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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 27, 2013 12:31:57 GMT -7
I reviewed that site when I was looking online but felt they were a bit expensive. (Expensive? I, who bought a "Help 'Em Up" harness for Penny, an Eddie's Wheels cart for Roxie, had Roxie receive laser therapy, have Penny receiving laser therapy and will be adding acupuncture to her regimen shortly, who give Sarah Beth Sub-Q fluids for months [She was at end-stage kidney disease when we adopted her.], find tootsie grips too expensive???
Time to review my priorities. I had been thinking about adding some of the latex that one dips tool handles in to the bottom of the booties that I bought for a long-ago Rottie who refused to wear them. I'll add ToeGrips to my options. 
Thanks, stevieluv.
Jude
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 27, 2013 20:19:27 GMT -7
We will meet with the new vet on June 4th to see if acupuncture is appropriate for Penny. It was the earliest appt. we could get. I am hoping that he will be able to advise us about Penny's progress, as he will have hands on during that appointment. The acupuncture won't start on that date, as he will be just doing an assessment.
Penny is scheduled to skip her prednisone every other day, starting tomorrow. She's not in pain, but when I took her out this evening after supper, she was walking like she was drunk. Her left leg was worse than her right leg. Is it appropriate for her to go off prednisone now?
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 28, 2013 15:24:11 GMT -7
Penny's gait has been less wobbly today. It seems to be like her emotional progress from very fearful dog to calm and happy girl: baby steps forward and then regressions almost as many times. But the time came when the baby steps kept going forward with little backsliding.
Is this type of progress typical of these dogs?
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 28, 2013 16:42:16 GMT -7
Is the instability in her walk new? If so then contact the vet and she should likely stay on the Prednisone.
As for her emotional well-being, rescue dogs are so very different from those raised in a loving home as puppies. Nothing is normal or typical...or perhaps everything is normal. Just keep things as stable and upbeat around her as you can, create as much of a routine for her as you can. Remember that dogs are not humans and do not have the mental capacity to think and process as humans do. Dogs are pack animals and need a stable alpha for the pack first and foremost. A calm environment, safety and love are important but they view it in dog terms not in human terms. She WILL come through this ok in the end!
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 28, 2013 18:09:05 GMT -7
Penny's gait yesterday was really the worst it's been, but today she was back to where she was before yesterday. I started to write that I have no idea what caused the backslide and suddenly remembered that when I was getting her out or putting her in the crate yesterday afternoon, she bolted past me and ran through the kitchen with the other dogs for no more than five seconds. I corralled her and got her back into the crate. I had started removing her collar while she is in the crate, for safety reasons, and she has been trying to slip by me. I think she feels better and is tired of being restricted. Anyway, I now take her collar off after she's fully in the crate and put it on her when she is still fully in the crate by completely blocking the exit with my body. I apologize for forgetting about that. (It's due to one of my meds for my back.)
We have a quiet, calm home in general and love our dogs very much. BJ likes to alert us to any noise regardless of how soft or loud, and this puts the other two on alert, as well. That's about the extent of out-of-control activity here. We've had many rescued Rotties since 1983 and we also used to rescue and re-home them ourselves through a rescue. Penny has a history of abuse and neglect but is the first one we've had that has been afraid of my husband, and that has made it a greater challenge than working with just the neglected or abused ones. She's come a long, long way since we first got her.
When I asked if this was typical of these dogs, I meant the ups and downs of physical progress regarding the disc issue. Of course, I have answered my question in this post. My error. We do the best we can, as imperfect as we are.
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Post by Pauliana on May 28, 2013 21:02:24 GMT -7
They really become a handful when they start to feel better. Believe me we have all experienced something like this.. The mini getaway of the "I feel better now" culprit! Keep up the excellent care of Penny Laine.. You are doing great!
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 30, 2013 17:27:23 GMT -7
Last night, Penny started whining off and on, in spite of having her Tramadol. She was clearly uncomfortable. When I walked down the hall, she turned her head to see me and whined loudly. She did this again one other time when she turned her head. She whined whenever Ward went near her crate. I was flummoxed. We were still up around 3:00 am, so I called the vet clinic, which is open 24/7. I left a message about what was going on and that we had started on the every-other-day with the prednisone and I was wondering if she should stay on a low dose of prednisone or what.
