt, a winter scarf OR better yet for male dogs is the figure 8 sling. How to make one with two leashes: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpg At potty time the sling is not supposed to be pressing on the bladder. That pressure is just like expressing so hard to tell if he can pee on his own then. If he IS sniffing and then peeing when he finds the right spot…that would be bladder control. Let us know the details on his pottying. Keep us posted on what the vet says today about the yelp of pain and getting back on the the original dose of Pred a bit longer.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 8, 2013 14:51:35 GMT -7
Littleman was a bit feisty today..lol We finally heard him bark when my mom came over, the first sound we really heard from him since Friday,..what a relief. Then as I was getting supper done, he was tearing up his cage, he uses his teeth to pick his blanket up and throw it, I told him patience..lol and as soon as I could, got him outside, where he peed.
However, he does not walk and sniff, So bladder control is nilch, but it is strange he knows when he has to go, and let's us know.
I spoke with my vet, we upped the Tremadol to 1 1/2 AM , 1/4 afternoon, and 1/4 pm, that she said is the highest she can go with that. Pecid continues, and while he turns his nose up at regular food, he is eating more then he was, though not all at one setting.
She said that tramadol can also cause constipation, so I am giving him Colace, 1 tablet, 2x's a day until he poops, then one a day. IF he does NOT have a bowel movement by Friday, to bring him in.
I am also going to try him on a Sweet Potato and pears..
I inquired about Laser and she was all for it..and said it is better to start as soon as possible, 2 times a week for 2 weeks, one treatment a week after that for 3 weeks. the cost is obviously a lot better to take compared to surgery. And if she used it on her own foot..lol, all kidding aside, I know the Benefits of it, I've seen it before used on other reasons for pets.
As for my job, I am too far away, am the only one job coded there, and do the job of 4 people. My LOA was denied. In the end, it is what it is, ..and if helping to care for my grandmother also, who DOES have Macular and going blind is not good enough..well, the decision of almost 9 years in a company that in the end no longer cares of their associates, is easier to take to walk away, I am just undecided on the HOW.
It does help writing here also, it is almost like a journal, and it is helpful to know I am talking to others who faced the same as I, not many can understand. They know my passion for animals, and rescue, but they'd never understand fully what this is involving. 2 days of walking around smelling like pee, looking like a train wreck..lol, FINALLY took a shower last night..so if I felt like Uck, I know Littlefoot did too when he tore up that cage earlier and was happy when I cleaned it.
Thanks ladies.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 8, 2013 17:15:28 GMT -7
What about the Prednisone, Cera? Did the vet put LittleFoot back on the original dose due to the sign of pain you saw during the taper? The taper of the Prednisone is to test for signs of pain to see if the swelling is down. Pain = swelling = more time on steroid. Obviously, the vet agreed that there was pain since she increased the dose of the Tramadol. Please let us know what she said about the Prednisone. I'm very glad that you're starting the laser treatments - they can be very helpful. Are you expressing LittleFoot's bladder? Or he releasing urine on his own when you take him outside? Usually when they don't have bladder control, they don't know when they have to go. This is the position for using a sling: Hope you see a poop soon! Let us know what's happening with the Prednisone.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 8, 2013 19:44:20 GMT -7
Update,.. My husband took him out tonight, and he came in.. Littlefoot had a bowel, Oh Good grief, I was happy to see poop.. Lord I need to one day write a book... That was without the Colace my vet said to give, I did not want to give him a dose so late at night in case of a mess, because I was unsure what to expect. His last bowel movement was Friday, so I am wondering if I should go ahead and at least give him one a day to help him pass his bowels. Seeing my husband was holding him, and when I checked, it felt like he was still pushing, but nothing else came out. His prednisone is still 1/2 a pill a day, but I will be making an apt with my vet for Laser treatment, so I will speak with her on it more. I know reading the forums on here of other's, and the links is a fountain of information. Oddly, My vet is not on the internet, in that, she is old school, to get a picture of her is pulling teeth. So I knew when I brought up this website, she would not have an idea, but I still asked her if she heard of it. I know the one Lady who works there is the one who does all facebook updates, etc.. so I know if it comes down to it, she will have Bobbie look it up. I told her your site has a lot of info on here. But I also know she has treated dogs for disc issues in the past also, she was realistic, but so darn hopeful for our sake Saturday that LittleFoot had still use of his tail and right leg, so Monday when we went in, her heart, as well as ours sank. I am looking into a Doggie Stroller, not for walks, but at least he can be higher up and see us, and I can move him to the frontroom during the day. He is resting much better since we upped the dose of tramadol. I honestly would love to get a figure 8 sling for him. I know he has no control of bladder, that I know of, but it seems he knows when he has to go outside, and pees when we take him, he sniffed a bit earlier, but lost interst.. when he DOES pee, he seems almost surprised it is coming out. Buying baby wipes tomorrow to help keep him clean. I am thinking of starting a facebook page, Little Foots Journey.. I've had people offer to help, As soon as I set it up, I am selling Jewlery in a candle, I hate taking money, But I do not mind selling something for it..lol His Sister has a facebook page, Nothing Like Sable Gerber, who went to Furball High, it is only fair he now gets his own page. Thank you ladies for the encouragement, and being here for the rest of us.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 8, 2013 21:01:29 GMT -7
