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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 2, 2013 15:41:15 GMT -7
I have a 9 year old red smooth mini/ tweenie dachshund named Shorty. He currently weighs 16 lbs. This is his second episode of back issues. He had to have surgery in 2010 for a ruptured disc. He went from total paralysis to full recovery after the surgery with rehabilitation. He has been doing really well since. But then He started on 9/26 with just out of the blue not doing stairs anymore and he looked rigid and uncomfortable when I picked him up. Instantly I knew something was wrong and it was his back. He has been on 100% crate rest since. At that time he could still walk well but was just a little slow. He seemed to be improving with the crate rest. I took him to the vet yesterday and she put him on a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory because his neurological symptoms were so mild... She told me another 1-2 weeks of crate rest with the medication and that he would be fine. Then earlier today ( 10/2). He was doing well, carried him out to go the bathroom and he seemed like he wanted to run and looked good. I stopped him from running and put him back in his crate to eat breakfast and let him out one more time after he ate. For some reason this time he was guarding his back and looked to be dragging his right leg. I called the vet and she told me he must be progressing and we started him on prednisone this evening. He looks to be in more pain when I pick him up and now he won't walk at all and not moving either of his legs. He still has bowel and bladder function at this time, he wags his tail and has pain sensation in both Legs at present. He is eating and drinking ok. I have scheduled an acupuncture session tomorrow with the vet. Just not sure what to do and feel hopeless. This would be my third back surgery ( I did one last year for my other dachshund) and I can't afford it again.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 2, 2013 19:41:45 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Paula what is yours? First thing first is use of NSAID with a steroid (prednisone) A switch requires a 4-7 day washout to protect the GI tract. If it is an emergency and the benefit of the switch outweighs the risk of no washout, then DOUBLE protection of the stomach is a high necessity. Please let us know your vet protected the stomach with both Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5 mg's 30 mins before Pred AND Rx'd sucralfate. If no protection was offered, get Pepcid AC into him now and in the morning keep the vet in the loop and advocate strongly for sucralfate. We owners have to do things a bit different with this disease. We can no longer blindly follow what a vet suggests. We now have to step up to the plate…by reading so we are in a position to be an active member of the health care team. In fact the position you will have is being the Captain of Shorty's team. So you can more quickly achieve the necessary immediately let me give you these links to read tonight. Then on your own do finish reading all the rest of the our treasure trove of IVDD in formation to be fully up to speed. 1. read about sucralfate and pepcid AC here: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html2. Let us know that pain is fully under control. There are none of these signs of pain inbetween doses of pain meds (were any prescribed?) and no pain nearing the next dose of pain meds….shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight? This article will give you the low down on IVDD pain meds so you can make sure Shorty is not in pain. Pain actually slows the healing process and simply can't be allowed. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm3. Are you doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty with a very, very few footsteps. You stand in one spot and Shorty is limited by the 6 foot leash. The sling is to protect his back, keep his spine aligned and to keep his butt from tipping over. It is movement of the back that hurts the healing disc and can cause severe damage to the spinal cord to loose leg function. <img src="http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg" alt=""><br><br> Can you list for us all his meds with the exact name, the dose in mg's and how often you are to give them.<br><br>All hope is definately not lost!!! Hang in there, get the pain meds right, stomach protected and make sure you are doing very STRICT rest. First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for Shorty to get back to enjoying life after recovering. Knowledge is the best defense in fighting and winning with this disease. A very quick way to get up to speed on meds, how healing happens and when for each of the phases of healing is the "Overview: the essentials" www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm Let us know you are reading and if you have any questions. This Disc Disease DVD is a wonderful way to help other family members understand and even others who might be around or taking care of Brandee: www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 2, 2013 20:20:28 GMT -7
My name Is Samantha and thank you for your quick response. I was never prescribed the Pepcid and only by reading on here do I realize how important the medication really is with the prednisone. shorty only received one dose of the NSAID before switching him to prednisone 8 hours later. I did inquiry about pain medication twice over the phone when I called about his worsening condition and was told that the prednisone would help with the pain. I will be sure to advocate more tomorrow when I take him for the acupuncture. I do have left over tramadol from my other dachshunds surgery should I be giving him that? Shorty only seems to be in pain when I pick him up to go outside.. He yelps only occasionally when I have to pick him up but I don't doubt he is in pain. The only medication he is currently on is: Prednisone 5mg. He is to take 1.5 tablets once a day for two days, then 1 tablet once a day for five then 1/2 tablet until it is gone.
