lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Sept 28, 2013 8:39:12 GMT -7
Lupi was diagnosed with IVVD one week ago, Saturday. We took her to the emergency vet because she was in pain (shivering, wide-eyed, moving away from touch) and we were advised to try strict rest and given Tramadol and Melaxicam. On Monday night we took her back to emergency because she could barely walk. When they performed the test where they bend her hind paws under, she couldn't return them to normal position. They kept her overnight and gave her IV pain meds. Tuesday morning I met with the neurosurgeon and was so relieved to see that Lupi had recovered somewhat, regaining movement in her hind legs. In his exam, the surgeon found that she had 3 problem discs. One in her neck, one in her lumbar region and one in the thoracic region. He offered to do surgery, but felt she still had a good chance of recovery with strict kennel rest. We've set up a pen in the living room with just enough room for her bed (she can turn around on it) and food and water dishes. At night, we bring the bed into our room. Lupi is almost 6 and has always been a very calm Dachshund. She has no issues with resting all day. Her pain seems to be under control, but I haven't seem much improvement with her mobility. I know it's only been a week, so I'm trying to be patient. My question is; how detrimental is it to move her to other areas throughout the day so she can be close to me? For instance, right now I've been taking her outside for 3 potty breaks a day, plus taking her downstairs once a day while I work in the office, then back up to her crate in the living room, then into my bed while I watch TV in the evening, then into her bed for the night. There's no issue with her jumping or squirming (she stays still wherever I place her) but is it bad for me to be lifting her so much? She is so used to being my little shadow, that I feel it makes her feel secure to be with me. Of course I'm very careful about lifting and holding her.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
|
Post by PaulaM on Sept 28, 2013 8:58:48 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Paula what is yours? I'm glad to hear your neuro has the same opinion that with leg movement existing, she may be a good candidate for conservative treatment if the pain can stay in control. 100% STRICT rest 24/7 and only out for a very, very few footsteps at potty time for 8 weeks is what allows the disc to heal. During crate rest the focus is on disc healing…during that time nerves can also heal but more often they are slower and nerve healing can continue weeks, months after crate rest is over. We do recommend keeping the recovery suite with you, maybe you want to have two suites one upstairs and one downstairs. As you are doing... be careful lifting to make sure her back stays horizontal to the ground and you are supporting both ends to keep the back with little movement. A better and safer idea for Lupi's healing disc is to put the recovery suite on a table next to your bed at TV time. That way her mattress will never slope always stay horizontal and she can unexpectedly do something harmful in a blink of an eye. The focus on crate rest is staying one step ahead of the unexpected by keeping her inside the recovery suite. Can you give us the details on her meds…dose in mg's and how often you give them. The stomach must be protected…. most often the protector prescribed is over the counter Pepcid AC (famotidine). The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. If you have a question about anything you read, let's talk! This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmHave you had a chance to start your self education on IVDD…this is the key to being able to properly care for her, protect her from harmful advice and live with this disease in the coming years. Here is the complete treasure trove on all things IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmI would recommend these first: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm [understanding all the phases of healing] www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm [types of suites, "the" DVD, and a link to our supplies & tips list]
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Sept 28, 2013 9:54:38 GMT -7
Hi Paula, I'm Nicole. I appreciate your quick and thorough answer. I've read quite a bit about IVVD, ever since bringing Lupi into our home as a puppy. It's disconcerting, because Lupi has always been an athletic dog. We worked hard to keep her weight down and were always getting complimented on her muscle tone. She loved agility classes, hiking and dog parks, all of which she will likely never do again. The surgeon made us feel better by explaining that a large factor is genetics, and since Lupi came from an unknown breeder in Mexico, she probably had bad genes in her disfavor. Thankfully, she also loves obedience classes, so at least she'll still be able to participate in those eventually. The surgeon we saw did warn us about possible stomach issues and made it clear we were not to give the Meloxicam without food. She has shown no side effects, and is eating fairly normally-a bit less than usual but I think that's because she's not active. She has her regular 2 bowel movements each day. We were only given enough Meloxicam for 7 days, so she's completed that. We will continue with the Tramadol-20 mg every 8 hours. The surgeon said that studies have shown its primarily the cage rest, not the anti-inflammatories or steroids that promotes disc healing. He wants to be sure that Lupi is in no pain, so we are to monitor her now that she is only getting Tramadol, to be sure she's still comfortable. I will take your advice and keep Lupi in her own bed while watching TV. I know I'm lucky to have a dog that's content in her pen and doesn't bark or whine-she just stares with those big eyes and I hope she doesn't think she's being punished.