Why tempt side effects of stomach pain, diarrhea, or cramping with Colace when pumpkin does not carry any of these, is nutritious and does help if you believe the stools are a bit too firm. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. If you have not seen LIttleFoot sniff and then pee, he likel does not have bladder control. Leaking on you when ifted is another sign of lack of bladder control and the necessity to go in and get a hands on expressing lesson first thing in the am....this is a health issue to be prompt with. Let us know what you observe.. if he has bladder control OR that you got an expressing lesson. The pet strolleris a very good idea to keep him with you as you move about the house. Do know all the caveats of using a stroller....check out this information: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htmIf you are seeing signs of pain, it is clearly not time to be on a taper of Pred at 1/2 pred (2.5mg) 1x a day. There is not sufficient steroid to help to deal with inflammation still existing in the spinal cord. He needs to be back on an anti-inflammatory level of Pred (5mg 2x a day). It is important to speedily address this issue and get help for LIttleFoot since you said he did yelp in pain.
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 8, 2013 21:15:48 GMT -7
Hi Cera,
Very glad to hear that LittleFoot had a bowel movement! My Tyler didn't go for 5 days after his disc rupture but once he did he was able to go after that with no problem. Try sweet potato and adding water to his kibble.. He may like that better than pumpkin... Tyler hates pumpkin too but loves sweet potato.. Make sure she doesn't give him an enema if that comes up in the future because that would be dangerous movement to his disc..
It would make more sense to have LittleFoot's Tramadol doses be the same,.. For example my 12 pound dog, Tyler, was on 25mg every 8 hours. 1 and 1/2 tablet in the morning and 1/4 tablet for the afternoon and evening leaves him with little pain relief during the afternoon and evening hours.. Just a suggestion for better pain coverage.. : )
Also it would be a good idea to discuss going back to the original anti inflammatory dose of the Prednisone so it can continue it's work on the swelling that is causing the pain.. Continuing to use the taper dose is defeating the purpose..
Have you discussed the Sucralfate with your Vet yet? Is LittleFoot eating any better?
I certainly feel for your situation with your Mom going blind, caring for LittleFoot with his IVDD with a long term job not cooperating with you is very hard to cope with.. I wish better days for you and your family, of course including LittleFoot.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 9, 2013 20:35:42 GMT -7
Update,.. I never had a chance to give any meds to him for constipation, the other night when he went for his last walk, Tim brought him in and he passed 2 little poops. They were solid. He plain outright does NOT like Pumpkin nor sweet potatoes. However, I decided to wait on the Colace. and while Little man does not like pumpkin, I got a taste of it down him this morning. By noon, flood gates opened and he went. However, he passed more this evening as well as a bit ago, and now it is straight out runny. Sigh.. Did I mention stinky?
But tonight also was the first night he ate everything on his dish, however, he is not eating his regular food, so I may pick up a bag of blue buffalo and see if I can entice him on something drier, and in the end, better for him. The vet said 1 1/2 tab of pain med am, 1/4 afternoon 1/4 pm. I knew right off I would cut the am does back to be able to better spread that out for coverage. It took a bit out of him tonight on this last outing, only because he pood more, and as I supported him, and was wipling his bottom.. and I KNOW it is too soon, He lifted that tail up as I cleaned hm, I stopped in shock, he lowered it a bit, when I praised him, it went BACK up a bit and wagged. Tim took him out and he lifted the tail again, and did pee and poo..and wagged the tail. I never been so happy..lol But I know it is way too soon. He leaks, mainly when he is asleep, but when awake, he tells us he want out. I noticed him sniffing the ground now also. And he did so again on his last walk. I will be calling the vet however to set up Laser Therapy, Looks like that will start Friday. But pain wise, he is doing way better, as I said, tonight was a bit more because we cleaned him, and I think it was more of an upset tummy, because as I held him to wipe him, he let out gas, and then more poo..So Now I think I went from constipation to this, and will look on how to firm it up for him He is highly alert, and now has a voice again..well, sometimes. lol But I need to settle the gas issue. I also noticed I was lightly messing with one leg, and he stopped and looked down at it and me.