He is on 100% crate rest and has been for almost a week .. Only outside to potty. I tried the sling tonight and he wouldn't pee while I was using it and had to prop his legs up so he would go.
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 2, 2013 20:46:00 GMT -7
Hi Samantha, welcome to Dodgerslist.. Here is a video that shows the right way to lift and carry Shorty. Hope this helps. It would be best to advocate for pain medication for Shorty. Please read this link to learn about the pain medications that are used for IVDD. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmPrednisone works on the swelling that is causing the pain but it can take two weeks to a month with some dogs to get the swelling down and in the meantime it is very painful and pain deters healing.. Please do discuss with Shorty's vet ASAP.. Maybe a figure 8 sling would help Shorty.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgSending healing wishes to Shorty...
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 2, 2013 20:47:03 GMT -7
Hi Samantha, my name is Maureen. You can get Pepcid over the counter at the drug store. We follow proactive vets and give our approx 13-20 lbs doxies 5mg 30 mins prior to Pred. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" Your Vet is doing Shorty a great disservice in not giving him pain medications- don't stand for it! Get insistent, pain needs to be controlled- it is outdated (and barbaric) practice to allow a dog to hurt. Here is video on lifting and carrying Shortie to minimize his discomfort Here is a Figure 8 sling that may help with potty time- many male dogs don't like a regular sling because it put pressure against the penis, they often tolerate this one better www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgAs far as using the Tramadol that you have on hand, you should call your Vet first. Do they have an after hours phone number? Please consider finding a new Vet if yours won't help you manage Shorty's condition. Please keep us posted. Keeping you in thought and prayer.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 2, 2013 21:20:20 GMT -7
Agreed, your vet is not really comfortable in treating a disc episode. All anti-inflammtories have the job to get swelling down. Pain is caused by swelling. It can take 1-2 weeks to get the swelling/pain down in the spinal cord. In the mean time immediate pain relieve happens when pain medications are prescribed. It now will be critical that YOU know this disease and all about how conservative treatment works. Hopefully your vet will be open minded to learn what you have learned at our main webpage where our treasure trove of IVDD info is located: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm If she is not, then you need to hire another vet, one who knows IVDD. How to approach that task: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmBeaware that your vet has placed Shorty on VERY short 2 day course of prednisone and then a taper starts. Do not be in distress, if another round of Pred is needed if you are still seeing pain in two days on Oct 4 when the taper starts. This is the typical way vets who are used to treating a disc episode work a taper. Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose. Your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed. If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to completion. Then no meds at all are needed. Disc healing will continue for the remainder of the 8 weeks. Nerves can continue to self heal…think in terms of months.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 3, 2013 8:27:06 GMT -7
Does anyone recommend any veterinarians in CT that would be better informed of IVDD ? I just went and bought him Pepcid AC at the drug store and will add that to his medication list. I will also advocate for him today to be started on a longer taper of prednisone and pain medications. He is such a sweet boy and deserves a fighting chance. Thank you for all who reply!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 3, 2013 12:13:05 GMT -7
Hi, Samantha Hopefully, one of our members will be able to help you find a knowledgeable IVDD vet in your area. You can also do a search at this webpage: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmGreat job on adding the Pepcid AC and your plans on advocating on Shorty's behalf. Please let us know how that goes today. All the best to you and Shorty.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 3, 2013 14:42:32 GMT -7
Shorty had his first acupuncture today...he did pretty well.. Looked to be a bit uncomfortable at times in his problem area on his back. He has another session for Saturday. I also was able to get his medication changed. He now is currently on
Prednisone 10mg daily for 2weeks then we start a taper Pepcid 5mg 30 min prior to prednisone Tramadol 50mg 1/4 tab or 1/2 tab every 8 hours needed for pain.
