Kendra & Miko
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FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 19, 2024 23:46:29 GMT -7
Morning update [6/20]: got her out today with her sling, which she tolerated well. She had a long full pee which seemed to be with intention. Was showing signs of bladder discomfort this morning (thinking maybe she didn't go last night) - vet called and shared some cautious optimism from her still being able to have bladder control and feeling.
QUESTIONS ☆ 1 currently pain? Pain was severe, but have been working with vet to get under control. Was brought in this morning and showed signs of pain and so medication has been adjusted again. Seems much more comfortable. None of the signs below currently, but she has historically (even before this flare) been reactive to being picked up and yelping/nipping. This has broadly made it very difficult to try and feel her bladder or get her back end supported. She has Lupus and we think this might be in part from conditioned fear response to chronic pain from previous flares. That said, we were able to get a sling around her tonight without any reactivity, which I am hoping is a sign of better pain and anxiety control. Shows interest in food and going outside for her short potty breaks.
★2 25lbs Unsure. Estimated somewhere between 15-19 years old.
🔘NSAID (Meloxicam) was discontinued [6/19] today. Prednisone (10mg) - once a day, Omeprazole (10mg) - every 12 hours on an empty stomach >30 min before meal, Pepcid AC (10mg) with food) - once a day, Gabapentin (400mg - up from 200mg as of today) - every 8 hours, Methocarbamol (500mg) - every 8 hours, Clavamox (125mg) once a day - for existing bladder infection that was found on 6/14.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 25lbs 15-19 y.0. crate rest as of 6/16 historically reactive to lifting yelps nipping in remission for Lupus a few yrs ago No leaks nor overflowing TRAVEL CRATE--- switch to wire expen or crate sheet to slide her to crate door. meloxicam as of 6/14. DVM stopped 6/19 due to neuro decline prednisone as of 6/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 10 days, 6/29 taper: _pain _neuro gabapentin ▲400mg 3x/day methocarbamol 500mgs 3x/day Clavamox 125mgs 1x/day for 6/14 UTI Pepcid AC 10mgs 1x/day Omeprazole 10mgs 2x/day]
Veterinarian was concerned about increased neurological dysfunction (estimated to be at stage 3/4 as of this morning, still some slight twitch response when toes are pinched) and transitioned her today (same day - 6/19) to Prednisone (without washout).
She is on both Pepcid AC (10mg) and Omeprazole (10mg) as of today.
☆ 3 -- Does you dog show red flag signs of stomach damage? Not as of now. Shows enthusiasm for food and water. ☆ 4 Taiwan Dog/Formosan Mountain Dog; Miko; Kendra ☆ 5 🔘 Was the diagnosis IVDD (aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc)? Yes. 🔘 -- Is the vet a general DVM? Yes. 🔘 -- or a specialist surgeonHave not gone this route since we have chosen not to go surgical. ☆ 6 🔘 What was the date you saw the vet for CONSERVATIVE treatment? Miko was seen today (6/19) and on 6/14. Crate rest began on 6/15 after finding this website/resources. 🔘 or date of SURGERY? n/a
☆ 7 🔘 bladder control? I would love advice on this topic. We rushed her into the vet this morning thinking that she had not voided in 24 hours. Vet techs tried to help us express the bladder, but at the time her stomach was extremely tense and they were uncomfortable with proceeding and referred to vet. Vet examined her and said that her bladder seemed empty, making us think that she must have voluntarily voided earlier that morning, even though we had crawled around in the bush she had chosen looking for any wet spots and had found none. Her hind end also didn't seem to be wet. Tonight, we took her out with a puppy pad at the vet's suggestion to attempt to monitor, but we didn't make it over. In short, we're having trouble figuring out if she is actually voiding or not. I feel very silly about this issue (that it should be obvious). Extremely anxious about this issue and doing everything we can to prevent damage to her bladder, especially given that she started with a UTI and is also now getting on Prednisone. She was on Prednisolone for years until her Lupus went into remission a few years ago and tolerated it very well - not sure what to expect this time around.
We have had no leaks or overflow so far.
