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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 3, 2013 20:50:24 GMT -7
Penny Laine is a 7-year-old, spayed, 80 lb. Rottweiler (rescued) who has been with us for 2.5 years. She jumped off my husband's bed without using the dog step, slipped and fell, injuring herself on 4/14, a Sunday. She saw our vet on 4/15, and an X-ray of her spine showed arthritic spurring and loss of space between two vertebra, with rupturing of a disc in the middle of her back.
We saw a specialist on 4/16, got a dx of IVDD, and we elected to take the most conservative option of crate rest, as the estimated expense of surgery was upward of $10,000+. She was put on a schedule of Prednisone and is currently nearly weaned from it. She also takes Tramadol for pain, Prozac and Valium for PTSD. The latter two have helped her a great deal, although she still has a long ways to go before she is emotionally stable. Her response to triggers is to run, or freeze if she can't run.
Strict crate rest?
To date, we have not enforced strict crate rest, but we are going to start. Like our other two Rotties, Penny is by nature virtually a slug, as her activities are primarily eating, going potty, and sleeping. She has a very bad left hip and has not been able to walk very far since we first got her. Her previous owner kept his breeding Rotties in crates in the back of a freight truck. He was also abusive to the dogs and medically neglectful. The State seized the dogs, and we are fortunate to have her.
We bought a 30" x 48" wire kennel for her and are in the process of making it portable so that she can be right with us at all times. We also have a Help 'Em Up Harness to help her when she goes outside to go potty.
--Medications
She is on Tramadol (75 mg, 2 x day); Sucralfate (1 gm, 2 x day); ▼ Prednisone (10 mg every other day); fluoxetine (40 mg, 1 x day); and diazepam (10 mg, 2 x day).
-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?
It has been 19 days since her fall and she does not seem to be in any pain. She was doing better when she was on the higher dose of Prednisone. Now the wobbly gait and knuckling over are back almost to where they were after she first fell. I will call our vet on Monday to see what we should do now.
-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? So far, no.
-- Eating and drinking OK? Prednisone made her eat and drink more than usual, and she has gained some weight. She has always had a wonderful appetite.
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Just fine.
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Post by natureluva on May 4, 2013 5:33:47 GMT -7
Hi there, my name is Lisa, is your name Judah? Welcome to Dodger's List! We're glad you found us. Your vet has Penny Laine on the typical IVDD medications, and that is good. If you do see her having any breakthrough pain, you can ask for gabapentin OR methocarbamol to address it. Here are three links to help you with conservative treatment and crate rest: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htm The most important part of conservative treatment is the 8 weeks of strict crate rest. It is time and limited movement that heals the disc, while the meds mask the symptoms. Acupuncture and laser light therapy are excellent complementary treatments for IVDD. They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of inducing a state of well-being. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ FYI - $10,000+ seems extremely high for IVDD surgery. The usual costs we see are between $2,500 and $6,000. You may wish to get a second opinion from a Board Certified neurologist or orthopedic surgeon. Where are you located? We may be able to refer you to one in your area. The best way for you to help Penny Laine is by learning about her disease. Here is a brief tutorial on IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/index.html . If a dvd is more your style, we have an excellent one available for only $3 including shipping. It's great to have on hand to show to family/friends/petsitters so they will know what they can and cannot do with your dog and how they can help: www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm We look forward to hearing more about Penny Laine! Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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Post by Pauliana on May 4, 2013 7:16:41 GMT -7
Lisa gave you wonderful advice, but I just want to add that since she is wobbly and knuckling over like just after her fall that she needs to go back to the anti inflammatory dose of Prednisone. Since she worsened as you were tapering that means the swelling isn't gone yet and a call to your Vet is in order to return to the dose that helping her. You didn't say how long she was on the original dose of the Prednisone but some dogs need to be on the anti inflammatory dose for 2 weeks to a month to get the swelling under control. Please let us know how long and what dosage she was on originally after her fall.
Bless you for saving Penny Laine and giving her a wonderful new life.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 4, 2013 9:00:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the recommendations. She saw the surgical specialist on 4/16 and started on 10 mg Prednisone that day. Her schedule was 10 mg twice a day from 4/16 to 4/ 23; 10 mg once a day from 4/24 to 4/28, 5 mg once a day from 4/29 to 5/3, and 5 mg every other day from 5/5 to 5/13.
Our vet is not open until Monday, so I will call for an adjustment to her schedule then.
I'm glad to have found your website.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 4, 2013 9:18:24 GMT -7
This reply is to Lisa. Thanks for the info. Our own vet does laser therapy, and I will start her on that ASAP. The acupuncturist lives several hours away, so the option for laser therapy is much easier on all of us. She had a short trial in the past for her hips, and her sister had lengthy laser therapy, so we're comfortable with it.
After driving myself crazy, I found two specialist hospitals that could operate for a much smaller fee. I have finally decided to use the least obtrusive treatment of crate rest, with the addition of the laser therapy.