Tonight I got a call back and the vet tech asked me to take Penny to see the vet tomorrow to be checked for a problem with her neck and/or just her back. She also recommended that Penny be put back on 10 mg. prednisone daily for two weeks to see how she was then. She initially offered to have Penny have additional testing at their clinic. I really don't want to put Penny through their testing, as it costs anywhere from about $4,000 to $6,000. Of course that wouldn't include any surgery, which I don't want for Penny anyway.
Just wanted to let you know what's going on here.
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 30, 2013 19:46:42 GMT -7
I'm so sorry about Penny's uncomfortable night. I do hope it's not a disc in her neck, those are so difficult to manage...been there! Keep us updated, we'll be thinking of you!
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 31, 2013 19:02:52 GMT -7
I couldn't get in to see our vet, but we discussed everything on the phone. Penny is back on 10 mg ▲prednisone daily for the next two weeks. Our vet said that she has had many dogs that have had to stay on prednisone for an extended time. Her neck is fine and she is moving it effortlessly, with no more whining with the present dose of prednisone. She was walking better today, also. It was stiflingly hot out today and she didn't try to linger outside. Smart dog!
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Post by Pauliana on May 31, 2013 19:42:41 GMT -7
Thankful that Penny Laine is once again comfortable. She just wasn't ready for the Prednisone taper quite yet..
Thanks for keeping us updated on your pretty Penny.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 1, 2013 20:11:08 GMT -7
It's been like a sauna here today, but Penny had a fan to keep her comfortable. She feels very good with the new regimen of prednisone and she's been quite the chipper girl. She's ready to go! When I took her out to potty this evening, she immediately started digging up the wood shavings that were covering up her "hidey-hole" that she likes to stay in when it's hot. Whoa! Thank heavens that she minds well. Yesterday ended week four of her crate time. Her gait is quite steady once again, so it seems that she is on the mend.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 2, 2013 9:24:15 GMT -7
Awesome update!! |
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 4, 2013 11:27:28 GMT -7
Penny has been doing better on the daily 10 mg. of prednisone. She had her first appointment today with the vet who used acupuncture with her. The vet is wonderful and Penny was a super patient, not showing any reaction to the needles in her back and by her knees. The vet does group acupuncture on Monday nights and we will be part of that group.
He recommended that she remain on the 10 mg. of prednisone for several more months and will be sending a note to our vet about that. He also recommended that she remain crated for at least two more weeks. That will work well with our compliance with this group's rules. Short walks after six weeks and still crated otherwise.
When we returned home, the other dogs were in the entryway and tried to get out to greet her. Roxie bumped Penny and she fell down into the day lilies by the door. She didn't get hurt and was happy to return to her crate. Incidents like this one were the impetus for our putting a fence around our courtyard-type front entrance.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 5, 2013 9:32:55 GMT -7
Staying on pred for several more months could mean the swelling is gone and all that is left for Penny is to be exposed to the adverse side effects and no benefits. To be on pred and allow short walks is a big concern. If there is swelling still, the pred can make them feel better and encourage too much movement. Typical is to first be off all meds which usually happens before the end of 8 weeks of rest, before graduation day and the slow reintroduction to physical activity. This vet does not appear to have an understanding of IVDD.
On the taper the dose of pred it is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain.
Rule of thumb is:
pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed.
If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to completion. Then no meds at all are needed any longer. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or back off too.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 5, 2013 19:30:34 GMT -7
That is very interesting information. I'm not sure what to do about it. One day she does very well and then the next day, her gait is unsteady. She falls down easily and frequently. Maybe I need to put my short snowshoes on her as she hikes through the mowed yard! This has been a very long day and either Ward or I have been out of the house. We both had appointments at different times so Penny won't be left alone and I took her out for potty breaks more frequently than usual, as the weather was great. She has been resisting going into her crate after such breaks, however, and she's become quite the little disobedient pickle. Her nickname is Pickles, and it sure fits her quite well. Tonight when I got down on her level several times to chat with her, she refused to look at me, turning her head away from me. Little booger!
