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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Feb 27, 2021 23:19:18 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Not sure what to do next] Hi, thank you so much for hosting this forum. Here are the answers to the questions in the suggested registration thread and then I’ll give some more info below. 1. My dog is ~ 20lbs. I’ve been giving him vetprofen leftover from his first episode until we can see the vet Monday. It’s 25mg twice a day, started morning of 2/25. For tonight’s dose I gave him 10mg Pepcid AC 30 min before his dose. [Moderator's note: please do not edit 20 lbs. Vetprofen as of 2/25: 25mg 2x/day for how many days? until stop to test for pain____neuro____ Pepcid AC 10mg 2x/day]
2. My name is Kelly and my dog’s name is Charlie. He is probably a poodle dachshund mix but we got him as a rescue at 8 weeks. He’s almost 6 now. 3. We got a stage four or five IVDD ruptured disc diagnosis last March (2020) and he had two emergency surgeries a few days after the incident. He had lost use of his back end. He regained bathroom control in May/June and was just learning to walk again in Jan/Feb of 2021. 4. We haven’t seen a vet yet. We are not comfortable transporting him anywhere and not confident the emergency vets will be careful with him, so our at home vet is coming Monday 3/1 at 11am. We hope she can give us better medication. 5. Charlie was clearly in a lot of pain on 2/24 and 2/25. The vetprofen is definitely taking the edge off and he can sleep most of the time but he does have a tight tummy, often can’t get comfortable and seems distressed. Does not get as excited as he used to and tail wagging has been slowly disappearing since 2/24.6. He won’t really drink on his own so we’re syringing water to keep him hydrated. He doesn’t want his dog food so he’s eating plain chicken and does get excited for that still so far. Poops seem ok considering he’s only eating chicken. 7. He couldn’t completely walk before this latest episode and he certainly can’t now. He could hold himself up to pee and wag his tail and he can’t do that anymore. He can barely use his back legs to hold himself up and he surely doesn’t know where they are anymore . 8. He can only do a small stream of urine on his own and we have just started expressing him again for the first time since April 2021 which is really making us sad. So far no leaking but I feel he has kind of gone downhill in the last few days so we are expecting that may be next. Overall we don’t want to do surgery again because it was not completely successful the first time and the recovery was so difficult for him. We know he’s losing function right now but the vetprofen is keeping him 80-90% restful so we’re hoping it’s not as bad this time as it was last time. I’m hoping the conservative treatment route could help him to regain some of what he had already regained the first time - mainly bladder and bowel control and the little leg function he had gotten back. Am I delusional?? The vet comes Monday and I just want to know what we should ask of her, more meds? Different meds? Thank you so much for your time. Your website was incredibly helpful our first time around and I hate that this has happened again but we’re so grateful for this resource. Edit: he lost bladder control overnight but doesn’t seem to be in pain
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Post by Ann Brittain on Feb 28, 2021 6:59:43 GMT -7
Welcome back to Dodgerslist.
Since you've been through this before, you may be familiar with much of the material, but a review may be helpful to remind you of the procedure. It is most important that you adhere to the strict crate rest guidelines. No activity except to go out to pee/poop, no sitting on your lap, no getting in your bed or other movements that could injury Charlie further.
When our Buster was recovering, we found that he would drink low sodium or, if you can find it no sodium chicken broth. It's good that he's eating the chicken but lack of anything with fiber could cause constipation. You might try giving him a tablespoon of plain (no spices) pureed pumpkin. If he'll eat it, it might keep his digestive tract working normally.
It's understandable that you're reluctant to have Charlie go through another surgery. Hopefully getting his pain under control and getting him some thing to reduce any swelling will be enough to get him back on track.