The vet was slightly encouraged that he did still have some strength in his legs. Fingers crossed!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 3, 2013 17:34:48 GMT -7
The strength in Shorty's legs is encouraging, Samantha! Fingers crossed here, too! Please note that Tramadol is most effective when given consistently every 8 hours and not "as needed". Great job on advocating for Shorty!
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 3, 2013 21:20:05 GMT -7
I have noticed most people on here are giving their Prednisone 5mg twice a day rather than the 10mg once a day.. Is one way better than the other or it does not matter? Thanks
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 4, 2013 14:14:11 GMT -7
Most of the vets we observe here on the Forum are giving the steroid 2x a day when it is at the anti-inflammatory dose level. That would be a great question for your vet, let us know what he says.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 5, 2013 6:56:24 GMT -7
Another acupuncture and laser treatment down! Shorty seems to be doing well.. veterinarian said he even noticed some improvement with strength! We did switch shorty to 5mg twice daily on the prednisone because the Vet agreed it would be easier on his stomach! Pray that this progress continues!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 5, 2013 18:23:36 GMT -7
You are doing a wonderful job of learning about IVDD, and using that information to help your Vet to help Shorty. Way to go!!!
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 6, 2013 14:46:56 GMT -7
Shorty has been doing well.. Quiet couple of days.. Next acupuncture is tomorrow. I watch him like a hawk and I have been noticing that when I am in the room with him when he hasn't seen me for a while he shakes.. I can't tell if this is from pain or excitement. He has been getting the tramadol every 8 hours and no yelping when picked up and seems to relax or stop shivering after a while I am in the room.. Just wondering what your thoughts were in this if you think he has more pain or just excitement and want out of the crate?
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 6, 2013 15:36:39 GMT -7
Did Shorty ever tremble from excitement before the disc problem, Samantha? If that's something he does when he's excited, then it sounds like that's what it is since it stops after he relaxes. I remember my Jeremy trembling mostly after moving or doing his business because the movement caused pain. You know Shorty best so keep your detective hat on and see if there's trembling or shivering at any other time. If so, you should let your vet know.
All the best to you and Shorty.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 7, 2013 15:32:03 GMT -7
Had another acupuncture session today and the vet reports seeing some more progress on strength. I am cautiously optimistic and hoping he just continues to move forward and show slow but steady progress. As for the shaking I think it is more from anxiety and excitement to see me than pain. I have been with him most of the day today and he looked be calm and resting comfortably in his crate. I also asked the Veterinarian his thoughts and he seemed to agree. shorty was comfortable with acupuncture this time other than the initial inserting of the needles and Even looked ready for a nap during it! As with everyone else on here I feel like I am walking on pins and needles and just trying to take it day by day but already scared for the tapering of the prednisone and how he will do. Thanks for all of the support.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 7, 2013 16:46:25 GMT -7
Slow and steady progress is ideal We are all scared about the tapering of the prednisone, but try not to worry. You know the signs of pain to watch for and if you see them it just means that the prednisone needs to be continued for a bit longer - not at all uncommon. Some dogs just need it for a longer time to resolve all of the swelling Keep us posted.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 8, 2013 5:48:02 GMT -7
I need your thoughts this morning desperately... I woke up this morning and went to take shorty out and he peed in his crate! He has not had an accident yet. I am at a loss .. Is he declining ?! And if so how? He has been on prednisone for a week today and 100% crate rest. Nothing has changed . My only silver lining is that he did poop and pee on his own outside after I took him out.. So was it just an accident and he had too much water yesterday and couldn't hold it? He still has his spunk and energy and wagging his tail. What goes first the bowel and bladder or the tail wagging? Sorry for all the rapid fire questions just super concerned and praying this is not a major change in the wrong direction.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 8, 2013 6:51:35 GMT -7
Sounds like he had an accident and couldn't hold it, because he did go outside on his own later. As long as it is an isolated incident and the urine isn't discoloured or foul smelling which could indicate an infection, I wouldn't worry. Keep an eye on him, realizing some days you just have to pee more often.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 8, 2013 7:53:12 GMT -7
Your Shorty and my Mimi look like they could be siblings by their faces Hang in there, it really does seem like he had an accident. Especially if he peed on his own outside. Sounds like he is already making some great progress!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 8, 2013 7:55:17 GMT -7
Samantha, as damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function More on nerve healing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 8, 2013 8:03:39 GMT -7
Thank you for everyone's kind words and information. I really appreciate it and don't know what I would do without your support.