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Post by callibos on Jun 5, 2013 19:43:54 GMT -7
Jude,
First off, its good to have another member with a large dog, mine is a 70 pound labrador. They can be very tough to handle, they have a lot further to fall. I've had problems with Buddy losing balance as well. Ive been using a towel under his stomach to help him keep his balance. Obviously not a solution long term, but it can help for now. Also I saw your post about the prenisone and you should definitely discuss it with your vet. My Buddy has been on pred for 2 months and has experienced muscle wasting in his jaw from it. Pred can be very hellpful, but the side effects from long-term use can be pretty serious. Ideally youd want him on it for as short a time as possible, so I'd discuss side effects and long term use with your vet. Hope that herlps!
Tony
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 5, 2013 22:09:25 GMT -7
Paula, one of the problems with Penny is that she takes Tramadol for her arthritic left hip. Without the meds, she is in pain and unable to walk very far at all, so I would not be able to discriminate if it's her hip or her disc that is bothering her. When she went onto 1/2 dose of pred. every other day, she was in pain even with her Tramadol, and the vet at the surgical center recommended stepping back to 1/2 every day for two weeks, which we have done. Please comment and offer suggestions.
Our other two Rotties miss interacting with her, so if she is out of her crate, they want to mob her. She smells different and they don't understand why. When I brought her in from a potty break this afternoon, Roxie was standing across the width of the crate so Penny couldn't go in, and she didn't want to go in anyway and was trying to go into the dining room. As I held Penny while trying to coax Roxie out, BJ joined us. This was a rare moment, but it is at unexpected times like this that Penny may end up slipping and falling down. I cringe every time she falls. We have a quiet, sedate home and things generally run smoothly. This is the first time that Roxie has gone into the crate and balked at coming out, although she is often by the crate sniffing for odors or stray food that Penny may have dropped. 
Thanks for the comment, Tony. I've taken prednisone myself in the past and pray that I will never have to do so again. I hate it's effects. Ward is taking Penny for her laser therapy tomorrow and he will discuss this with the vet.
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Post by callibos on Jun 5, 2013 22:16:51 GMT -7
I hope everything goes well. I'm worried about a relapse in my own situation because the thought of extending his prednisone any longer terrifies me. I'm told his muscles should come back, but it still bothers me.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 6, 2013 9:09:09 GMT -7
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 8, 2013 11:06:27 GMT -7
I will catch you up to date on Penny. Stevieluv, I have ordered the toe grips for Penny. They are the only things that I found that could be left on. I couldn't imagine the struggle of putting booties on her every time she had to get out of the crate. The acupuncture vet's lobby, where the group acupuncture will be taking place, has a highly waxed floor and Penny slipped around on it during our initial appointment. That and the rains that never seem to go away in the spring clinched it for me to get those toe clips. So thanks for the recommendation.
Paula, regarding the Adequan and the Duralactin, I have not mentioned these to my vet, but I certainly will when I meet with her. They sound like good drugs for both Penny and Roxie. Thanks for the info.