Other moderates will also respond with guidance on what medications to discuss with your vet tomorrow. Getting the right dosage and properly administering them is key to helping Charlie Heal.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 28, 2021 8:17:36 GMT -7
Kelly, I'm very sorry to hear that Charlie is having another disc episode. I do understand your reluctance to take him to the ER but you really need to do that today ASAP this morning. Charlie has lost neuro function and he is quite clearly telling you that he's in pain. This cannot wait until tomorrow for the at-home vet. He's now lost bladder control and you're no longer seeing a tail wag, which could be a sign that he's also losing deep pain sensation. Tell the ER hospital staff/tech when you get there that this is a spinal issue and they must carry Charlie with his spine horizontal and be very careful when moving him. Secure his crate in the car and pad it well with rolled up towels/blankets to prevent him from jostling around too much during the car ride. Be sure to tell the ER vet that you've given Vetprofen. If the vet feels that a stronger anti-inflammatory such as Prednisone is now medically necessary, such a switch can be made without the usual 4-7 day washout period by prescribing a second stomach protector - Sucralfate. Sucralfate together with Pepcid AC is a good way to protect when a NSAID such as Vetprofen is switch to a steroid such as Prednisone without the usual washout period. You should in fact advocate for a switch to a steroid due to the loss of neuro function that has occurred He really needs a stronger anti-inflammatory than Vetprofen. Also be sure to tell the vet that Charlie won't drink water. That may be due to his pain but it may also be a serious side effect of the Vetprofen. Usually three pain meds are necessary to get the difficult pain of IVDD completely under control. Tramadol as a general pain med, Methocarbamol for the pain of muscle spasms and Gabapentin for nerve pain. All three pain meds need to be prescribed three times a day. Surgery is not the only treatment available for IVDD. Conservative treatment of 8 weeks of very strict crate rest can also allow the damaged disc to heal. Neither surgery nor conservative care heals the damaged nerves - only time can heal nerve damage. SURGERYThe purpose of surgery is to take the pressure off of the spinal cord by removing the disc material causing the compression. Surgical decompression allows a normal blood supply to return to the compressed spinal cord and for neurologic recovery to begin by the body self-healing nerves. CONSERVATIVESeeks to relieve swelling/compression of the spinal cord with an anti-inflammatory. Over time the hope is that disc material where it should not be will shrink back enough so that pain resolves and nerves can start to self repair. More excellent details about the difference between conservative vs. surgery: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/ dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/We'll be awaiting an update from you after the exam. Healing prayers for Charlie.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Feb 28, 2021 12:50:13 GMT -7
[Please do not edit this post. Moderator is currently reading and marking post to organize the chain of events and the date each happened on. Please add missing data in a new post in this same thread. Thanks! ]
Thank you so much for your responses and prayers. We took Charlie to the vet [2/28] around 11am. They gave him a shot of buprenorphine, and a prescription for ✙Gabapentin, Carprofen, and ✙Methocarbamol. Luckily this morning (before the visit) he did eat some of his regular dog food and drank some water too. We are still waiting for the Methocarbamol to get filled but have given him the other two. He’s just dazed, panting on and off, and kind of drooling which is what he did last year after getting this shot for IVDD [?] and what they said to expect. Hopefully he will fall asleep soon. Are we missing anything? Just keeping him on crate rest and we will work to get his bladder and bowel expressions on a regular schedule. Are the dog belly wraps worth exploring?
[Moderator's note: please do not edit 20 lbs. 6 y.o. Vetprofen (carprofen) as of 2/25: 25mg 2x/day for 15 days; 3/15 test stop: _pain/_neuro ✙gabapentin 100mg 3x/day ✙methocarbamol 250mg 3x/day Pepcid AC 10mg 2x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 28, 2021 15:39:35 GMT -7
Kelly, could you fill in the details of his med list so we know how to comment How many days is the carprofen Rx for? Gabapentin how many mgs each dose and how often are to to give? If given a range, then tell what you are actually giving.
Diaper and wraps are a last resort or only while you are re-perfecting your skill. Diapers can cause a rash and anxiety for the dog having to have body waste on his skin/fur. The proficiency level to reach is --- Expressing ever 2-3 hrs until you see he is staying dry. Then move up to evert 3-4 hrs. The goal is every 6 to 8 hrs. --- Re-learning to feel for the bladder. As it empties it moves back into the hip area and becomes small. The goal is to have the one hand almost able to feel a very flat bladder. This way it takes longer to refill. Extends the time you need to express again. Let us know how things are going for you. What was the name of the shot given today? EMAIL ALERTS
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Feb 28, 2021 16:24:15 GMT -7
The shot was buprenorphine.
Carprofen is 25mg, 1 tablet every 12 hours and they gave us 30. So 15 days.
