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Post by Stephanie & Jedi on Oct 5, 2024 10:45:58 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Introducing Jedi] HI! Jedi is 5, and he blew a disc on Sept 2, symptoms showed up at night, and by Wed Sept 4 morning he was in surgery. HE is one month and a couple days out from surgery and walking great. Just a bit wobbly, some days more than others.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit ]
weight? 5y.o.
gabapentin
traZODone ]He is on gabapentin still, and trazodone. We also have Ace if we need to give it. We probably could take him off the gabapentin, but rehab says it's ok to still take it. He is walking around to potty several times a day, walks around the house a bit, and we were just approved to do 5 min walks outside on leash. Problem is that he is excited and pulls and "bunny hops" which is probably easier to him than running with alternating rear legs LOL He started hydrotherapy [treadmill or swimming?] and cold laser. Overall they say he is doing fabulous, likely because we got the surgery so quick. --- [Original subject line: Swimming] Hi there. I'm brand new here. We have a 5 yr old mini dachshund, Jedi. He is one month and a couple days out from IVDD surgery. Apparently his other discs are also not in great shape  He is doing great, thinks he's all better now  He walks great, still wobbly but some days better than others. Overall in GREAT shape for being 4 weeks out. The reason for my post is the topic of swimming. I have seen here on dodgerslist they say it is a great activity. I have seen elsewhere that swimming is BAD for ivdd dogs and actually dogs that tend toward spinal issues in general. I am so bummed, because Jedi is a massive ball dog. He is a retriever reincarnated into a dachshund. He lived for his ball. His fave thing aside from just us throwing it and him chasing it, was me to sit by the kiddie pool (sometimes we would go rent a regular pool for him for an hour!) and throw his ball in, he'd jump off the ramp and into the water, fetch it, rinse, repeat forever. So I had thought, well if he cannot race after his ball anymore, at least we can continue the kiddie pool/ball in the pool and it would be good for him (even if jumping off the side was forbidden). But now, I'm not sure! What is dodger's list basing it on that swimming is good for dogs? Our rehab vet also said that actually due to the arching of the back when swimming, it's not good. I was like dang it then I will invent a life vest that keeps them in the proper position! In any case, what are the schools of thought on swimming? I am referring to actual swimming (with a life vest of course), but I also thought I wonder if that is bad, what about being in the pool to a level where their feet are not off the ground, but almost. if we could get him to a place where he could chase his ball in that pool and feel like he is sort of swimming, but he's actually barely walking in the pool, that might be good. Just trying to figure out how we can keep his ball in his life in any way.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 5, 2024 13:17:08 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. We would love to hear more about Jedi's IVDD story if you would like to share.
Jedi is doing well a month after surgery. Healing is not linear, so it is not surprising if he is more wobbly some days than others.
What date will Jedi be released from post-surgical crate rest?
Surgeons often prescribe short walks as a form of therapy during crate rest. I remember my dog, Frankie, bunny hopping when he first began walking after surgery. He bunny hopped for some months afterwards. It looked very cute. Just try to keep him from getting too excited until he is released from crate rest.
Is he on gabapentin because he was showing some signs of pain? If he is not showing any signs of pain, there may be no need to continue gabapentin.
I love the profile picture of your three doxies? Which one is Jedi?
I will be moving your posts from the guest board over to the Surgery board.
After the crate rest period or with the surgeon's approval, swimming is safe and a good form of exercise. There is minimal impact on the back and for many dogs it is just a fun activity.
When a dog is just starting to get back to normal activity, exercise should be introduced slowly and the dog monitored for signs of fatigue. After that, Jedi can enjoy swimming towards his ball in a life vest.
After crate rest, a dog should be able to fetch a ball rolled gently on the ground. If the dog starts pouncing on the ball or gets rambunctious while playing with it, the activity should be stopped.
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Post by Stephanie & Jedi on Oct 6, 2024 12:07:36 GMT -7
He was released at 4 weeks, but what that means, I'm not sure. He's still walking around to potty, and we let him walk a bit in the house, like to drink water and eat with the other dogs. We did not use a crate he hated it, we used a dog stroller, which saved us. He could go around the house with us and we could take it in the car. The rehab has said he is ok to do like 5 minute walks on a leash.When he gets a bit more excited than wandering around at potty time, he will tend to bunny hop, we just don't know how bad or good that is along with the normal walking. Like I said, what we are doing now is not much different than when he was on crate rest. He just stayed on the couch or in the stroller or in our laps ALL THE TIME unless he was walking to go potty. So he's basically doing that now except now we let him walk a little more, like across the deck and into the house after potty, and a bit in the house. The rehab had said that there was not a huge reason to stop gabapentin, since he's in therapy and with the walking, if it's making him sore at all. But we could easily just stop it. Maybe at the end of the bottle. Jedi is the white one This is where I would like to have a discussion. I have read and seen BOTH sides, apparently swimming may NOT be good at all, so I'd like to have opinions on that and what the sources are for and against. If I could create some way for him to swim or get close to it that didn't hurt his back, I would!
By the way, I'm not sure what is typical for others, but our surgeon basically said he doesn't need to see him again after the 2 week recheck. They thought he was doing "phenomenal" for two weeks out. So now we go to a canine/equine rehab place and we saw the vet there who specializes in animals with these issues.