Should we avoid letting her drag her back legs? Should a sling be used at all times during potty breaks or is it ⚠️okay to let her drag a little bit? She doesn't like to be picked up and will often thrash when we try so we've been carrying her travel crate (what we've been using to confine) out to the grass, but it does have a bit of sway in the bottom. We then coax her out and she drags herself out and we then attempt to help with the sling. Is this the safest way to be doing this?
☆ 8 Currently, cannot wobbly walk. She was last able to about [6/18ish?] 36 hours ago. Showed some ability to move legs slightly as of this morning. Saw some tail movement tonight when out on short sling walk for potty, but have not otherwise today.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 20, 2024 12:32:35 GMT -7
Welcome Kendra! Good to hear pain meds were adjust to give comfort round the clock night and day. If pain is not in control night and day, then get back with the vet for further adjustments. Prednisone is a KEY medication. We'll need make sure we confirm and know accurate information. Date Pred started: June 19th?Doses on start date: 10mg 1x/day For How many days is this dose to be Rx'd prior to a reduction in mgs or times/ per day?What country are you in?There must be a reason for the neuro decline. OFten is it can be due to an owner not realizing just how strict rest for the disc must be. Too much movement can cause the disc to re-tear thus seriously impacting the spinal cord.
Let us know that you are on board with just how STRICT the rest must be: The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. ▶︎ Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-processKnowledge is key! Owner understanding ensures proper conservative treatment principals: ▶︎ 4 phases of healing, what it takes to heal each phase: dodgerslist.com/healing-the-disc/▶︎ Roadmap for your fridge. Stay the course, avoid dangerous detours for the healing disc: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdfSTRICT rest means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy ◼︎no dragging legs at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc POTTY TIME strictness If a 25lbs dog is too heavy for you to carry her in a safe way, one where she feels secure, then check out out our LARGE BREED care tips for other options for potty time. Example, pee pad is adjacent to the recovery suite. Where only a few footsteps with front legs and use of a sling gets her to the pee pad. More detail on this page: dodgerslist.com/large-dog-care-tips-ivdd/IF, you can safely carry her to potty: Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. i0.wp.com/dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Potty-leash-harness400-19kb.jpgSNIFF and PEE TEST The "sniff and pee test" is the only way for humans to determine whether bladder control exists. Carry the dog outdoors, set her down on an old pee spot for a sniff. Make sure that neither the sling nor your hands are on the stomach region as this could put pressure on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, that is bladder control proof. Visualize your dog's neuro problem in 83 seconds.Dr. Horsche, DVM explains intervertebral disc disease. IVDD can cause symptoms ranging from mild lower back pain to complete paralysis of the legs. Visualize how the spinal cord is impacted by a degenerated disc. As a dog moves, the vertebrae also move! MONITORING NEURO FUNCTIONS and keep your vet updated by phone of any new or increased diminishment. There can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example. Nerves do heal in the exact opposite order nerve damage occured. 1. Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing swelling 2. Wobbly walking legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. _?_ Paws knuckle under. Dog is slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all 5. _?_Weak/little leg movement to be able reposition her body in the suite, _?__can't move up into a stand 6. ___Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. ___ Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. __Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. __Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a general vet who gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. 🚩A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: dodgerslist.com/surgery-vs-conservative/ 🚩Dr. Isaacs indepth Interview on surgery and conservative treatment: dodgerslist.com/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers/Keep us posted on how Miko is doing. Your vet is doing the right thing, double protecting the stomach lining with the switch over to the more powerful anti-inflammatory class....a steroid like Prednisone. Dogs can self heal their neuro damage with time. The SINGLE most important of care is that of STRICT Limited movement back Rest to allow the disc to self heal and not further compromise the spinal cord.
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 20, 2024 13:03:46 GMT -7
Hello! Thanks for such a prompt response. I'll do my best to answer to all the questions - let me know if anything is missing.
Date Pred started: June 19th? Yes. Doses on start date: (I made a mistake with this last night - was quite sleep deprived. She's on 5mg every 12 hours. We started last night (June 19th). It [Rx]was prescribed for 10 days, with a decrease to once a day for 10 days, then step down to every other day. However, I think us and our vet are open to increasing these timelines as needed, as she has tolerated steroid treatment so well in the past.
