Brian's Damon 8/9 NECK spinal tumor Basenji-chi , GRAD 10/4

Brian, welcome!  We are glad you are here to learn about your dog's disease and make good decisions and give the best care you can to ensure a good recovery of the disc and current nerve damage of wobbly walking.

Let us know you are doing the SINGLE most important of care during non-surgical conservative treatment---- the strict rest part.

STRICT rest means:
    ◼︎Eats/drinks in the recovery suite
    ◼︎Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress the size (❗️only large enough to fully stretch out legs when lying down) and more tips here:  https://dodgerslist.com/strict-rest-recovery-process/
    ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you
    ◼︎no chiro therapy WHYs: dodgerslist.com/chiropractic/
    ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times.
    ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc
    ◼︎ avoid dangerous detours. Follow the "Roadmap." Tape it to your fridge. D/L and print out:
 dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf
    ◼︎ Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment.
    ◼︎ POTTY TIME strictness
    Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps.
    Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over.



MONITOR NEURO FUNCTIONS for surgery vs. conservative
As damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example.
     Nerves do heal in the exact opposite order nerve damage occured.
1. Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing swelling
2. 8/9 Wobbly walking
    __legs cross
3. __Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. __Paws knuckle under. Dog is slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all
5. __Weak/little leg movement,
    __ can't move up into a stand
6. __Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. __Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted.
        Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. __Tail wagging with joy is lost
9. __Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment.

If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy.

Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance.
    Precious hours can be lost with a general vet who gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS.

2 IMPORTANT READINGs
    1 🚩A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery:
dodgerslist.com/surgery-vs-conservative/

   2  🚩Dr. Isaacs indepth Interview on surgery and conservative treatment:
dodgerslist.com/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers/

-- Surgery immediately relieves the pressure with neuro diminishment by removing offending disc material.
-- Conservative treatment relieves pressure on the spinal cord nerves with an anti-inflammatory drug in about 7-30 days.  The disc heals under Conservative treatment with very STRICT limited movement and time of 8 weeks.
    Damaged nerves in the spinal cord heal with time after a surgery or conservative treament. Best to think in terms of months rather than days/weeks for this slowest part of the body to heal.

Brian from your reporting of neuro diminishment of wobbly walking only (no knuckling under paw), still has bladder control, Damon can be a good candidate to heal with conservative treatment.  It all depends on YOU, your gaining knowledge and ability to provide  STRICT REST for his healing disc with an expected graduation date of Oct 4.

Fill us in on a few items:
1) What is the Gabapentin formula...how many mgs gabapentin are in on mL of liquid? The answer should be written on the bottle.

2) For how many days is Damon to take Prednisone 10mgs 1x/day. Then the pred taper will begin.  
      You will want a basic understanding of prednisone and how it is used with a disc episode to do you best job of understanding the vet's treatment and ask good questions.  Please check out this information: dodgerslist.com/steroids-vs-nsaids/

3) Do Damon's paws knuckle under, can't correct the paw or is slow to correct it?


4) What date did you begin the STRICT REST to limit movement of the spine?

Thank you for registering!  Please first login with your password and email and then post.  With registration comes your ability to bookmark Damon's thread to receive an email alert when someone has replied.

  With your next logged in post,  Damon will be moved to the Conservative Board. And you will then be able to set up auto email alerts.

Brian, with STRICT rest even if Damon is able to correct a knuckled under paw, he can still be a candidate to heal his disc.  Nerve healing may take longer than the 8 weeks it takes for the disc to heal.

What date did you or the vet first observe knuckling?  Both rear paws or ....?

The most important part of the prednisone Rx are the number of days before prednisone begins to taper (reduce in mgs and or time per day dosing). 

Can you tell us for how many days the Rx for Pred is. That is how many days will he stay on 10mgs once a day.  A 20-day course of prednisone just does not sound right at all.  Please recheck your bottle.  Pred taper days are no longer working on the swelling.  Taper days serve a different purpose.  Most Pred Rx's are for a 5- or maybe a 7-day course. A 14-day course is also not unusual.  