|
|
Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
|
Post by Sabrina on Sept 28, 2013 16:58:27 GMT -7
Hi Nicole, I'm Sabrina. I'm so sorry Lupi is having a disc episode, but I'm so glad to hear that you are proactive in educating yourself for her sake. She's lucky to have you! Great to hear that your surgeon understands how vital crate rest is! Like the surgeon said, the medicines don't address the disc or nerves, just the pain and swelling/inflammation: See the "healingpage" Paula linked, and if you haven't already take a look at: Inflammation, swelling in the spinal cord - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmI'm also so glad to hear the surgeon takes pain control seriously! Does your surgeon have a plan on when to "back off" on the Tramadol to test and see if the NSAID has done it's job (controlled the swelling/inflammation that causes the pain)? From the "healingswelling" page: "NSAIDs do not require tapering off, but require the same observations of pain returning and contacting the vet promptly to extend use. There really is no way to know how long it can take to resolve swelling." Good to hear that Lupi is resting in her crate. As she feels better, you may need some strategies to help her stay content in her crate. If you haven't seen this page, it has a lot of very helpful ideas: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm#Emergencyconfinement))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Sept 29, 2013 8:44:53 GMT -7
Hi Sabrina, Thank you for the well-wishes and words of encouragement:) I think the decrease in appetite had more to do with depression than anything else, since yesterday Lupi had a special visitor and perked right up. My husbands little cousin, an 8 year old boy with whom Lupi often has "sleepovers" came to see her. We (very carefully!) put him in her pen with her and let him pet her calmly for a few minutes.. She immediately wagged her tail, ate her food, and even squeaked her toy for the first time in a week! We made sure to keep her still and kept the visit short. It was nice to see her old spark come back. I'm thinking of having the neighbor kids pop by to just feed her a little kibble and give her a quick pat. She hears them playing outside and whines. I tried setting Lupi out in the front yard to do her business last night, just for a change of scenery from the back yard. It was too exciting for her and she wanted to roll around. We'll stick to her usual potty place for now. Our next appointment with the surgeon is in 10 days. We have enough Tramadol to last until then and I'm supposed to watch her carefully to make sure there are no signs of pain since she's off the Melaxicam. So far, so good. My regular vet has called twice to check up on Lupi and I'm keeping him updated as well.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
|
Post by PaulaM on Sept 29, 2013 11:07:26 GMT -7
Nicole, the only way to know if all the swelling is gone is to be off Meloxicam (the ant-inflammatory) AND pain meds. Pain meds mask pain so there is no clear picture whether swelling is still there and the need to be back on Meloxicam a bit longer. Can you speak with the vet on Monday about getting a true picture of the state of swelling in the spinal cord? Waiting 10 days if there is still swelling masked by pain meds means 10 days without Meloxicam IF it is needed. Pain meds will do nothing to address swelling. On the other hand if there is no swelling why take pain meds to give comfort from non-existant swelling?
A much safer idea for Lupi's early healing disc is to have supervised visitors only pet her through the wires of the ex-pen from the exterior. Her disc is at great risk with extra, unexpected movements that have the potential to happen in a blink of an eye. She is most safe inside her recovery suite all by herself.
Sounds like you have good support with TWO vets checking up on Lupi and advising you! Your surgeon is doing a good job getting information across to you. There is very likely a genetic component for dogs being born with this disease, some dogs get IVDD and some don't. Some dogs have one disc episode their entire lives and some have multiple…this is just such an unpredictable disease. Crate rest is so essential as there are no medications which can heal a disc… it is only the limited movement of the recovery suite which provides the needed environment to heal a disc. Meds deal with swelling and pain.
Let us know what your vet says about a true test of swelling by backing off pain meds or stopping them.
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Sept 29, 2013 11:20:39 GMT -7
Hmm...good point about the swelling. I will call our regular vet tomorrow and see what he says.
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Sept 30, 2013 12:49:24 GMT -7
Ok, so I called the vet and he agreed with your advice to taper off the Tramadol. We're going to cut back to twice a day and see how she does, then once a day, etc. He wants us to be very observant of Lupi's reaction to ensure she isn't showing any signs of pain, as he says pain really delays the healing process. On another note, I may have spoken too soon about how content Lupi was in her pen. I think she just wasn't feeling good. Now she seems to have her spark back and wants out! When I take her outside to do her business, she tries to play with me and rolls on her side for belly rubs. I try to keep her still, but is it ok for her to be on her side? She also roots around in her bed, wanting to bury her bully stick. I hate to take away her treats but it's probably not good to let her "dig" and "bury" I'm so happy to see her happy again, but it's going to make the next 7 weeks very hard!
|
|
Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
|
Post by Sabrina on Sept 30, 2013 17:56:28 GMT -7
Your vet sounds great! Yes, be very observant for signs of pain, as this will tell you if there's still swelling/inflammation.