USA, California - Sacramento area.
We've been doing our absolute best with this since we realized it was likely IVDD (June 15th). She has historically been really fussy about wanting to walk around a lot before voiding, so we've been trying to do our best to balance that out. Even so, all outside trips have been kept to under 5 minutes. She is now accepting a sling, so we're doing better at getting her not to drag her back legs - how bad is leg dragging? Aside from twice a day trips outside to void (her usual schedule), she has been in her crate 24/7, aside from her trips to the vet. Ah, I see. I hope this isn't what made it worse. Hopefully we can almost completely avoid this now that she is accepting the sling.
Not sure how to check [sniff and pee test] this without a sling on her since she has no ability to stand. She last peed while wearing her sling, but her posture changed as though she was trying to squat, and it was quite a long/full pee. She also seemed to be asking to go out/expressing discomfort beforehand and settled down for a nap afterwards - which we hope suggests bladder sensation.
1. Pain with initial tear of disc. We think pain started on roughly the 9th, but we weren't aware of IVDD or what to look for. She seemed to be improving until she tried to hop up on the couch on the 14th. She spent most of her day in her bed on the 15th, but was moving around the house a little bit. Started crate rest on the 16th once we became aware of IVDD and the suggested treatment plan. 2. Wobbly walking The 17th. legs cross
4. She seemed to mostly skip this [knuckle] stage. 5. ~17th - 18th morning.Weak/little leg movement to be able reposition her body in the suite,![](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/bbcode/strikethrough.png) ~ afternoon of 18th can't move up into a stand 6. As of our last vet visit, 19th, she showed some slight ability to move her paws away from a toe pinch. 7. She started leaking when touched or with attempts to pick up on the 15th. She does seem to still have bladder control though, although we're not sure if it's been consistent or spotty. See previous posts. 8. Unsure. Some tail movement yesterday night on sling walk. Mostly seems to be gone.
Thank you! Please let us know if you have any other thoughts or tips. We're willing to do whatever is best/she can tolerate without significant distress.
Here is a photo from the front of her crate for reference on size/how much she can move. ![]() It was rezipped up after taking this photo.
![](https://i.ibb.co/TgSyhF9/20240619-181150.jpg)
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 20, 2024 14:10:37 GMT -7
You are doing the very best thing for Miko by putting her on strict crate rest 24/7 out only for potty and vet visits.. It is the immobility enforced by crate rest that allows the disc to heal.
The crate should only be large enough for the dog to stand up, turn around and stretch out the legs fully when lying down. I can't tell from the picture if your crate meets this criteria.
Miko may be regaining bladder control, but if you see wet bedding or leaking when lifted, she must be expressed. Stale urine in the bladder causes health issues. Expressing is a skill and must be practiced to be learned. Many of our members struggled with it in the beginning. I certainly did. Do not hesitate to get another lesson from the vet tech. I needed more than one.
Express frequently as you are learning, since you may not be getting all the urine out at first. Try different positions like standing while supported or lying on her side to see which one works best. You will know you are getting it right when you see a steady stream and there is no wet bedding or leaking. I don't know if you have had a chance to review the expressing information we have here: dodgerslist.com/bladder-bowel-care/
Taking her out to sniff and pee will let you know if she is regaining bladder control. You should do this more often than you would usually do it, because she is on pred which makes dogs drink more and thus pee more. In the beginning, as she is in the process of regaining bladder control, try a quick express check after every urination. This will ensure the bladder is completely empty.
Leg dragging while pottying is bad. It just too much movement during a disc episode and could cause further injury to the healing disc. Since Miko is now okay with the sling, there should be no opportunity for dragging. She should be able to pee normally with the sling. The sling should not be covering the urethral area. If you find you cannot adjust the sling to avoid this, consider using a figure 8 sling. We have information about how to make one at the link below under potty time: dodgerslist.com/strict-rest-recovery-process/
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 20, 2024 15:34:41 GMT -7
Thanks for the further guidance. We did observe some brown marks on her towel this morning that we used to pad her bed with overnight - assuming this might be a little bit of loose stool and have informed the vet who didn't seem to concerned. It was pretty slight, whatever it was. She does have pre-existing issues with not properly expressing her anal glands/leakage of them when full - some possibility it could be that.