All I know is we have a ways to go, but it gives me hope. AND a Kind lady is giving me a stroller, brand new. Don't get me wrong, I AM realistic..but hope is hope, and after the day I had, I'll take hope when I can get it. Off to look up suggestions on diarrhea, all else fails, I'll be speaking to the clinic tomorrow anyways. Off I go, I have a busy day tomorrow.. seeing my husbands car just decided to finally die due to a transmission..I have to be up early to deal with work and the car..ugh. But his tail WAGGED! More then once!
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 9, 2013 21:24:10 GMT -7
Hi Cera,
Happy about the tail wag!! : ) Great news about the stroller!
Let the Vet know he is showing signs of GI distress with the diarrhea, he should be put on Sucralfate ASAP along with continuing the Pepcid AC as you have been doing. Best not to wait on this.
It's not a good idea to change his food during his recovery because it makes it hard to tell whether his tummy upset and diarrhea are from a food change or the serious side effects from Prednisone..
Good luck with the car...
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 10, 2013 6:09:25 GMT -7
Paulina, I called the vet this morning, and left a message. But I have an appt this afternoon to start Laser Therapy. I have a few concerns anyways, while I do not believe he has full bladder control, he knows when he has to go outside, As for the food, he never was on a constant food, he had his normal kibble, but he has always ate..(I know..I have a grandmother here.. lol) people food, and has a cast iron stomach. Which is why I am thinking a different kibble..I know years ago when I was sick, normal things I ate, I had zero interest in. I noticed that with him, things he use to turn a nose up, interest him now.
And reality is, I'd rather have him eat, so I am pretty sure this is a med related issue, and as of this morning when my husband took him out (No accidents over night, and tail lifted again to poo) , his stool was beginning to clump again. Last night was the first time he ate as much as he usually does since Friday.
But I am pretty sure Dr T will be sending me home with another med for his tummy now. I am beginning to look like a pharmacy again..between my Mom's pup and LitleFoot..we can possibly open one now.
But I was wondering what food is good to help firm his stool up. And if I should..is Yogurt good? Cream cheese, cottage cheese?
I AM also going to have her show me this afternoon how to express his bladder..while he seems to know he needs to go out when he has to pee..I know helping him would be beneficial all around, and for his health.
Sorry this is all over the place.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 10, 2013 7:30:33 GMT -7
Hi, Cera
We usually recommend pumpkin for both constipation and diarrhea (the amount of water makes the difference) but I know you said LittleFoot won't touch pumpkin. Some dogs have problems digesting dairy products so I'd stay away from them.
Be sure to get the Sucralfate on board as Pauliana advised. He may have a "cast iron stomach" but being on steroids can cause severe problems and you don't want to add to his GI tract difficulties by giving him something that will worsen the condition. Try to stay with his regular kibble or foods that he's used to. I know you want him to eat but he needs to get his system to settle down.
Very good on getting the lesson on expressing the bladder. Any urine that remains in the bladder can lead to urinary tract infections or if he's overflowing, the bladder can stretch out of shape.
Please let us know how his first laser treatment goes. And what the vet prescribes for his tummy.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 10, 2013 9:44:48 GMT -7
Hi Cera, It is never too soon to have hope, and I would have been cheering that tail wagging too, even if it woke up the neighbours. I hope that you both find that the laser treatment is beneficial, and the LittleFoot keeps on making progress
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 11, 2013 10:24:38 GMT -7
Many dogs same as people have an intolerance for dairy. So unless he has beena regular consumer of yogurt and suffers no gas, etc. from it, it would NOT use yogurt if this is something new to him. With all the meds he is on, not it not the time to change up foods. If there is a reaction you want to know the correct action to take and not muddy the waters with a temporarty food change problem vs. a deadly meds reaction.
Let us know how you are doing with expressing. Staying drying in between potty times?