Gabapentin is 100mg, 1 capsule every 8 hours and they gave us 120 with 1 refill, so 40 days to start.
Methocarbamol is 500mg, 1/2 tablet every 8 hours and they gave us 90 with 1 refill, so I guess that is 60 days to start.
Thank you so much. We will keep at the bladder expression. We tried at 3:30 pm today and had no success so are about to try again.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 28, 2021 18:49:01 GMT -7
Kelly, let us know if pain is fully managed with the two pain meds (gabapentin & methocarbamol). The buprenorphine shot lasts for about 8 hrs and by now has worn off. You may find it handy to review some bladder expressing techniques PLUS how to express for poop: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-careSNIFF and PEE test The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control is with the “sniff and pee test.” If perchance control would be starting to come back, give the test a try. Carry him outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. See if there is a release of urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. A dog may not like you expressing if control is coming back. You should continue to do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. NOTE: When the bladder is full, it fills the entire abdomen area so any pressure should release urine if bladder control is not yet back. You may need to hold the pressure for a little longer than you think you would. As the bladder empties, it gets smaller and can slip away from you. You’ll need to find it again. Sometimes it moves back by the pelvic area. Keep pressing until the bladder feels flat, almost like your hands are touching. Let us know what you observe.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Feb 28, 2021 19:15:24 GMT -7
Ok thank you! We’ve been going to the same spot he always goes to make sure he has a chance to try before we express. I was able to successfully express him around 6pm and will do it once more at 10ish with poop expression too before turning in for the night. Hopefully we’ll have a dry night. He seems to be ok so far with the shot wearing off but I’ll continue to monitor through tonight and update in the morning. Thank you again for all your help. 💙
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 28, 2021 19:18:35 GMT -7
Kelly, good to hear things are going well with his care. Hope you all get a good night's sleep!
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 1, 2021 17:17:10 GMT -7
Things are going a little better today!
He is drinking on his own from a bowl which is a huge win. We hold it for him so he is comfortable and not straining. He is also interested in a lot of foods which is awesome, but not his dog food dry or soaked in water. He does not like pumpkin. Will sweet potato, or banana help to bulk up his poops? They are pretty loose right now which is hard for us to control, even with expressing we have had two accidents so far.
Pain management seems pretty good. He is back to his happy self mostly, and even took a couple steps forward outside with his front legs which he hasn’t done since Wednesday. Of course we stopped him right away to restrict motion but he seems more interested in moving than he has all week. He slept great through the night, so I am thinking we are ok on dosage and timing right now.
Thank you again for all the help!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 1, 2021 17:55:05 GMT -7
Kelly, good to hear pain in control. What is worrisome is not know the exact cause of loose poop. It could be due to change in food. What are you feeding him? Fatty oily foods can cause loose poop. It can be likely due to carprofen damage and thus one should assume the worst. If poop does not begin to firm up quickly, phone the vet and advocate for an Rx to a 2nd tummy protector. SUCRALFATE works in a different way to bandaid the damaged areas of the stomach lining. Read about sucralfate so you know the timing with food, with Pepcid AC and why you would be advocating for it. PUMPKIN Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. NOTE: alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet or white potato. One teaspoon of pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight--To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day.-- To firm up the stool add 2 teaspoons of alternative high fiber food 1x a day to kibble.Bananas with bright yellow skins, a very few brown speckles contain electrolytes and other nutrients. Diarrhea tends to deplete these nutrients. By eating bananas, some of those nutrients are restored. Green bananas are hard to digest.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 1, 2021 20:23:27 GMT -7
Ok, thank you! I will work on that and see what we can do. He has been eating only plain chicken but we got him to eat chicken with rice for dinner and we will get those other foods for tomorrow morning.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 1, 2021 21:25:16 GMT -7
Kelly, dogs on IVDD meds should not consume fatty or oil foods as they can cause diarrhea. Charlie's body is doing a lot of repair jobs right and he needs proper nutrition. Chicken and rice are deficient in many nutrients dogs need.
See if you can slowly transition him back to kibble over the course of several days. Maybe some homemade meat broth (no salt, no onion) will inspire him to eat his balanced kibble. Simmer a hamburger patty with water to cover til cooked. Cool in fridge, remove fat disc from top of jellied broth. Sightly warm the broth for an inviting aroma and drizzle over his kibble. Use the cooked hamburger meat to crumble a teaspoon or two on top of his meal for extra tastiness. More than this small amount of meat can unbalance the kibble ratio of nutrients.
