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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 11, 2013 19:50:34 GMT -7
Quick update for the night. Shorty rolled on his back !! I am so worried sometimes that I am missing pain signals and he is in more pain than I think. Sometimes he is shivering when I go to open the crate to take him out to potty but then quickly stops when I put him down so not sure if he is just bracing himself to be picked up and is nervous... But the rolling over tonight makes me think he must not be in that much pain! This is such a nerve wracking 8 weeks!
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 11, 2013 20:44:31 GMT -7
Hi Samantha,
Oh I remember how nerve wracking the 8 weeks of crate rest is.. Sometimes shivering is pain and sometimes nervousness or anxiety.. Considering Shorty rolled over on his back, I am leaning towards thinking it was nervousness.. Normally when they are in pain, they won't roll over on their back, so that was a good sign.. Keep an eye on him for other signs of pain such as reluctance to move, arching his back, yelping etc but I think he is feeling better judging from the roll over.
Fingers crossed
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 14, 2013 8:18:16 GMT -7
Shorty has been doing well.. No new progress but maintaining steady and no set backs so I will take it! In a day and a half I'm to start the prednisone taper and I'm really scared about it. I know by doing all of the research on here and reading your responses to others that the 5mg 2x day is the anti-inflammatory dose and I'm concerned he may need more time on that dose. I don't have too many signs of pain if any. The only thing he does is shiver and his abdomen gets tights sometimes when picking him out of the crate. He is a anxious dog sometimes and I attribute those signs to that because all the other times he is fine and is his normal self. But what if he is in pain and I'm missing something and I decrease the dose too soon. I know I can put he back on the increased dose if needed but I don't want him to suffer any set backs because of it. He also has another acupuncture session on Wednesday and he is due for some vaccinations like his rabies and distemper and we were going to do that then... The vet said it would be fine but I would love to know your thoughts on this. Thank you.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 14, 2013 9:34:49 GMT -7
I would recommend delaying his vaccinations until this IVDD episode is over. His system is working so hard right now to combat the IVDD and heal. Vaccines put a burden on his immune system, and he is not at his best right now. Perhaps your Vet wuold be willing to wait?
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 14, 2013 9:35:04 GMT -7
Shivering and a tight tummy can be signs of pain. It can be real pain or it can be remembered pain that it used to hurt when lifted. Put on your detective hat to see if when he moves at other times does he show any hint of pain signs (shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, arched back)?
It states right on the vaccination bottle to only give to healthy dogs. Shorty is not healthy right now, he is in the middle of healing a disc.
You'll need to get up to speed on the new standards for shots if you've not read them yet so you can advocate for your dog. Discuss the real risk of getting any of those diseases where you live and the lifestyle of your dog with the vet rather than just going ahead and getting the vaccination.
As an FYI in general vaccines are NOT to be given in the scruff area. They are to be given as low in a limb as possible. This is to allow for amputation if a VAS (vaccine-associated sarcoma) occurs.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 14, 2013 14:37:04 GMT -7
Thank you for the advice.. I Have been watching him most of the day and he doesn't show any signs of trembling or pain while in his crate or with other movements . He did roll on his back twice and pretty much seems like himself. He just does the trembling and tight belly when I go to pick him up to go out. He also shakes sometimes while in the crate when he cries to go out to potty... And it's definitely his ' I have to pee cry'. I have moved the other two dachshunds bed next to his crate and I think he really enjoys having them near him. Will I continue to see improvements while on the taper or does that only occur in the beginning with the the anti-inflammatory dose? I also will speak with my Vet about holding off on the vaccinations... I agree that he should heal first and not overwhelm his immune system... His back is the most important thing at this point !
