Tara & Ace
New Member
MALE- Australian Shepherd
Posts: 1
|
Post by Tara & Ace on Oct 12, 2024 18:53:43 GMT -7
[Original subject line:Aces conservative treatment ]
Hello I am going to try to give as much informations as I can. I've never dealt with IVDD and I'm completely heart broken.
Ace is my 70lb australian shepherd he will be 9 years old in a couple of weeks. He has always been my on the go dog who protects our 10acres. We live in Missouri so its been decently nice.
On 10/5 he decided to stay out all night which isn't something out of the ordinary usually when the nights are cool he will stay out.
On the morning of 10/6 I noticed he was acting a little weird and kind of limping, I che ked his paw and his leg and didn't notice anything, I figured he had stepped on something out in the yard like he had done before.
On 10/7 he wasn't using his left leg at all and I started to get more concerned so I made a vet appt but it was still 2 days away.
The morning of 10/8 he was still moving about but not using that leg, that evening he had lost control of both of his back legs.
10/9 we finally got to the vet and they did xrays and could see some minor compression right under his shoulders and deemed it IVDD.
My vet is French bulldog specialist so they see ivdd often. I have been so emotional this week because I feel like everyrhing I am doing is wrong. We started him on
prednisone [as of 10/9?] 20mg 2 times a day for 10 days, then 1 a day for 10 days, and then one every other day for 10 days. He is on
methocarbamol 500mg every 8 hours, and
gabapentin 600mg every 8-12 hours (we've just been doing every 8 to stick with his other one).
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
70lb 9 y,o,
10/8 lost control of both rear legs
Prednisone as of 10/9?: 20mg 2x/day for 10 days ; 10/19 TEST TAPER for: _ pain and _neuro
methocarbamol 500mgs 3x/day
gabapentin 600mgs 3x/day
Ace needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of Prednisone! ]
He has a wire pen with a huge pee mat under neath it, he's not been out and about since Wednesday 10/9. As of today he doesn't have deep pain sensation, but he shivers in his legs every no and then, if I rub his legs he tries to pull them away so I know he can feel. He still is alert and gets happy when he gets his bone for the day and his lick mats. We got a sling to take him outside and we take his wire pen out with him and let him lay in it while I clean all of his stuff and he gets to enjoy a little sunbathing. I have noticed he has a rash around his penis so I need some help on how to protect that. I did shave around his penis and the bottom of his stomach to keep it from staying wet.
His stomach is tensed, he does get up and switch positions throughout the night. When we get up in the morning he is pretty adamant about getting up for the day too, but soon realizes he cant. I am just at a loss and he weighs so much so a lot of things are a little more difficult, I'm so afraid I'm going to hurt him worse.
|
|
|
|
Post by Modalita & Willie on Oct 13, 2024 0:09:30 GMT -7
Good Morning Tlynn. I am so sorry you are going through this. How big is his wire pen?
Also, having gone through exactly I completely understand the emotional rollercoaster you are going through. But also understand that disc healing goes very slowly, hence the 8 weeks that conservative takes.
Does he have control over his bladder? Any tail motion?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,863
|
Post by PaulaM on Oct 13, 2024 7:59:40 GMT -7
Tara, welcome to the Forum, we are glad you have joined! I see that Modalita has initiated some very good questions about Ace's neuro status. The more we know the better we can give you comments to help Ace best-- see all the questions at the end of this post. Until we have all the specifics, here are my comments in general to help Ace. Tense stomach can be pain and can be due to GI tract damage from combo of prednisone, nerve damage and stress. His stomach should be protected with an acid suppressor such as Pepcid AC. 🚩 Important reading for you TODAY, Sunday 10/13: 1) 3 stresses +Pepcid AC! dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection 2) info on Pepcid AC (famotidine) marvistavet.com/famotidine.pmlGet Pepcid AC on board and then keep your vet in the loop when he reopens on Monday. 3) The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) with a disc episode is: 0.44mg famotidine X dog's weight in lbs  This page is for you with lots of tips and ideas for helping a large dog during the important limited movement of the spine while the disc is healing for the next 8 weeks. 🚩https://dodgerslist.com/large-dog-care-tips-ivdd/ How to set up the mattress system for easy maintenance and to keep urine away from skin and fur. 🚩 dodgerslist.com/strict-rest-recovery-process/
Skin Care ointments for rash that do not contain poisonous to dogs Zinc.