Let us know what the vet prescribed for the tummy.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 12, 2013 19:20:21 GMT -7
As I sit here and write this..I am in between despair and hope..and out right mental exhaustion. So where do I start... Thursday was suppose to be LittleFoots first day of laser Therapy. He was alert, perky, and my mom came over, he was excited to see her. He still had diarrhea, so I cleaned him up. I then gave him a pill, which went down the wrong damn way..he started choking, No fault of his own, my finger was scraped, so between blood all over, him foaming, I tossed a shirt over him, my mom grabbed my stuff and I flew to the Vets. By the time we got there, he was sitting on my mom's lap, ok..(I am only 10 minutes away) They checked him to see if he was alright, they got water down him ok..The Dr listened to his lungs. I should have STOPPED right then and there.. But I asked about expressing, which she did, and showed me..(Still haven't mastered that) I also told her about his tummy, his refusel to eat and his refusal to take the pills..and I asked about that stuff. I am familiar with Carafate, Sassy had it a few times when she was alive. The Dr asked me if I wanted pill form or liquid. I chose liquid..he has enough pills. She went ahead and gave him a dose. By this time it was 2:30, My mom had left groceries in their car, and I asked the Vet if I should just reschedule till morning. The appt was for 3:30. She said she could still do the treatment, and seeing I had to get my mom back, I left him there, knowing BY 3:30 he would be ready to come home..or she would have waited until I got there so I could see how they did the treatment. But I figured why wait, and I'd be there for all the other times. My Mom's car however, broke down, so I had to get them home..run back, get my gramma, and then go for littleman. he did a lot of sleeping. I did not get any pills down him except a Pepcid and a 1'4 tramadol. he threw up that night. Friday, I called the vets again, and she asked if I could administer [nausea] shots..I use to. She prescribed 3 doses One per day.. for nausea. I use to give shots, and she made the mention it could sting. OMFG..she was NOT kidding..even asking God for strength did not give me courage to mess with it again. He did eat Friday morning.. as ODD as this sounds, he was licking my finger, (The one that was bitten) And it hit me..he ate canned food for upset tummy and an egg.. But by last night.. he wanted no part of food again, not real food. Sigh.. So today, Saturday, he had an appt for Laser.. he did not eat, but his bowel movement was brown, and I noted two clumps, as if it were forming [poop]. So we went in and she did the Laser treatment, I had brought the shot with me, packed in ice, seeing it is suppose to be kept cold to begin with.. But OMG, did he yelp.. Screw the other 2 doses..I will NOT do that to him. We got home, and he slept for awhile..However.. His poop is a runny green now,..the Vet closed before I could call them back. So I called the Animal Hospital. Ugh.. He IS drinking water. And he was awake earlier, but all he is doing tonight is sleeping, when he is awake, I know the little guy has to be in discomfort, but no real classic signs of pain or severe pain. Did I mention he has relexes in both back legs? His tail still lifts halfway, and last night he was wagging the heck out of it?? But as of right now..Im been between despair, depression..and out right exhaustion. My vet said No Pupperoni, No Liver Cheese..and no this, no that..but OMG, if this dog EATS I do not care as long as he does EAT..and what he may eat now, he will not touch later at all. I can not place a thing in his mouth, he sounds like a duck, acts like he is choking and drools salvia and foams..YET, My Fibber McGee here ATE broken hard treats and an egg, and canned food just fine yesterday morning. And did I mention my other dog now has diarrhea, which she NEVER has? I am at the point this guy needs full rest of ANY damn medication, until it is out of his system, and I start slowly over and figure out what is causing what. My last dog could not tolerate prednisone..she was suppose to have a full pill, all I was able to give her was a 1/4..had she had the full dose, she may have lived a bit longer. I am rambiling at all of this..but I have yet to even get my paperwork in order, seeing I am unemployed. trying to handle Littleman, and all of the other things.. Last night was the first night I had a full nights sleep, we have a mattress we needed to throw away, seeing we got a newer one, I've yet to see my bedroom in a week. So we tossed the mattress on the floor and lttlemans cage is next to it in the frontroom at night. But his green diarheaa spooks me.. I know the animal hospital is open. and I very well may end up there tomorrow. For now, he is sleeping peacefully. and oddly..before all the stuff happened on Thursday, while he wasn't eating the best, nor taking his meds the best..littleman acted in no pan, was perky and laert and ..well..his tail wags and he has relexes in both legs. I am a mental basket.. and all I can do is lie next to him, he rests his head on my arm, and all I can do is whisper to him..and fall asleep on the kitchen floor like I did Thursday night with his head on my shoulder. Good thing I am little to fit in that cage partially.. lol
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 12, 2013 20:14:27 GMT -7
Cera, you do have so much on your plate right now, I'm sorry this is happening.
Cheese and other high fat foods can cause diarahea that is what your vet does not want you to give them. This is in order to cut out all the variables that might be the cause of loose stools. But if it takes one small piece of cheese to get his meds in him do it. A better option if LIttleFoot will go for it is to hide the pills in a piece of sticky ripe banana or even sweet potato microwaved til soft. My dogs love both of these and don't question pilling.