We just offered her an extra outside per your guidance and she did well in her sling. We saw some happy tail wags (yay!), but still immobilized back legs. She did not urinate, but we have also not seen any leaks or wet bedding. This is not super unusual for her even when fully mobile as she is so picky about where she pees. We're hoping maybe giving her an extra chance and re-crating her if she doesn't go within a few minutes will teach her to be less choosy. Will try again later tonight. She honestly never had a huge change in urge/urinary frequency or water drinking when she was on Pred previously. A bit worried about offering an extra outing every day and possibly injuring her with the extra movement.
Is it appropriate to use this forum to log each outing and daily updates?
What does stretch out the legs fully mean? Her crate is the dimensions of her usual dog bed and she was used to sleeping in at night before this all came on, so I assume she has enough room. Just wanting to double check. She can't move much beyond standing up and turning in it. The vet has also encouraged us to provide some extra padding to her bed to prevent pressure sores - what do you recommend for this?
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 20, 2024 17:14:16 GMT -7
Kendra, here are some things you look at in addition to the handy tips in post above. STOMACH issuesBe watchful for any signs of Prednisone damage (lip licking, nausea, not eating, loose stool, etc.) Both omeprazole and Pepcid AC do the same thing--- suppress stomach acids. It takes omeprazole 3-5 days to reach peak efficiency then it is supposed to be very good. Pepcid AC works in 30 mins. An Rx for 🚩 Sucralfate would be the med to be added in should you detect any hint of GI issues starting to happen. It works in a very different way than omeprazole and Pepcid AC. It will be worth your while to be "in the know" about stomach protectors: dodgerslist.com/stomach-protection/ SIZE of Recovery SUITE. Do you have just a flat mattress that does not have the pillow sides to it? The bolster is taking up precious suite space that Miko needs to fully stretch out her legs when lying down. You can find 4" foam at your local fabric shops to make a mattress. Enclose it into a trash bag so no liquids can damage the foam. Setting up recovery suite mattress plus MORE to make rest go smoother:
Most dogs do best in a wire suite during the day where the visibility is not hindered as in the one she is in now (it would make a good bedtime suite). An ex-pen might be easy for you to care for Miko getting her in and out? A wire suite is also good. POTTY TIME Do whatever you can do to limit potty time to the bare minimal footsteps (no walking around for 5 minutes!) You might want to set up an ex-pen or other type of gardening fence in a 6' diameter area in the grass or even on your deck right outside the sliding glass door as a potty place. Snow, astro turf, some sod, makes a good potty place. -- IF potty place is on your deck, use combo of white vinegar and water in a watering can to cleanse. Vinegar takes away the smell of urine as the acidity kills bacteria. ⚠️White vinegar can kill grasss/landscaping if you have 'em under the deck. That way Miko has the physical and visual knowledge that there is not going to be any sniff festing at potty time. Just the fewest of footsteps to take care of business. More options for dogs not easy to carry to and from the potty place: dodgerslist.com/large-dog-care-tips-ivdd/ ![https://i.postimg.cc/MZrsPYQb/pottytime-deck.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/MZrsPYQb/pottytime-deck.jpg)
Mark your calendar:-- Graduation Day from STRICT limited movement to heal the disc is 8 weeks from 6/16 on: August 11th -- Important prednisone TAPER begin date is June 29th. Read up on how prednisone is used with a disc episode. 🚩 dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/ 1) What your job at home on 6/29 is 2) Getting prepared ahead of time with your vet for a plan B if he is not open at night or on the weekend if Miko needs help. Let us know your plan B.
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 20, 2024 22:19:05 GMT -7
Took her out for a nighttime pee; could not find any self-expressed urine. My husband and I both attempted to manually express urine but had no luck. Plan to try again in a few hours and call the vet in the morning if we still see no signs. Did see some tail wag.
Have put some padding in her bed to make it more flat for tonight and have ordered a new flat dog bed.