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Oct 8, 2013 8:32:25 GMT -7
Just a little note Samantha, if your FurBaby is still a little trembly when he sees you, try keeping him close to you at all times...he's as scared as you are. Put his crate on wheels if need be, get a doggie stroller if you can, whatever you can do to keep him close to you.. Praying for you and your FurBaby, and You are not alone in this we all know what you are going through, we have been there and are here for you. Mine lost the use of her back legs, and was given a 20% chance of ever walking again. She's doing GREAT, Totally healed and back to normal. I'm worried about the "next" time too, as we all are, but we did it, and you can too. Hang in there.. <3
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 9, 2013 19:47:31 GMT -7
Shorty had another accident in the crate tonight. He did go out an pee again after that. I am currently working ( i work 12 hours as a nurse) and I am getting all of this information second hand from my husband. He said he was also wining when he took him out to change his blanket. Now he said he is sleeping comfortably .. Not sure what to think about the 'accidents'. Or if he is in pain because my husband doesn't read his signals like I can. He said he wasn't shaking just crying. He is drinking a ton of water because of the prednisone and I am hoping he just needs to go out more frequent . It was only 4 hours from the last time out. Sometimes I think he tricks me and I take him out and he just wants to be outside and he just sits there enjoying being out of his crate. He has another acupuncture session tomorrow so I will talk to the vet about his accidents but what do you guys think?
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 9, 2013 22:08:30 GMT -7
Hi Samantha!
While on Prednisone, most dogs have to go as often as every 2 to 3 hours and they are very thirsty also. He likely just needs to go out more often.. If there is a strong odor to the urine it would be a good idea to have a urine sample tested for a urinary tract infection.
How does Shorty seem pain wise when you are home?
Have a good night at work..
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 10, 2013 7:17:23 GMT -7
Hoping Shorty is having a good day today
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 10, 2013 9:48:58 GMT -7
My Stevie used to pull that trick too - the "I need out to pee" whine, just so that I would take her outside - and then she would just lay down and enjoy the sunshine They are sure smart that way and I didn't dare ignore her because she was on prednisone too and did have to pee every 2-3 hours.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 10, 2013 16:38:31 GMT -7
Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice... Again I reiterate I could not do this without you! Shorty had a good day.. He yelped once when picking him out of the crate but other than that was doing well and didn't look to be in any further pain. Acupuncture and laser therapy went well.. Again he tolerated it well and looked relaxed...You can tell that left side is where the disc is that is bothering him because that's where he flinches or tries to pull away when placing a needle around that area . We just got back from buying him another crate, new bowls to attach to the crate and harness to make it easier to go outside. I figure we have a while left to go and it will make everyone's life easier with those items. I think shorty and me as well will benefit from moving the extra crate in our bedroom so that he feels closer to me and is not so anxious, so at bedtime we will move him to our bedroom but for the most part he stays in the family room where everyone usually is. We also bought him a soft cuddle toy thinking he may like to lay with it but quickly learned he must not be in that much pain since he was determined to 'kill the squeaker". We were scared he would hurt himself so we quickly removed it! The Vet again was happy with his slight improvements. No plan to taper the prednisone yet so at this time we will continue at the 5mg 2x/ day for another 5 days to make it a full 2 weeks at that dose and go from there. Can't wait for this to be all over and to see him be able to be out with his other two daschund brothers!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 11, 2013 10:16:02 GMT -7
All improvements are great! And it really helps when someone else is seeing them too, sometimes we look so hard that we may think that we are imagining it. Here's hoping that the extension on the prednisone gets rid of the swelling. Love that he is feeling well enough to "kill the squeaker" and good job taking it away - that sort of activity could have hurt him, but it is instinct for him. You are doing a GREAT job!!
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