So glad to hear that Lupi is more herself! Boy, do I remember worrying about both sides of the spectrum - I'd worry if Charley was just sleeping all day, and I'd worry if he was too active! Charley would scratch up "nests" in his blankets and roll on his side, too. I was glad because it showed he wasn't feeling horrible, so I tried to stay calm so I didn't worry him or make him think that it was a game and encourage more activity!
Is Lupi's bully stick the kind that's quickly eaten, or the kind that takes awhile? Would it work to try to give her a piece sized to eat "in one sitting" (so there wouldn't be anything to bury), or will she bury it regardless of size/ease of consuming?
If you haven't had a chance yet, there are great ideas for how to reward calmness in that Emergency Crate Training page - some combination of those strategies should help!
))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
|
Post by PaulaM on Oct 1, 2013 15:42:42 GMT -7
Instead of the Bully Stick you might consider this lower calorie idea to avoid weight gain during her 8 weeks of little activity. Soak the kibble in broth and freeze each of her normal kibble meals into a kong. This way Lupi will have a job…working for her dinner. And it will take her a lot longer to eat.…dinner and entertainment in one package and no extra calories added! Do get the low down on Bully Sticks here: speakingforspot.com/blog/2013/03/24/the-lowdown-on-bully-sticks/
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 1, 2013 21:23:45 GMT -7
Thanks for the suggestions Sabrina and Paula. Today was a really good day. Lupi was happy yet calm in her pen. She seems to understand that her life is in the pen for now. No signs of pain or discomfort, and she keeps getting steadier on her legs. I know there can sometimes be setbacks, so I'm trying not to get too excited, but I can picture her walking normally in time. I like the idea of freezing softened kibble in her Kong. She loves her Kong so I know she'll enjoy that. I'm so happy I found this sight, because even with the Vet's recommendation, I have a feeling I wouldn't be as strict as I should be with the crate rest, if not for the encouragement and success stories on here.
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 3, 2013 21:42:26 GMT -7
I know I read something about this somewhere on here, but I can't find it and its driving me crazy. Lupi has started nibbling at her right hind leg tonight. Is this a sign of pain? Something I should be worried about? Maybe it's just an itch that's bugging her, I don't know. She was doing a lot of digging today in her bed so I hope she didn't strain something.
|
|
|
Post by Nancy & Polly on Oct 3, 2013 22:52:15 GMT -7
Keep a close eye on that. She may be experiencing nerve pain or irritation. It can feel tingly or like electric shocks. Dogs don't have the sense to leave it alone, and sometimes really cause damage to themselves because the numbness keeps them from feeling the pain caused when they chew on it. It can be very dangerous. If it continues, call your vet right away.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
|
Post by PaulaM on Oct 4, 2013 14:18:28 GMT -7
Everyone has experienced numbness or pins and needles tingling in your legs when sitting in a bad position for too long a time. Your dog can be feeling abnormal nerve sensations that are mild pins and needles to quite painful burning, on-fire feeling that makes them bite to stop the pain. These are abnormal signals explaining why a paralyzed dog can feel this neuropathic pain.
You would need to stay on top of observing for any more signs of chewing on body parts as this can lead to death. Immediately put a e-collar on or a lengthwise folded towel and secured closed with duct tape. Get to a vet for a medicine that can help to control these very painful sensations. The name of the drug is called gabapentin.
Let us know what Lupi is doing today, has it increased to chewing?
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 4, 2013 21:22:31 GMT -7
Ok, so no more biting at her hind leg since last night. It very well could have just been an itch. I feel so paranoid, like I'm watching her every move and thinking the worst. Today was a good day-no weird symptoms. When I took her outside for her afternoon potty break she play-bowed and jumped playfully at me. I freaked out and yelled "No!" and Lupi sat and gave me the saddest look. I hate her thinking I'm mad at her. I gave her lots of pets after, and hand-fed her dinner in her pen which she loves. I'll be so happy when this is over and I can cuddle with her on the couch again.
|
|
|
Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 5, 2013 4:39:35 GMT -7
I am so glad to hear I am not the only one who has been babying their dog in the crate. I hand feed my Mimi too.