Let us know how his eating goes during the day tomorrow.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 1, 2021 21:52:44 GMT -7
Definitely! When we went through this last year, he would not even drink water without being syringe fed or eat anything besides tiny pieces of white bread for a few days, so the fact he will drink from a bowl and eat chicken so far is a big deal for us! We got him to eat a few teaspoons of pumpkin just now and we will add some more healthy foods tomorrow. Hopefully we can get him back on his dry dog food, but if not we’ll move to canned dog food which worked last year too.
Thank you again. I will update again tomorrow. We really appreciate all of the guidance.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 2, 2021 4:42:21 GMT -7
Quick update: Charlie had diarrhea twice over night and the second time with blood in his stool. His last dose of vetprofen was 11pm.
Spoke to the emergency vet and we are discontinuing the vetprofen and watching for improvements and less blood, otherwise we will bring him back into the ER vet.
[Moderator's note: please do not edit 20 lbs. 6 y.o. Vetprofen (carprofen) as of 2/25: 25mg 2x/day for 5 days; 3/2 stop due to bloody diarrhea: gabapentin 100mg 3x/day methocarbamol 250mg 3x/day Pepcid AC 10mg 2x/day needs 2nd GI protector sucralfate due to bloody diarrhea]
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 2, 2021 8:36:49 GMT -7
Since there has been damage to the GI tract as evidenced by blood in the stool, Sucralfate should be prescribed today to help in the healing. With some dogs, Pepcid AC is not enough to protect against the side effects of NSAIDs. With two stomach protectors on board, both Pepcid AC and Sucralfate, it may be possible to get Charlie back on Vetprofen.
Continue with the Pepcid AC 2x/day for a few more days as Vetprofen will remain in the system for awhile.
Since Vetprofen has been stopped for the time being, you'll need to be on the alert for any sign of pain returning. If you see any sign of pain, you'll need to alert the vet so the pain meds can be adjusted. Tramadol as a general pain med can be added.
Healing prayers for Charlie.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 3, 2021 7:03:16 GMT -7
Charlie seems to be doing ok off the vetprofen. The bleeding stopped yesterday thank goodness and his appetite and thirst are still good. He’s eating a mixture of chicken and rice and his dry dog food. He’s taken nicely to the pumpkin too.
We would need to take him into the vet again for them to prescribe sucralfate or tramadol so we are going to wait for now so we don’t have to transport him. He seems comfortable but if we notice any signs of pain we will take him back in.
Expressing his bladder has gotten a bit more difficult. I think he may be stopping me from doing it. I’m hopeful that means he is regaining control, as when I say “go potty” or he sniffs, he moves his abdominal muscles trying to go but nothing comes out.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 3, 2021 8:14:54 GMT -7
Good news that the bleeding has now stopped and no sign of pain returning as of yet.
There should be no reason to take Charlie into the vet in order to have his meds adjusted. Vets who understand the importance of strict crate rest with conservative care will agree to take phone updates and adjust meds that way.
You might want to speak to the vet about doing a test for pain/swelling in a day or so. Swelling usually takes 7-30 days to resolve. Usually a vet will call for a stop of meds in 7-14 days, although Charlie wasn't on the Vetrofen for 7 days. The only way to tell whether the swelling is now gone is to stop the pain meds and see if pain returns. If no pain, then you would have proof that the swelling has resolved and no meds are needed at all. Should pain return which would mean there is still swelling, then all meds can be re-started again. At that point should pain return which means there is still swelling and therefore a need for an anti-inflammatory, see if the vet will agree to starting Vetprofen again with the addition of TWO stomach protectors, BOTH Pepcid AC and Sucralfate.
Keep taking Charlie out for a sniff and pee test every day or so. Hopefully, his bladder control is returning.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 3, 2021 8:24:16 GMT -7
Ok, thank you! I was just able to get an appointment with our at home vet this afternoon. The ER vet wasn’t able to do over the phone since it wasn’t the same person we saw Sunday. Hopefully the at home visit today will help us get things straightened out.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 3, 2021 8:29:06 GMT -7
Great! Just keep in mind in the future that any vet at the hospital should be able to pull Charlie's medical records and adjust meds. It shouldn't have to be the specific vet who examined Charlie. So if this should happen again, advocate strongly that a vet pull Charlie's records and do what's necessary. The only time they should have to see Charlie again would be if his neuro function should worsen which would necessitate an exam.