Here is a handy tip when replying.  Use the Quick Reply typing area at the bottom of the page.  There you will be able to scroll up to look at a question asked and then scroll back down to the quick reply to answer. We only want to read your words in your reply for clarity purposes..  A couple of reference words in your answer will eliminate quoting our questions back to us.  Thanks!

Brian, thank you so much for supplying important information.

I highly recommend making sure you are doing these extra things to help the neck heal:  
🚩 dodgerslist.com/cervical-care-tips/

At potty time see if there is a need to give him support to keep his back aligned and not tipping over,  horizontal to the ground as much as possible. Both a front end sling and a rear end sling may be good support since he knuckles both front paws and the right rear paw/leg "does not work well".

A figure 8 DIY sling works especially well for the male dog anatomy at potty times.

1) DIY sweatshirt sling...can be used for front legs support. You could also use the same concept with cut out leg holes in a long strip of towel: www.lyonpuffpetsit.com/htmlslp/sling.html

2) DIY figure-8 sling:

PREDNISONE TAPER starts Aug 16!
    The pred taper is significant in providing a window into how well cord swelling is being resolved.
    ALL vets must make a guess as to how many day course of pred to RX.  Most will try a 7-day or even a 14-day course.  It is ONLY the taper that proves if all swelling is actually gone. If not gone with evidence of pain or worsening of neuro funtion, then another pred course is needed pronto (hours do matter!)

Your job on the pred taper Fri 8/16 is to monitor for any surfacing pain or worsening of neuro functions.
  --- Typical is for all pain masking meds to be stopped to allow owners a quick and accurate assessment if all painful swelliing is actually gone or not.
       🌗You need to know if you are to stop gabapentin (medication for nerve pain) on Friday 8/16.  Pain meds on board during the taper are a blindfold to the reality if pain is still present but masked by pain meds being on board.
       🌗What is the plan B you and your vet (neuro or your own vet) have made in advance of 8/16?    
           Let us know which vet is supervising the use of prednisone.Should pain surface at night or when your vet is not open, an ER visit is expensive.  A plan B is free.  Could be an emergency RX script you could fill at local 24 hr pharmacy or some extra pred at original dose/ gabapenin at home til the vet opens again.

It is never a good idea to assume things, but without mention of dates, it appears the nerve damage happened all on 8/9?
MONITOR NEURO FUNCTIONS on the pred taper
    As damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example.
    Nerves do heal in the exact opposite order nerve damage occurred.
1. 8/9 Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing spinal cord swelling
2. 8/9 Wobbly walking
    __legs cross
3. __Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. 8/9 both front Paws knuckle under. Dog is slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all
5. 8/9 Weak/little RIGHT rear leg movement,
      __ can't move up into a stand with LEFT rear leg
6.   __Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7.  __Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted.
            Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. __Tail wagging with joy is lost when you specifically do some happy talk.
9. __Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function,
            a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after
             surgery or with conservative treatment.

Fingers crossed on the start of the pred taper 8/16, Damon will not be showing any signs of pain nor any decline of neuro functions.  
    It is known that it might take a range of 7-30 days on pred (not including taper days) before all swelling is resolved.  
    Damon will have had 7 days on pred (excluding any taper days).  Fingers     crossed for you guys!  Please do keep us posted.

Brian, my heart breaks for you with this very devastating news about your dear Damon.

Losing a beloved pet is an ache like no other—it fills everything with grief because he had filled all those places.

The pain of losing a loved one deserves your attention and time to process.  Maybe what Carmen, one of our members, has written about the grieving process will help you, too:  dodgerslist.com/tears-heal-grief/

Now Damon lives in your heart forever. May he soon bring you smiles again, as you think back on all his funny antics and all the years of joy. 

Warmest of ((hugs)) and my sincere condolences.

I am very sorry for your loss of sweet Damon. Please accept my sincere condolences.