Aquaphor Baby, Aquaphor regular Healing Ointment contain same ingredients OR Bayer's A+D® Original Ointment
 OR ![https://i.postimg.cc/N0g4BFRF/A-and-D-ointment.png]()
QUESTIONS
Our main goal is to help you become educated about IVDD so you can better work with the vet you’ve hired, protect your dog and give proper care during this episode, but also to be able to live many happy years ahead with the disease your dog was born with.
It is difficult to comment not knowing the specifics pertaining to your dog. It helps us work together with you and avoid offering ideas that could cause harm or lead the discussion in the wrong direction delaying help for your dog — please share a bit more detail with us:
❖1 Is there still currently pain with 3x/day Methocarbamol and Gabapentin? Mention only those signs you observe:
◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy
◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground
◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position
◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions
◻︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves
Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose.
If the pain meds are not yet right, as the eyes and ears for your vet, please call your vet ASAP to report your observations so meds can be adjusted. Advocate for any of the pain meds be given 3x/day (every 8 hours) for round the clock coverage, dose to dose coverage.
— Methocarbamol works on the pain of muscle spasms.
— traMADol is the general pain reliever.
— Gabapentin works on nerve pain.
There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing.
Understanding the roll each kind of pain med plays in providing full comfort, will aid you best in advocating for what your dog needs. Good overview here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/30/pain-medications
❖2 MED LIST
Was prednisone first dosed on 10/9? What date if not 10/9?
❖3 GI Tract problems due to combo of stress, nerve damage and prednisone?
—Eating and drinking OK?
-- No nausea/not eating?
-- no vomit?
—Poops OK?
-- Normal firmness & color -no dark black or bright red blood indicating bleeding ulcers?
-- No diarrhea?
❖4 Please let us know that you're on the same page about strict crate rest.
With little blood supply, discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood-rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc.
The body does have the ability to self heal a disc. The very STRICT rest part of conservative treatment is key to avoiding a disc relapse and potential for severe nerve damage. It is far easier to meet your dog's care needs if you understand things.
STRICT means:
◼︎No laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths
◼︎No dragging or meandering at potty times.
◼︎No PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc
◼︎Chose a mobile vet to come to your home if you desire laser or acupuncture
◼︎No chiro therapy:
Why Chiropractic is not recommended for an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic
◼︎ Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Movement of the back can increase a disc tear and escape of disc material into the spinal cord. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs.
◼︎ Avoid dangerous detours. Follow the "Roadmap." Tape it to your fridge. D/L and print out: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf
❖5 Can Ace specifically sniff and squat and then release urine which is bladder control?
-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted which are indication of an overflowing bladder and loss of bladder control?
-- Overflowing bladders need to be expressed to avoid UTIs. Review the video then get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/ Getting an expressing lesson IF Ace has no control, would be a health benefit worth the risk of a car transport into the vet. Review video before the vet's lesson to get more out of it: 🚩 dodgerslist.com/bladder-bowel-care/
Potty time for a dog with a DOG with BLADDER CONTROL:
Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps.
Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over.
A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to a minimum as you stand in one spot.
An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!
LARGE DOGS: If your dog is too big too carry it is still important that the amount of movement to the potty place be minimized. Try a pee pad right outside the crate for potty time.
❖6 Current Neuro functions:
-- can your dog wobbly walk?
-- move the back legs at all?
-- wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk?
MONITORING NEURO FUNCTIONS
As damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. Excessive back/neck movement during rest can also cause a setback in neuro recovery
Nerves do heal in the exact opposite order nerve damage occured.
1. 10/6 Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing swelling
2. ? Wobbly walking
? legs cross
3. ? Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. ? Paws knuckle under. Dog is slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all
5. ? Weak/little leg movement,
? can't move up into a stand with back legs
6. __Back Legs are not able to move at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. __Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted.
Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. __Tail wagging with joy is lost with specific happy talk
9. __Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy.
Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance.
Precious hours can be lost with a general vet who gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS.
🚩A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery:
dodgerslist.com/surgery-vs-conservative/ √
🚩Dr. Isaacs indepth Interview on surgery and conservative treatment:
dodgerslist.com/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers
Very much looking forward to your answers so we know best how to help. |
|