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 14, 2013 15:18:12 GMT -7
There are a lot of repair jobs the body continues to do once phase 1 and 2 have been completed with swelling down and off pred and pain meds. "Improvements" is a pretty general term that is not very informative to us the IVDD crowd. What IS improving specifically is continuation of phase 3 til graduation day… the disc is continuing on it's mission to form good secure scar tissue. Phase 4 has no time limit to it…here is the full article on nerve repair www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmGlad to hear your observation is he is not in pain. On the test taper… let us know if any hint of pain surfaces and of course your vet right away. We've all got our fingers crossed for a smooth taper off of pred and his pain meds. |
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Oct 14, 2013 15:19:07 GMT -7
Hi Samantha, I'm Sabrina. So glad to hear that Shorty isn't showing signs of pain! On the Dodger's List main site, this page has a very helpful overview of "Healing during a disc episode": www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmIf you scroll down it overviews (1) Pain control, (2) Swelling, (3) Damaged Discs, (4) Regaining Neurological Function. That really helped me to understand what "progress" meant during Conservative treatment for a disc episode. The meds address the pain and swelling/inflammation - they don't heal the disc or nerves. Time on 100% strict crate rest addresses the disc (forming scar tissue to protect it); and regaining neurological function has no time limit. This page is also really helpful: "Nerve regeneration": www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 16, 2013 9:15:23 GMT -7
Shorty update.. Just got back from another acupuncture session and the Vet is very impressed with the strength returning to his legs.. He is able to stand for longer periods of time and shows more and more strength in the left leg. He also was able to correct his left foot for the first time albeit slow during the neuro test. He hasn't done that in weeks when we saw the initial first signs of weakness. Tomorrow the taper starts and the vet said to call immediately with any changes in the wrong direction and we would readjust the prednisone back up if needed. He also agreed that it was best to hold the vaccinations.. We will resume those when he is better. Thanks for all the sound advice and support
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 16, 2013 10:10:13 GMT -7
Yay! That is great news! I am really keeping my fingers crossed on the taper for you. Please us know how that goes  |
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 16, 2013 15:28:24 GMT -7
Those are all very good signs of healing, Samantha - excellent! I'll be praying for a pain-free taper for Shorty.
Blessings to you both.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 19, 2013 22:12:37 GMT -7
So we are on day 3 of taper. Shorty is currently getting 5mg prednisone 1x day and he will get that for two weeks then we taper some more. He seems to be holding his own. No pain that I can tell. He is trying to do more and more walking when outside to pee and I'm doing everything in my power to restrict his movements. I have been looking into doing the penned in area for the outside.. Hopefully that will help. I also cut his Pepcid back to once a day .. A half hour before the prednisone .. But i saw someone else had asked the same question and was told to leave it 2x day? Not sure if I should increase the Pepcid back up? I am working all weekend and the taper could not have happened at a worst time. I wish I was home to observe him more. I hope I'm not missing any signs of pain while I am gone. He is in good spirits and looks comfortable when I get home. He still does his shaking thing but it's only when I am going to bring him outside or when he is excited to get breakfast and dinner. Should I have seen some noticeable signs of pain by now if the taper is not working or can it happen at anytime?
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 20, 2013 6:09:32 GMT -7
Just got home from work... My husband took shorty out this am and said his legs were "sleepy". He said he
Didn't really try and walk like usual. I have taken him out to the bathroom twice and he will stand but his legs appear a little more weak than yesterday. No evidence of pain! He also is still wagging his tail and has control of his bladder and bowel. Any ideas what this means ? Should I increase the prednisone back ? Call the vet.. It's a Sunday and would probably have to go to an emergency clinic.
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Post by Pam & Dobby on Oct 20, 2013 6:54:18 GMT -7
Samantha, I hope that Shorty is OK. Dobby has walked one day and then had a day or two when he basically stood weakly in one spot to do his business and then the next day I had to worry about him walking too much.
Will look forward to your next report.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 20, 2013 10:05:09 GMT -7
Samantha, because your vet is not open Sunday, maybe it would be a good idea to not continue with the taper today. Call in first thing Monday morning and report the signs of no pain but diminishment of neuro functions. You and your vet can then discuss if the taper should proceed or not.
Weakness could be from lying about…just like when we are sick in bed for days, we are not as stable on our legs. Or the weakness could be related to the reduced anti-inflammatory (pred).
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 20, 2013 17:23:52 GMT -7
I increased the prednisone tonight along with the Pepcid. I will call the vet first thing in the morning and have him see him or as least talk it over on the phone.. I am just so concerned and stressed ! I felt like I was starting to get the hang of this crate rest and was so optimistic with all of his improvements. I am still unsure if he is just weak from the rest or the prednisone taper. I hope this is not a huge setback and that he will improve again on the increase. I am happy that he is not in any noticeable pain. I will update after I hear from the vet.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 21, 2013 9:31:47 GMT -7
Talked with the veterinarian this morning. Increased his ▲prednisone back up to 10mg 2x /day for another week. Acupuncture Appointment for Wednesday and go from there.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 21, 2013 11:10:30 GMT -7
This disease is hard…it requires patience to allow the body to heal. You are doing a great job, on top of monitoring things, and giving the vet needed feedback. Hang in there, Samantha!