As for her hip issue, prior to the fall she did fine with the little walking she does in the house and yard, so I will get her an Eddie's Wheels cart, like her sister has, once the disc issue is stabilized. That way she can go for walks with us. We'll just look like a caravan out for a stroll.
I have two questions. Can I change my user name to Jude? Is the number in the subject supposed to be her birthdate?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 4, 2013 9:30:10 GMT -7
You can change your display name by going Profile > edit profile > Personal The date in the subject line is the date you started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7, that is true conservative treatment. We use that date to count the number of weeks til graduation date... it takes 8 weeks for the disc to heal.
Are the specialist board certified: neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS)? Hope is Penny will do just fine now that STRICT crate rest has started. Let us know what the vet says regarding worsening of neuro functions and getting back on the ant-inflamamtory dose... Can you get a phone call into the specialist you saw in April today rather than to wait 2 days where there may be increased pressure on the spinal cord, increased neuro damage?
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on May 4, 2013 10:29:24 GMT -7
Hi Jude,
"Rescue" is my favourite breed! I do have a soft spot for Rotties too. Penny is lucky to have found you, and you to have found her. You are right on top of her IVDD treatment which will be such a help for her in the long run. I did a ton of research in dog wheelchairs when Stevie first got hurt and Eddies was my first choice too, especially if she remained toally paralyzed. This is a great site, and incredible resource for IVDD, with lots of friendly helpful people. Keep us posted!
Keeping you in thought and prayer.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 4, 2013 18:03:51 GMT -7
I just read your comments and will phone the vet tomorrow. The female vet who evaluated Penny is a diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (Board Certified in Neurology). She did a brief neurological exam of Penny and found that her reflexes were intact as were the nerve receptors in her legs and feet. She lacked her proprioceptive sense in both rear feet.
Oddly enough, Penny was much better today. She has had a wobbly gait since we got her, due to her left hip issues. However, her legs were steadier today than yesterday, there was no knuckling over, and she was more herself than she had been since her fall. I think she is going to come through this okay once her disc problem is resolved.
I have a question about crating her. She likes to lie stretched out and she can't do that in her crate. From head to toe, she is longer than the 48" crate. What are your feelings about letting her lie stretched out on two 30" x 48" orthopedic cushions in the living room, which is actually the dogs' room, while she sleeps, with one of us with her at all times when she is sleeping?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 5, 2013 9:38:32 GMT -7
Good news on not knuckling, the prednisone is likely reducing swelling enough for neuro functions to return. Yeah!!!
Penny really needs to be able to fully stretch out her legs in the recovery suite. Would an ex-pen be an option if the crate is not big enough? And of course that she would not be able to jump out of the expen.
Any time out of the recovery suite is a dangerous time. Dogs do things in a blink of any eye, dart at the sound of a TV doorbell. I can begin to tell you of the owners who just did not believe their dog would (fill in the blank). We have to be one step of head of them and provide a safe place for the disc to heal... and that in inside the recovery suite.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 5, 2013 11:52:10 GMT -7
Penny is a jumper and has little regard for barriers. I sincerely doubt that she would stay in an X-pen once she began to feel better. I have a 12'x12' sunroom/studio that is directly across a 12' deck from our kitchen. It's a small space, as it has furniture in it. I have thought about taking Penny out there and staying with her during the day and most of the evening, with both of us going into the house later in the evening when all is quiet. She truly is a very low-activity girl and she would just sleep on the large orthopedic dog bed out there. I could play soothing classical music for her, as I do in the house. It would keep her away from the other two dogs, as well, as when they get excited (think FOOD), she does also and that's not a good situation. It was recommended by the neurologist vet that she be kept in a crate or a small room where she could not move around much. I would like to know what you think regarding the sunroom/studio confinement.
And you're right that things can happen in a blink of an eye. And it did last night and nearly broke my heart. Today she is in good spirits, but she did some knuckling over when I took her out for a potty opportunity. My husband and I are both retired and both home. I can control only what I do regarding Penny or anything else. I will do all I can to help this wonderful dog. Maybe I need to crate my husband, as well. Just joking.
I have called the vet hospital where she was seen and a vet tech is going to give me a call back regarding Penny's Prednisone.
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Post by Pauliana on May 5, 2013 14:45:46 GMT -7
Jude,
Anytime out of an enclosed crate or Recovery Suite is a dangerous time for Penny. Does the sunroom offers her protection from jumping up, running for the door or any other accident waiting to happen? She would have to have total supervision since she doesn't have the protection of being in an enclosed crate. A crate also acts as a cast to protect her back from further injury. Can you create the same situation in the sunroom?