So glad that she seems to be feeling better.
|
|
Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
|
Post by Sabrina on Oct 6, 2013 12:45:02 GMT -7
So glad to hear that Lupi's not biting at herself! Have you seen this page? It's a sign to print and post on the fridge so that you know what sort of signs/symptoms to look out for: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfI read over mine so many times! It helps know what's a "red flag". ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 6, 2013 20:13:45 GMT -7
Thank you Jean and Sabrina. That printout is awesome and will help ease my mind. I guess I didn't realize there would be so many ups and downs. I just thought Lupi would gradually continue to feel better and better and gain more and more mobility as her rest period went on. I'm seeing now that there are good days and worse days, and this is just the beginning of a long journey.
|
|
|
Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 7, 2013 8:27:54 GMT -7
Nicole thanks for your kind words regarding Mimi. I agree I think there are good days and bad days. Just wishing the bad days would become fewer and further between.
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 10, 2013 20:15:24 GMT -7
We had a follow-up with the surgeon today. He's pleased with her recovery thus far and is still very hopeful that we'll be able to avoid surgery! He did give us a good supply of Tramadol for the occasional discomfort she still feels (she never yelps but sometimes grunts when we pick her up) and in case she suffers a future relapse, so we don't have to wait until we see the vet to address her pain. Her right hind leg is definitely her weak spot, and her gait is still stiff and wobbly, but the vet believes there's still lots of time for it to improve. He was a bit concerned that she had lost a pound, but her appetite is fine, it's just that she's getting WAY fewer morsels of "human food" since she can't beg anymore! It's a good lesson in how many extra calories she normally gets. I'm really happy with Lupi's overall progress and hope things will keep getting better. The vet also said it would take another 6 weeks for her to heal, but I already knew that, thanks to this site.
|
|
|
Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 11, 2013 5:49:34 GMT -7
Nicole that is awesome news! So happy for you!
|
|
StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
|
Post by StevieLuv on Oct 11, 2013 10:02:53 GMT -7
That is wonderful news. Looking forward to hear of her continued improvements
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
|
Post by PaulaM on Oct 11, 2013 10:43:18 GMT -7
Nicole, good news on the continued good progress. I think I'm in LOVE with your neuro surgeon. He consistently is able to impart the important details to you and understands the non-invasive conservative treatment can work when the owner is fully committed to strict rest as you are doing. Would you consider helping another member searching for a well-informed IVDD vet to help with conservative treatment? We have a directory where you can place a vet recommendation. dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting Thanks in advance for sharing!
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 11, 2013 11:52:09 GMT -7
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 16, 2013 9:12:07 GMT -7
Ugh. I'm so upset. Lupi's been on crate rest for 3 weeks and things seem to have been slowly improving. Today I came home to find my dog at the door to greet me. Apparently my husband didn't properly secure her crate door before he left this morning. I immediately picked her up to put her back in her crate and she yelped (which she hasn't done since the very beginning of her episode) and started shivering. I gave Lupi a Tramadol and had to leave her to go to work. I've made an appointment with neuro at 4:30 today, but I am just devestated that this has probably set us back to square one. And I can't even be as angry with my husband as I'd like, since he left in a hurry to go to the doctor and is at the hospital right now, probably with kidney stones. This is just an awful day.
|
|
|
Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 16, 2013 10:11:59 GMT -7
OK, deep breath. Maybe it's not a huge setback, but just some discomfort today. Please hang in there and let us know what your vet says. I hope your husband is ok and is feeling better. (((HUGS)))
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Oct 16, 2013 15:32:21 GMT -7
I'm so sorry this has happened, Nicole. Please let us know what the neurologist says after seeing Lupi. Thoughts and prayers, too, for your husband.
|
|
lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
|
Post by lupi on Oct 16, 2013 18:08:40 GMT -7
Ok, so I overreacted. Thank goodness! You were right Jean-not a big setback. She was fine after a dose of Tramadol and hasn't needed anymore since this morning. We were able to determine that Lupi did not do anything dangerous like stairs or furniture (thankfully we happened to have the door to the basement closed) but likely strained a muscle slipping on the hardwood floor. The Neurologist found nothing to indicate she'd done further injury to her discs, but advised us to tack on an extra week of crate rest to be on the safe side. The main thing is, she hasn't shown anymore pain since I picked her up this morning. Everybody: Please, please make sure your dogs are properly crated! This could have ended much worse. Thank you guys for your concern-hubby will be fine too. Just has to take some drugs.
|
|
|
Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 16, 2013 18:11:08 GMT -7
Great news all around...thank goodness!
|
|
StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
|
Post by StevieLuv on Oct 16, 2013 18:13:20 GMT -7
Great news - what a little dickens to take advantage of the latch being open, they sure are smart aren't they! Good to hear that she is okay,and that your awesome Vet suggested to add a week just be sure. Take care and keep us posted
|
|