I'm not familiar with green poop. Runny is a sign of GI tract disturbance. Glad to hear there are the beginnings of a formed stool. Runny could be from changing foods, eating too high a fat/oil foods OR likely is a danger sign of Prednisone. Let us know if the Carafate liquid along with Pepcid AC is helping not just with runny poop, but with not eating tomorrow AM at breakfast.
Can you ask if the taper can be speeded up to the every other day since you have not observed any pain? Of course it is only til you also cut back or stop the pain meds that you know if there is still swelling going on.
What is the exact name of the nausea shot? Is he still on Colace?
Sleeping part way in his crate is gotta be bad for your back and maybe a little dangerous that Little could sneak out while you are asleep.
Hang in there… you know we are always here with a shoulder to lean on.
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cera
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Post by cera on Oct 12, 2013 21:24:29 GMT -7
Update.. Little guy woke up, and woke up starving, I had made a dish earlier for him of rice and turkey. I could not hand It fast enough to him, he ate the bulk of it. I am staying away from beef, which is what my vet said also. Which rules out his normal dry dog food right now.. BUT his stool went back to brown. The Vets at the hospital said it was more then likely his body getting rid of the bile..etc..
The shot she gave him was cerenia?? All I know is when she said it would sting, she meant it, he yelped like heck.
He has not been on any normal meds for the last few days. Thursday he had his Pepcid, his pain pill and muscle relaxer in the AM Thursday afternoon, he had a 1/4 pain pill, he choked on the muscle relaxer and we got him to the vets, she gave him the Carafate, in liquid..and she gave him the max dose at that point, and sent me home with a bottle..which is 5cc's 2 times a day..2 hours before any other meds, OR 1 hour after his meds. Thursday night, I was able to get 1/4 of his pain killer in him.
Friday.. about zilch..
Saturday.. 5cc's this morning of Carafate, went to the vets, she gave the shot of cerenia. And that is all I been able to give him. He slept most of the day after we got home, other then to go out.
I never gave the Colace..at all. I did give him a taste of pumpkin that Wednesday morning, by noon, it started a darn flood gate I been fighting since. Baby wipes, puppy pads, a box of detergent and loads, and loads of laundry...
My back is shot from walmart.. and I did not intentionally fall asleep..that was just how exhausted I was..and honestly, he is not the type to run off when he has a willing body to be next to. Littleman always was a snuggler. Last night was the first night we got more then 4 hours of sleep, and on a mattress..(Albit on a floor..but a real mattress! ) lol
It is now a quarter after midnight, littleman is fed, clean, dry..his cage next to "Our bed", and sound asleep.
I am hopeful tomorrow will be better, and I can get the Carafate in him, a Pepcid, and his pain pill at the least.if there is one thing about him, he is a fighter, and feisty, and determined. But I AM hopeful..I am noticing he is sniffing the outside when we go out, his tail wags more..not all the time or full force, but wags it does, he has knee relexes, and if I touch his back, lower part, he turns and looks.
I know how quickly it can turn back..but I am still praying..as is my friends. AND I have a BRAND NEW stroller I need to pick up, some lady is giving me, I can not thank her enough for this gift. And thank yous for letting me ramble..
10:27 am... he had a dose of carafate, and I got a pepcid down him..he did eat more Turkey and Rice, but I tried his pain med..Lol..Nope, no disguising that sucker, even crushed in water, he spits it out and acts like Donald Duck again. I have tried numerous methods on disguising the pills, all to no avail, seeing he is not interested in a lot of the foods, and I am wasting more meds trying.
His poop is more yellowish brown, still runny.. and he is peeing..and right now, after he figured the water dish was safe, again..(Tried the meds with a syringe also..) he drank more water, gave me a look and is asleep.
I swear I will need to take stock in hair dye after this.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 13, 2013 9:29:24 GMT -7
Wow Cera, you and Little Foot have been run through the mill the last couple of days! I agree with Paula, ask your Vet about tapering the prednisone faster and stopping or switching the pains meds too. Tramadol tastes like **** it is very bitter, and now LittleFoot knows it, no matter how you try and hide it (he's very smart!). Having a dog go down with IVDD is like bring home a newborn baby for the first time - no sleep, worrying about every little movement and noise, obsession with pee and poop, and did I mention the no good sleep? You CAN do this honey, and we will do whatever we can to help. Focus on his wagging little tail, and his sweet little face, and hang in there!! (((hugs)))
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