This is our problem with Jed. He is too excited about his ball. However, in thinking about it, normally when I sit with the ball, he runs off ahead to wait for it. He does run, but I wouldn't say he races (in the house). So if i roll it to him, there wouldn't be any pouncing or jumping or hard stopping maybe. And he will bring it back. We might have to try it. HE has not seen a ball since he was injured, because if he does not enough trazodone would calm him down! BTW he is on traZODone 50 mg 3x per day, but we are hoping to reduce it. He just has so much energy normally that is now pent up. We plan to start more snuffling activities and getting him places where he can sniff. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 6, 2024 15:44:30 GMT -7
Stephanie, thank you for filling in on additional info, so that we know he has completed the surgeon's post op rest. What kind of water therapy does he get at PT clinic? Underwater treadmill? You can learn more about water therapy at clinic and and home here: 🚩 Water therapy: dodgerslist.com/surgery-dog-water-therapy/Here is an idea of what it is to re-introduce a dog back into family life and physical activity once graduated from post-op surgeon directed rest. You would begin at the exercise level that Jedi is currently on and move forward. GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION Determine how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation from rest. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free rein of the house and yard immediately! LOL Your dog's muscles are soft and out of shape after the rest period. Take a look at our information. Gradually building your dogs muscles over a month's time will have your dog safely running and having fun again! SAMPLE SCHEDULE Here is a sample schedule to safely and slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity in your home: dodgerslist.com/back-friendly/DIY back PROTECTION around the house  1) Good ideas in making your home back friendly: dodgerslist.com/home-protect-ivdd-backs/2) Ideas and products to provide improved traction since Jedi still a bit wobbly sometimes and may be on smooth floors in your home. dodgerslist.com/traction-solution-improvements/3) Teach your dog to be safe and not jumping up or down, but to use a ramp whether over steps leading outdoors or to furniture in the house.  Dogs are best at visual learning rather than verbal commands. Dog trainer Anna Jane Grossman says “Dogs learn in pictures. Inside your dog’s brain is a very simple algorithm – pleasant images in one place and unpleasant images in another."
How to train for no shortcuts off the ramp:
HAPPY DAYS AHEAD 1) You and your dog have survived a disc herniation! Learn what you can do from this point forward. Especially good to use with youngsters who may be around your dog to help them understand the disease 🚩 dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/ivdd-6-Life-with-IVDD-Dodgerslist.pdf 2) Now for the everyday living with an IVDD dog things. Lots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog such as dentals, nail trims, safe ways to have fun together, and more: dodgerslist.com/after-graduation-living-with-ivdd/ Try to avoid things that cause abrupt stopping or zig zagging. Jumping up or jumping down are also things to avoid. You may be able to train Jedit to have an appropriate safe level of joy with his ball. If, not you might be able to retrain him to like a different kind of toy or a different kind of game. PT THERAPY AT CLINIC or HOME Safety first. You should always consult with a veterinarian before starting any exercise program with your dog. -- At home daily massage and range of motion. Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain the muscles with lost nerve connection. Therapy keeps muscles in optimal condition while in wait to receive regenerating axon terminals. -- Strengthening core muscles. This applies not just for humans, but REALLY applies to the IVDD dog: "...improve the strength and coordination of the muscles that surround the spine so they can act like the world's greatest back and neck brace. www.spineuniverse.com/conditions/spondylosis " Core exercises don't require specialized equipment. These are 4 exercises you can do at home: 1) Sit toStand, 2) Down to Stand, 3) Three Leg Stand, 4) Backing UP. The last exercise presented in the video,⚠️ HIP extension, exercise is NOT for dogs with IVDD back disease! Not aware of any reason mentioned in the years since 2007 I've been here that swimming is not safe for an IVDD dog. In what specific manner were you told it is not safe? Walking in a low water level area of water, would really provide extra exercise for those back legs. The water level thing is is the same principal used in underwater treadmill. Link at top of this post more fully explains underwater treadmill benefits. QUICK REPLY: Easy, fast and recommended! Go to the "Quick reply" typing area at bottom of your dog's thread to write a reply. No need to quote an entire post. Use your own words and maybe 1-2 words of reference if needed to make the sentence clearer. We only want to read your words in your post. Quick reply allows you to scroll up and down to a previous post and then back down to the "Quick Reply" typing area to continue your own post. |
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Post by Stephanie & Jedi on Oct 10, 2024 14:52:16 GMT -7
Hi there, yes he is doing the underwater treadmill at therapy. He has done it twice now, will do again tomorrow. I think he got up to .5 mph last time. His walking is very good.
When I ask about swimming I am not talking about hydrotherapy or "walking" in the water in any way shape or form, I am talking about SWIMMING. Like in a pool, feet nowhere near the bottom. If you google ivdd dogs and swimming you will find info that it is contraindicated. I am trying to find anyone with opinions or experience for or against.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 10, 2024 18:37:48 GMT -7
Updated comment 10/12/24:
Could the hesitancy of allowing swimming in a pool be involved with the act of getting into and out of the swimming pool?
Some years ago Dodgerslist asked about swimming in a pool after completing the post-op rest period. The neuro surgeon replied: "Swimming in a pool 8 weeks post surgery would be ok as long as getting in and out of the pool does not cause excessive stress or manipulation."
All IVDD dogs need protection of their prematurely aging discs. That is the reason jumping up or down is not a good idea and the reason for ramps at home. The reason to provide safety of keeping their backs horizontal to the ground.
There is same concern about safety of the prematurely aging discs for an IVDD dog when entering or exiting a swimming pool.
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I've not come across information that swimming is contraindicated for a dog who was born with IVDD.
After a surgery or after completing conservative treatment some therapists use swimming.
-- For a dog with impaired legs, the water therapy of underwater treadmill is unsurpassed. Treadmill targets practicing of learning to perfect walking.
-- Swimming is a very good exercise. However, swimming does not target the practicing of learning to perfect walking.
So if swimming exercises are safe and advised after a surgery or after completion of conservative treatment as recovery therapy, then what is the reported danger you are finding that makes swimming as a regular exercise, a life long activity as outlined below a bad thing?
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He walks great, still wobbly but some days better than others. Overall in GREAT shape for being 4 weeks out.