Hope all goes well with the at-home vet today.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 3, 2021 23:51:20 GMT -7
The at home vet visit was super helpful. We’ve upped the ▲Gabapentin dose for Charlie to two capsules three times a day instead of one capsule. He’s already resting much better. She also prescribed some probiotic powder once a day with his food and an antibiotic for the diarrhea and we are staying off the vetprofen for now. Sticking with a bland diet until his digestion improves, she expects by Friday.
[Moderator's note: please do not edit 20 lbs. 6 y.o. Vetprofen (carprofen) as of 2/25: 25mg 2x/day for 5 days; 3/2 stop due to bloody diarrhea ▲gabapentin 200mg 3x/day methocarbamol 250mg 3x/day ✙Metronidazole 125mg 2x/day Pepcid AC 10mg 2x/day]
Antibiotic is ✙Metronidazole 250mg 1/2 tablet twice a day.
Charlie peed twice on his own in our final nightly outing! It was only about a teaspoon or tablespoon each time, but it seems clear he knows how to do it. He is really resistant to me expressing his bladder more than once an outing so he is having some leakage. Hopefully he continues to regain control.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 4, 2021 8:51:44 GMT -7
Good news on peeing on his own! Continue a quick express check after he pees until you are satisfied he is able to fully void his bladder.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 5, 2021 15:36:02 GMT -7
Charlie still seems comfortable and is eating and drinking. He hasn’t peed on his own since the tiny trickles he did he other night. I hope it wasn’t a fluke but rather just slowly returning ability. No more leaking for the last 36-48 hours and bladder expression is very difficult but we are managing. He seems resistant.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 5, 2021 15:45:51 GMT -7
Sometimes as bladder control begins to return dogs resist being expressed. This is likely what is going on with Charlie. Just continue to give him lots of opportunities to sniff and pee and then try to express afterwards until Charlie is able to completely empty his own bladder.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 11, 2021 20:06:51 GMT -7
[March 5: ] Ok, thanks a lot! We will keep at it.
Charlie has started panting a lot in the last couple days, but it doesn’t seem like pain. He’s not groaning, his activity level and spirits haven’t changed, and he is eating great. He won’t drink though, so we’ve been adding lots of water to his food. However, it isn’t enough water for his daily intake. Not sure if we will take him to the vet in the morning [3/12], but is there anything I could be missing as to why he might be panting? He will pant for a 5-10 minutes and then go to sleep. If you’re petting him he doesn’t pant. It’s almost more like stress and not pain? I don’t know. He’s also started peeing more on his own which is great, but still needs a lot of assistance. If y’all have any ideas they would be greatly appreciated!
He’s currently doing: Pepcid 2x/day Methocarbamol 3x/day Gabapentin 3x/day ➕Carprofen 1x/day
[Moderator's note: please do not edit 20 lbs. 6 y.o. Vetprofen (carprofen) as of 2/25: 25mg 2x/day for 5 days; 3/2 stop bloody diarrhea ➕ as of 3/10: 25mgs 1x/day for ? days gabapentin 200mg 3x/day methocarbamol 250mg 3x/day Metronidazole 125mg 2x/day STOPPED on 3/10 Pepcid AC 10mg 2x/day]
Edit - just wanted to add he is sleeping really well through the night, is calm, and not having accidents at night the last few days.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 11, 2021 22:34:10 GMT -7
Kelly, what date did carprofen resume at the lower dose of 25mgs 1x/day?
Is the Metronidazole 125mg 2x/day finished now?
Maybe there is no need of carprofen. One can't know unless the two pain meds (methocarbamol and gabapentin are stopped or backed off at the time of a full stop of carprofen. Has this been discussed? No one wants a dog on carprofen any point past the benefit of all painful swelling is gone.