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 5, 2013 15:02:41 GMT -7
Absolutely. It would be just her and me and serenity. I'll take a photo and show you the set up tomorrow.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 6, 2013 12:48:17 GMT -7
I called the neurologist vet and she put Penny on a starting-over schedule of Prednisone, 20 mg, following the same pattern as before, but for 7 days instead of the original 5 days for each. If she is not better, she will have an MRI to see if she might have a tumor in her spine. Gulp!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on May 6, 2013 14:14:19 GMT -7
Keeping you both in thought and prayer!
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Post by natureluva on May 6, 2013 15:17:24 GMT -7
Jude, I'm sending prayers and healing thoughts Penny Laine's way. Please let us know how she does with the new prednisone regimen and strict crate rest. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by Pauliana on May 6, 2013 15:32:27 GMT -7
Jude,
Lots of prayers for Penny headed your way..
Healing wishes!
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 6, 2013 17:38:56 GMT -7
Thanks for your prayers. Penny is such a special girl, as are all the other dogs on here.
Jude and Penny Laine
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Post by Linda Stowe on May 6, 2013 18:12:27 GMT -7
Jude thinking of you and Penny Laine. Sending healing thoughts and prayers.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 6, 2013 18:17:21 GMT -7
Thanks. I just uploaded some photos. Unfortunately, they uploaded twice and I can't delete the doubles.  I just tried again and it worked! |
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Post by Linda Stowe on May 7, 2013 9:47:01 GMT -7
Hi Jude Where did you upload the pictures. Anxious to see.
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Post by Pauliana on May 7, 2013 11:37:05 GMT -7
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 7, 2013 17:25:19 GMT -7
Thanks. She is my dream dog. We've had Rotties since 1983 and only one other has had her wonderful, calm temperament. He had severe hip dysplasia when we got him at age 2. He eventually had a femorectomy and had the oddest gait in town, but he lived to be 12+ years.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on May 7, 2013 18:20:47 GMT -7
Beautiful girl that you have there!  |
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 8, 2013 8:16:42 GMT -7
I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this question, but here goes: Penny's crate is 50+ lbs., Penny is 80+ lbs. and the 1/2" plywood used to support the crate (loaded) is ? lbs. The caster wheels that we have to move it are screw-on, with two swivel and two fixed. Moving it takes a lot of strength. Does anyone know of better casters or other kind of wheels that would make moving it easier?
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Post by Pauliana on May 8, 2013 13:53:11 GMT -7
Jude,
You might try a hardware store to find better casters or a cart with bigger wheels. Not sure what hardware stores you have in your area but I would call them and describe what you are looking for and see what they have..
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 9, 2013 10:30:31 GMT -7
Last night Ward bought some bigger caters, as I questioned if the small ones we have on it might not be able to hold such a heavy load. We'll see once he puts on the new casters. I'd actually like to alter our dog-pulling wagon into a platform to hold the crate.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 10, 2013 7:30:59 GMT -7
I'm not sure if this is the right place to write this, but here is my question: I am finding that Penny is distancing herself from me and being more "institutionalized" to the crate as her safe place. She lived in a crate for many years prior to being rescued and I am afraid that being crated for so long will undo all the hundred of baby steps that we have gained over the past few years that she's been with us. Do others have this concern, also? I want to add that her crate rest will continue despite her withdrawal.  She is still knuckling over and her gait is still wobbly, so I know that she needs this protocol, as difficult as it may be for all of us. |
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 10, 2013 8:08:03 GMT -7
Indeed dogs who have had difficult pasts have additional concerns. However healing the back has to be the first priority and I'm glad to see that you are making that your first priority as well.
I suspect that while she may be reverting to some old habits or behaviors while she's in the crate once she's out she'll quickly become the dog she's been with you in your home again. Continue to offer her as much love and encouragement as you can during potty breaks...verbal encouragement and praise. While she's in the crate talk to her offer her praise and encouragement, whatever words or signals she's come to understand. It is indeed a more complicated and difficult situation but I really do think once she's off crate rest she'll get her personality back fairly quickly.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 10, 2013 8:47:19 GMT -7
Thanks for the encouragement.
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on May 10, 2013 20:35:49 GMT -7
Today was a tough one, but we got through it okay. Penny had her first of six sessions of laser therapy this afternoon. She did very well and seemed to enjoy it. She loves to be touched and petted, so that helped.
Getting her to and from the vet's office was very difficult. She's lost her trust in us and runs away from us like she did when we first got her. We finally got her into the crate for the trip and just as we left, it started to rain. When we got to the vet's, she wouldn't get out of the crate. We have a CRV, so it's a long ways down to the ground. We stood in the rain while trying to coax her out of the crate. No dice! Ward finally picked the crate up with her in it, and we managed to get her into the office once we lured her out of the crate, on the ground, with a dog cookie. At times like this, I wish we had a smaller breed.
I was feeling down tonight, so I went to your Facebook page and got a real lift from the encouraging posts. I needed that - thanks!
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I just tried again and it worked!
She is still knuckling over and her gait is still wobbly, so I know that she needs this protocol, as difficult as it may be for all of us.