We live within quick driving distance to a 24/7 emergency vet for Plan B.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 21, 2024 8:08:54 GMT -7
Kendra, For us humans to know what a tail wag or other movements of legs, release of urine means, we need to see some sort of head level involvement. --- leg or tail movement during potty time is often a reflex caused movement. --- A sniff (head level) and a release of urine shows the brain was involved to control release of urine. --- Miko hearing (head level) your happy talk to her or seeing you (head level) and then you observe a tail wag, shows us the brain directed the movement of the happy tail wag. PREDNISONE TAPER -- For a disc episode, no one knows how long pred needs to be used to get the root cause of the painful swelling gone. Vets just have to guess if a 10-day course will do the job. The taper tells the answer. -- It often will take in the range of 7- 30 days on prednisone at the anti-inflammatory level. Taper days are not up at the anti-inflammatory level.... taper doses are too low and they are not counted in the 7-30 days. It may take a couple of courses adding up to the usual range. -- This steroid hormone med must be tapered to signal the body to again produce its own steroid hormone (Cortisol). -- During the pred taper process, this is a perfect window for verifying if another pred course is needed. Your job at home is to monitor for surfacing pain and any new or increased neuro loss. -- Pain meds on board with the pred taper will naturally blindfold you about pain. Normally, pain meds would be stopped on the same date as the start of the pred taper 6/29. -- With any TAPER, it is always good to have worked out in advance a "PLAN B" with your vet should pain re-surface at night or on the weekend when your vet is not open. Could be an emergency RX script you could fill at local 24 hr pharmacy or some extra pills at home til the vet opens again. An ER visit to get meds adjusted is expensive, being prepared with a "Plan B" is free! -- The risk vs. benefit for vet visits need to be weighed. Transport risk to the healing disc vs. a phone update and a med adjustment. -- The single most important part of care is the part at home in the recovery suite where there is limited movement of the back. Every time the vertebrae move, discs are pressured including the disc trying to heal. RULE OF THUMB on a pred taper Pain/neuro decline = another course of PRED + all pain meds, GI protectors back on board. No Pain= go to TAPER conclusion...finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal. 1) What is your plan B should you observe surfacing of pain or neuro decline during the taper?
2) What does your vet want on the pred taper on 6/29: -- Full stop of pain meds (gabapentin & methocarbamol)? -- Reduction of mgs and x/day dose for all pain meds? 3) Let us know the details of the tail movement: -- Did you do some happy talk to her or did she see you approaching her? -- Did you see the tail movement when at potty time?
Hope you are able to figure out if Miko needs you to express her bladder or if you can confirm with the sniff and pee test that she now does have a degree of bladder control.
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 21, 2024 11:25:42 GMT -7
Hello again, Miko showed signs of discomfort at 4am (6/21) and we took her out to attempt to pee and attempted to express her to no avail. Tried again around 9am with no luck.
Got in for another appointment at the vet. Husband took her solo. He says that right as they entered the yard outside the veterinary office, Miko sniffed intensely and then voided.
The veterinary team then attempted to model how to express her but couldn't feel her bladder - they brought out ultrasound to double check positioning and if she still had urine in the bladder. Two vet techs and a veterinarian attempted to express out the rest of the urine and couldn't get out the rest of the urine - apparently she has an 'extremely pelvic' (very far back) bladder that's extremely hard to grasp.
The vet did examine her and said that she has 'very good muscle tone' and said that the nerve problems may be causing too much muscle tension and making it difficult for her to go. She was sent home with a prescription for ✙Prazosin at 2mg, twice a day. She advised us to bring her back to the clinic or urgent care if she goes without voiding for any 24 hour period.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 25lbs 15-19 y.0. crate rest as of 6/16 historically reactive to lifting yelps nipping No leaks nor overflowing TRAVEL CRATE--- switch to wire expen or crate meloxicam as of 6/14. DVM stopped 6/19 due to neuro decline prednisone as of 6/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 10 days, 6/29 taper: _pain _neuro gabapentin 400mg 3x/day methocarbamol 500mgs 3x/day ✙Prazosin 2mg 2x/day Clavamox 125mgs 1x/day for 6/14 UTI Pepcid AC 10mgs 1x/day Omeprazole 10mgs 2x/day]
Tail movement has been at potty time. Unsure about taper schedule, will get that information. Feeling very at wit's end with this new curve ball of being unable to express the bladder.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 21, 2024 13:19:29 GMT -7
I am sorry that you are having so much trouble expressing Miko. Some dogs are just harder to express. Your vet prescribed Prazosin to make expressing easier. Prazosin helps decrease the internal urethral sphincter tone, making it easier to press on the bladder and overcome the sphincter which keeps the bladder closed. This may make expressing more successful.
