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Post by fay520 on Oct 6, 2013 14:58:56 GMT -7
HELP??? My little Dixie is suffering. The vet thinks she might have a herniated disc in her neck. I have been giving her prednisone every 12 hrs. She started doing MUCH better. Then I tried to wean her down to once a day. She is suffering again, walking with her head straight out. You can tell her neck is hurting her. The vet said that if the prednisone didn't help then I should take her to a neurologist, that she might need surgery. There is no way that I can afford all of that. Any ideas on what I can do to help my poor baby???
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 6, 2013 15:49:33 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. Is your name Fay? Please don't despair. Many dogs have healed with conservative care. And it's not uncommon to have pain again when being weaned off the steroid. It just means that Dixie needs more time on the steroid to get the swelling in her neck down. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. Can you give us a bit more in essential information about Dixie:-- Have you been doing the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? If so, what date did that start? -- Since Dixie is once again in pain when being weaned off the Prednisone, her vet should once again put her back on the original dosage. Neck injuries are usually more painful than back injuries and can take longer to resolve. Is Dixie on any type of pain medication along with the Prednisone? How long was she on the Prednisone and please detail the schedule of weaning. -- What are the exact names, dose in mg's and frequency of all meds? -- Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using anti-inflammatories. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking anti-inflammatoriess. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory (not to exceed every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board. -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? Once your dog is off all medication and has no pain, the very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed or weak legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. Check with your vet before starting. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood? -- Dogs with IVDD must be carried with their spines horizontal, carrying both ends. Here's a video showing how to properly lift and carry: -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html The best way for you to help your dog is by learning about his disease. Here are some links to get you started. Please click on all of them to get a good background of understanding. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmDodgerslist has an excellent DVD available for only $3 including shipping. It's great to have on hand to show to family/friends/petsitters so they will know what they can and cannot do with your dog and how they can help: www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm Please contact your vet as soon as possible to discuss with him putting Dixie back on the anti-inflammatory dose of Prednisone that she originally started on. And also discuss with him getting Dixie on board with pain medication and Pepcid AC. From what you've said so far, it doesn't sound as though your vet is comfortable in treating IVDD. You can search for a vet in your area at this website: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmPlease give us the information requested above so we can help you better and please let us know what the vet says. We're here to help you every step of the way. Blessings to you both. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 6, 2013 20:20:34 GMT -7
Fay, glad to see you found your way from FB to here. Good news is you can do A LOT to help!! Marjorie has outlined some very important information and pointed you to readings that will help you to better understand this disease and be ready to advocate for Dixie. Just so we can get things right for Dixie asap, this is what I recommend you do first thing: 1. The taper of Pred 1x a day is to test if all the pain and swelling is gone. It is is clear there is still more work for Pred to do. Your vet needs to know about the pain signs first thing in the am, your feedback is very important so he knows pred needs to go back up to the original higher dose for a bit longer. 2. What was the date you started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? We have guessed it was 9/29, let us know 3. If you can quickly get up to speed and your vet has an open mind to learn what you have learned, he can help Dixie. If he is just not comfortable in treating a disc episode you WiLL have to move on to a new better informed vet. If you start with this page you will have all the info to strongly advocate for 1) pain meds 2) a stomach protector 3) back on Pred for a bit longer to get all the swelling down. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm4. Tips for finding an informed IVDD vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm What is your city/state we may be able to help. 5. Do try to implement the "extras" you can be doing for a neck disc in the tips from this page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm Note again the medication typically used by vets who know IVDD and advocate for them strongly with your vet in the morning. We anxiously await hearing back from you an what the vet said, Rx'd. |
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Post by fay520 on Oct 7, 2013 5:49:01 GMT -7
Yes, my name is Fay. No, Dixie has not been on crate rest. I did not realize how important this was. My vet did not say anything about it at all. I will start that today.
Dixie started on Prednisone (5mg 2x day) on 9/6/13. She was on it for one week, then I tried to wean her to 1x day (per vet), but I immediately went back to 2x day because I could see that Dixie was in too much pain. When she is on it 2x day she acts like her normal self. But as soon as I take away the one dose then she is in pain, and not walking right. I called the vet; and she gave me more prednisone. I have tried a couple times to wean her, but every time she doesn't get that second dose then she is in pain within a couple hours after that. She is not on any other meds. I put her back on pred 2x day, tried to wean her again this weekend, but she is once again in pain and not acting right.
I will ask about Pepcid AC. There shouldn't be any reason that Dixie can't take that.
When on pred 2x day, Dixie walks normal, wags tail, moves head around, ears are up. HOWEVER, when on pred 1x day... Yes, she can walk, but she doesn't want to go down the two steps to go outside. I carry her. Yes, she can wag her tail. She doesn't move her head much, walks with her head straight out, doesn't look up at all, doesn't move head side to side. You can tell she is in pain. Also, she seems to favor her front left leg/foot. It doesn't seem to hurt her, but she carries it oddly. She walks on it, but when she stops walking or sits she lifts up that leg/foot.