Since Penny doesn't play at all, she really has nothing to do all day but sleep. I fill her Kong with little biscuits and she works hard to get them all out. Other than that, she has nothing to do at all. We keep her near one or both of us almost all the time and I play classical music for the dogs. I talk to my dogs a lot, as my husband is deaf and doesn't wear his hearing aids at home, so this engages Penny some. It is difficult for me to see Penny's life slipping by without having the stimuli that she needs, but I do realize that this period of time is vital to her recovery. My beloved Roxie Longtail will spend time lying near Penny's crate. Except for when it's hot, our guys like to pretend they're a solid lump, but Roxie's tail gives her away every time. BJ's 11 and his chronic kidney failure is now at end-stage failure. He doesn't want to eat in spite of his meds. It's a tough time here at the Essex Street Hospice, but that's why it's called a Hospice.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 8, 2013 23:30:03 GMT -7
Tony, many years ago my female Rottie at the time, Mandy, got sick and the vets ran all kinds of tests and were unable to find out what the problem was. On Valentine's Day when she was 6 y.o., she went outside in the morning to pee and fell over and couldn't get up. My husband was on active duty, so I had to get her into our vehicle and I took her to the vet's office without an appointment. The vet had to carry her in to the office. When he put her up on the examining table, he said, "Oh, Mandy..." She had lost almost all of her muscle mass since she had seen him the previous week. Her backbone stuck out all over, like a dinosaur's skeleton. She couldn't stand on her own. The vet put her on prednisone and she remained on it for months. She recovered but never did regain her proprioceptive sense of where her rear feet were. For the rest of her life, she would fall down if her nails got a little too long. She lived until she was 12 y.o. and was healthy in every other way. For that reason, I am not afraid of prednisone. Without it, I would have had to have her euthanized. Instead, she had a great life and walked or hiked with us to the end.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 10, 2013 11:25:03 GMT -7
Just a quick update on Penny. She's doing better, walking better, scootching higher when she poops, so I guess her back is healing. She has her acupuncture session tonight. I hope her toe grips come today, as I had them sent priority mail. I don't want her to slip on the vet's floor tonight. Whenever she slips, her healing seems to regress.
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 10, 2013 17:53:37 GMT -7
Hope Penny's toe grips arrived in time! Let us know what she thinks of them.. Going to try them with Tyler and want to be prepared. LOL Hope Penny is having a great acupuncture session..  |
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 10, 2013 20:26:57 GMT -7
I knew that Penny was feeling better yesterday when she rolled over onto her back and kicked her feet in the air as she squirmed around, as dogs do, and rubbed her face with both paws. It was wonderful to watch her do that. She felt good and it seemed that her storm was over.
The toe grips didn't arrive today, even though I had paid for priority mail. Ward took Penny to her acupuncture group session tonight, and the group session was just Ward and Penny! Ward said that she didn't slip on the floor - whew! The vet said that he felt that she was walking better and she has good sensation in her rear feet, despite her knuckling over. The vet is looking forward to next week to see how she does this week.
Penny is a real trooper. Our daughter was here today so Penny was awake all day. During the middle of her acupuncture session, she was half-asleep and she slid down to take a nap. When the vet took the needles out, she rolled over onto her back so he could rub her tummy. She's such a sweet, sweet girl. Anyone who believes that Rottweilers are bad dogs hasn't known one like Penny and our other two, and all the others we've had over the years.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 11, 2013 6:10:14 GMT -7
That is a great update! You are doing such a great job - hugs and kisses and cookies and belly rubs to Penny from me:)
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 13, 2013 9:18:27 GMT -7
Penny's been on 6-weeks of crate rest tomorrow. She is being weaned from her prednisone. The acupuncture did wonders for her gait and the acupuncture vet said that he noticed an improvement in her gait after the first session. He told Ward on Monday to continue what we have been doing, acupuncture and crate rest. Because she is doing better, should we continue to let her out only for potty breaks or would it be okay to let her walk around outside (without the other dogs around) for a few minutes?
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 13, 2013 9:20:51 GMT -7
By the way, the toe grips that I ordered last week and had sent by priority mail have not arrived as yet. Fie on the USPS!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2013 10:33:50 GMT -7
Penny is soooooo close to having her disc healed with good secure scar tissue….why cheat on crate rest…give her the full 8 weeks to let that disc heal. The fewest and least amount of steps to take care of business at potty time would be prudent and aligned with the concept of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jun 13, 2013 11:28:02 GMT -7
Okay. Thanks.
She's very good about being in the crate. When she has to go potty, she has to cross 20' of kitchen (less if her crate is near Ward's easy chair), go down one step to the deck, cross the 12' of deck and down one step onto a 12' wooden walkway before she is on the lawn, if one can call dog-dug holes interspersed among the grass a lawn. I swear I'm going to pave it!
The toe grips came in today's mail. We'll try to put them on her tonight.
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jun 13, 2013 15:09:44 GMT -7
Good luck with the toe grips!
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