Not drinking water is can be one of the adverse side effects of carprofen. Please provide details about the amount of water are mixing with his food. Provide detail of what kind of food you now feed (dry kibble, soaked kibble, canned food, etc). Let us know what your vet says in the morning. Hopefully things can be discussed over the phone so that the healing disc can be protected from a vehicle transport in.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 12, 2021 0:53:20 GMT -7
Last metronidazole was 3/10 AM First vetprofen was 3/10 lunchtime, so he’s only been on that two days now We are still feeding chicken and rice twice a day. Adding the probiotic powder to his food once a day. I add between 1/4 and 1/2 cup water each time. So he is getting 3/4-1c of water with his food.
I will definitely consult with the vet over the phone in the morning and I assume we will stop the vetprofen again and see if he starts drinking more. The vet only wanted him on it if he can tolerate it and if this is a side effect then it’s probably not worth it.
Thank you!!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 12, 2021 8:11:00 GMT -7
Do speak to the vet about stopping Vetprofen and also the pain meds so a test for pain/swelling can be made. Stopping the Vetprofen while leaving pain meds on board would make it difficult to see if there is still pain/swelling. The swelling may well be gone at this point but the only way to determine that is to stop the meds and see if pain returns. It usually takes 7-30 days for the swelling to resolve.
Panting can be due to anxiety or it can be a sign of pain. Panting can also be a side effect of the meds. Check if there is any other sign of pain that would confirm pain. ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves?
We'll be awaiting an update.
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Post by Kelly & Charlie on Mar 12, 2021 12:23:21 GMT -7
The vet has said she does not believe the panting is due to the vetprofen so we should continue it for now. She doesn’t believe his pain is completely managed right now. We will continue a couple more days and if there is no further reduction in panting we will head to the ER vet or followup with our regular vet Monday.
We are grateful his panting has certainly lessened this morning compared to yesterday. He has been able to take more naps today and slept through the night normally. I was reviewing my notes and the panting started [3/9] the night before starting vetprofen again.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 13, 2021 7:46:49 GMT -7
What did the vet say about the not wanting to drink issue? Did she think that also was not related to the Vetprofen? That is more of a concerning side effect than the panting would be. I'm confused about her statement that she doesn't believe his pain is completely managed right now and yet has not made any adjustments to pain meds. What signs of pain did she observe other than the possibility of the panting being due to pain? Tramadol can be added as a third pain med if there is still pain. Panting can be due to anxiety. If it's a side effect of any of the meds, it might be helpful to place a fan near but not pointed at the crate. Also a rice sock from the refrigerator can help them cool by laying their tummy along side of it. Fill a sock with 1-2 cups of rice and tie the end of the sock closed. Try a frozen broth ice cube to lick on. Those things will help cool him down. If there are no other signs of pain being observed other than the panting, I don't think you should go to the ER just for that. Transport to the vet involves risk of too much movement of the spine. Try to keep a happy voice and face around Charlie. Dogs are very sensitive and pick up on our feelings very easily. Tell him everything's OK and that he's getting better every day. And you believe it, too! To calm Charlie in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should mellow him/her. It also creates a den like feeling that dogs love. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Dogs: Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/us/Products/ADAPTIL-Calm-Home-Diffuser with dog pheromones Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. 3) Bach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid 5-herb combo to help with relaxation (Star of Bethlehem – Orithogalum umbellatum, Rock Rose – Helianthemum, Cherry Plum – Prunus cerasifera, Impatiens – Impatiens gladulifera, Clematis – Clematis vitalba) Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc. Consider some of these ideas: -- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising and only inside during conservative care. More details on strollers: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm--Caster wheels can be added to a wire crate so the crate can be wheeled from one room to the next so your dog can stay with you. -- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP writes: "According to the book, Stress in Dogs, by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day. Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall. To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a high-value food reward. Wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later and do it again until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give him his reward. " [NOTE: treats should be subtracted from the normal daily kibble ration so as not to gain weight during crate rest.] -- If your dog won’t get too excited seeing what’s happening outside, during the day try putting the crate on the coffee table or the dining room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from on high. -- Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows. -- Fill a Kong with soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the Kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube. Good thick low salt/no fat chicken broth is full of cartilage-building proteins and amino acids. Freeze it up into cubes for easy access as you need it. Fun and keeps the body hydrated: place cubes in a bowl for licking. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/tips-to-help-with-recovery-suite/
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