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 24, 2013 17:08:18 GMT -7
Shorty update- he continues to do well on the 10mg Prednisone daily.. We had another acupuncture session today and he basically stood throughout the whole thing . We will start another taper on Monday which will be a full week on the increased dose then the vet agreed to my recommendation of a slower taper . So Monday we will do 7.5 mg▼ prednisone for a week.. Then decrease again if all goes well. Trying to stay optimistic for Monday and praying all goes according to plan! |
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 24, 2013 20:10:36 GMT -7
Hi Samantha,
Sounds like a very good plan on the slow taper of Prednisone.. Standing throughout his acupuncture treatment sounds like Shorty is regaining his strength.. Great sign there!
Keeping you and Shorty in my prayers..
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 25, 2013 6:29:20 GMT -7
So glad Shorty is doing well Praying for an easy and successful taper |
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 25, 2013 19:43:24 GMT -7
Thank you for everyone's kind words and encouragement .. Fingers and paws crossed for Monday ! |
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 31, 2013 17:03:02 GMT -7
Shorty is currently on day three of the taper.. He is currently on the 7.5mg dose for another four days then we taper to 5mg once a day. He seems to be doing well and no evidence of pain or decrease in neurological function at this time!! I did notice today his stool is still formed but a little looser and worries me that it could become diarrhea. Should I add pumpkin? Nothing has changed with his diet or his meds.. He still is on the Pepcid twice a day. Is this possibly a side effect that he has been on the prednisone too long? The only thing I can think what could be causing it other than then the prednisone would be the pill pockets I'm using for his meds. He has had them before but ran out and went to peanut butter and then back to pill pockets again. Would love your thoughts!
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Post by Pam & Dobby on Oct 31, 2013 17:13:31 GMT -7
Glad to hear he's doing well with no signs of pain or decrease in function. Hope that continues! I think I would add pumpkin to see if you can prevent diarrhea.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 1, 2013 6:23:55 GMT -7
Fingers crossed for a continued easy taper!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 1, 2013 8:29:33 GMT -7
Very good that the taper is going well so far, Sam! Please let us know how his bowel movements are today. Still formed? Any looser? If he's looser, please contact his vet ASAP and advocate for the addition of Sucralfate.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Nov 1, 2013 14:50:52 GMT -7
Shorty finally just pooped now!! Everything looks fine. I was on pins and needles all day but I figured if he was going to have diarrhea he would have gone by now. I guess he loves to keep me on my toes! I have pumpkin on hand if I need it!
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Nov 4, 2013 7:06:03 GMT -7
So far so good with the taper. We made it through the entire week of the 7.5 mg dose of prednisone and today we start the 5mg daily dose. As with most of the dogs in our sixth week.. Shorty wants out!! He is a tricky devil and does his potty whine to get out of the crate and I think he needs to go do his business and he just uses that as an attempt to explore and try and walk more and more! I do my best to make potty time with him taking the fewest steps possible and when I realize he doesn't mean to use his time to go potty I quickly pick him up and put him back in his crate! I am super excited but so scared to let him out when his 8 weeks are up!! I currently am working on getting gates up for areas of the house that are not dachshund friendly. Quick question... Is it okay to still be on prednisone but off crate rest? I was just figuring out the dates when shorty should be off the prednisone... if we don't have any set backs... He will be off crate rest in another couple of weeks but I think the taper will continue for another 4 weeks or so?
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 4, 2013 7:35:29 GMT -7
Yay for taper success!!! Mimi and Pam's Dobby (all around the same time) are all going through the same thing - they want out! LOL Mimi will also not be finished with her taper after 8 weeks and I posted the same question (along with a few others) today. Looks like our "twins" are on the same path |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 4, 2013 8:59:24 GMT -7
Where will Shorty be in 8 weeks with regard to his taper? Once the swelling is gone the taper allows the body to start producing its own cortisone again. In other words he shouldn't be out of his crate if he is still on an anti-inflammatory dose of steriods. Shorty should also be off of all pain meds by the time he is off of crate rest, so that there is no chance of medications masking a still existing problem. We have losts of information here on the after crate rest time, to ease your boy back into activity. After crate rest activity www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmMake your home back friendly www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm |
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