She peed on herself once, where she was laying. But other than that she has been going outside, and going all over the house. (This is not normal behavior. She was 100% house-trained before this.) She is eating, drinking, & pooping ok.
Dixie has also put on too much weight since the prednisone. I'm not sure how much, but her middle is much rounder now.
Thank you so much for all of your input!!!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 7, 2013 6:52:12 GMT -7
Hello, Fay Yes, crate rest is absolutely essential to heal a damaged disc and the lack of crate rest may well be why Dixie has not improved, despite being on Prednisone for a month. Movement can cause the disc to re-tear and can prevent it from healing. The crate acts as a sort of cast to prevent movement of the spine. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. I'm very sorry that you weren't informed by your vet of the importance of crate rest. As I mentioned in my prior posting and as Paula has also recommended, it would be best if you could find a more knowledgeable vet to treat Dixie. In the meantime, speak to your vet about going back on the original dose of Prednisone and starting the Pepcid. Being that long on a steroid, Pepcid needs to be immediately started to protect Dixie from GI tract side effects. Also, as I mentioned previously, neck injuries can be very painful and usually pain medication is also prescribed along with an anti-inflammatory and Pepcid AC. Pain can hinder healing and needs to be completely under control from one dose to the next dose. It sounds as though Dixie may not have full bladder control. You can carry her to a spot in the yard where she's peed before, let her sniff there and see if she can release urine. While being on the Prednisone, she'll be drinking more and urinating more. If possible, she should be carried outside every 2-3 hours to urinate. If she's not completely emptying her bladder on her own, you can express her. You should get a hands on your hands lesson from your vet but here's more info on that: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Prednisone can cause weight gain but it would be best to continue with Dixie's regular food until after crate rest is over. After she's better, you can start her on a diet as it's best when a dog has a back problem to keep their weight down. Right now, Dixie's body has a lot of healing to do and she needs her regular food. Please let us know how you make out with your regular vet or in finding another more knowledgeable vet. If you need help finding a new vet, please let us know as possibly one of our members can recommend a vet in your area. Please also check here for vet recommendations: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 7, 2013 9:39:43 GMT -7
Hi Fay, my name is Maureen. I am so sorry that your Dixie has been having such a rough time with this neck disc. Paula and Marjorie have given you alot of great information, and we all know how overwhelming it is when our dogs are hurt. So I thought maybe if I gave you some information in point form it might help when you call your Vet.
-Dixie still has pain - so assume that you are starting crate rest from square one - sad I know - been there, done that - but you will both get throught it.
- 8 weeks in the crate ,only carried out to potty, with as few steps as possible.
-adjustment to her meds,
-prednisone at an anti inflammatory dose for her weight
-pain control, Tramdol and/or Gabapentin and/or Methocarbamol-an absolute must!
-Pepcid to protect her stomach
You are her best advocate - learning about IVDD will help both of you, and her Vet, get her the care she needs. If your Vet won't help you with the medications find one who will. Pain is not acceptable. Not all Vets are IVDD savvy, and some of them aren't willing to learn.
We are all in this IVDD hourney together, and are here to help how ever we can.
Please keep us posted.
Keeping you and Dixie in thought and prayer (((hugs)))
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Post by fay520 on Oct 8, 2013 16:32:16 GMT -7
Hi all... I am still keeping Dixie in her cage. Poor dog. I feel so bad for her. But I totally understand the importance! I have her ▲back on pred 2x day and she is doing much better... though I know she is not ok. I am starting her on Pepcid tonight. I wanted to ask about the pain meds... She is not in pain now due to the pred twice a day. I don't think she needs anymore meds. She has her ears up, and looks completely happy! What do you all think??? And, how long do I need to keep her on the pred??? Thank you all so much!! Oh, I will be calling the vet tomorrow to inform her of all of this.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 8, 2013 17:35:35 GMT -7
Fay, dogs can be very good at hiding pain. Neck problems are usually much more painful than back injuries and back injuries are painful. It's hard to imagine that Dixie doesn't have some type of pain. You had mentioned seeing several signs of pain as soon as she goes off the Prednisone - doesn't move her head much, walks with her head straight out, doesn't look up at all, doesn't move head side to side, she seems to favor her front left leg/foot, sits lifing up that leg/foot. You don't see any signs of this pain as soon as she starts the Prednisone again? Pain hinders healing so you want to be absolutely sure there is no pain that needs to be addressed.
And, yes, please call the vet and let her know you've increased the Prednisone. You'll also need to speak to the vet to find out when another taper can be tried.
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