Another easy tip to try from one of our moderators is to put a towel warm from the dryer on the stomach to help the muscles relax. Tapping gently on the tummy to jiggle the muscles will also help relax a tight tummy.
A tail wag in response to a treat or happy talk indicates a neuro function returning. Be on the lookout for that. A tail wag around potty time is just reflex.
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 21, 2024 22:15:13 GMT -7
Dosed with Prazosin with and then took her outside about an hour later. We acquired a small doggy pen to try and bait her into going, but she seemed confused and chose just to stand there for several minutes - she seems a bit disoriented (I assume by Praz). We then tried to manually express her to no avail. Eventually gave up and let her gently walk and sniff a bit and she chose a spot soon after, she still sort of rounds her back and tries to squat when she does chose to pee - there's a noticeable posture change which seems to indicate still being able to go. Not sure what we can do if she does loose that control since her bladder seems to be so recessed in her pelvis. Sigh.
On the plus side, her new crate bed is in as you recommended, and she is resting in a way looks more flat and with much more limb room. My husband immediately said she looked more comfortable - thank you for the suggestion.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 22, 2024 10:06:16 GMT -7
Kendra, thank you for the details on how she peed. YES, YES, she has bladder control! Next time spike the interior of the outdoor 6 foot diameter pen area with piece of a urine stained paper towel. Let her sniff inside the pen area. Command "go potty". She may only take FOOTSTEPS in the small pen area. Walking, even if gentle, requires too many footsteps each with opportunity for the vertebrae to press on the disc. When she attempts to release urine, praise generously. Soon she will learn to go potty on command. You are in charge, she is not....only allow minimal FOOTSTEPS at potty time. In a couple of minutes, if she has not released urine, then back inside. Again, try pottytime in an hour or two. Be strict about the footsteps at pottytime plus avoid or reduce back movement for everything else. Even vet visits MUST be very seriously weighed for risk to the healing disc. Most vets who know IVDD and understand especially for a dog not liking to be lifted will take phone calls for updates, for requests to adjust meds. Your job is to be detailed and accurate with information and word so that a vet knows they can depend on what you observe with the date. You are his eyes and ears at your home, same as you are ours on this side of the computer screen. Better than using your memory is documenting things on a med chart. Med chart A medication chart is useful to see patterns, have dates and specific facts handy as you discuss things with the vet. D/l a sample and a blank form to use with your dog's meds dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/med-chart-printable.pdfWith care to the necessary STRICT limited movement of the back type of rest, you are playing in instrumental part in her ability to heal her disc and very likely preventing a relapse to disc healing....and preventing a decline in neuro function. Wonderful to hear you did find the right size mattress for the recovery suite.... that will make the rest of the eight weeks better for Miko's comfort!! Don't forget to use QUICK REPLY: Easy, fast and recommended for this Forum! Go to the " Quick reply" typing area at bottom of your dog's thread to write a reply.
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 24, 2024 16:29:38 GMT -7
Hello again! On 4/22 [6/22/24], Miko woke us up in the middle of the night with a loud coughing fit that lasted about 20 minutes. Got a hold of the vet a few hours later - they suspect possible aspiration pneumonia from her attempting to eat and drink while laying down. Wanted us to bring her in for a chest x-ray but we were concerned about moving her again - decided to add another antibiotic and monitor closely. Her cough is still present, but has become less frequent and resolves much more quickly. New added antibiotic is ✙Doxycycline 100mg, once a day for ten days; began dosing with her dinner on 4/22 [6/22/24].
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 25lbs 15-19 y.0. crate rest as of 6/16 historically reactive to lifting yelps nipping No leaks nor overflowing meloxicam as of 6/14. DVM stopped 6/19 due to neuro decline prednisone as of 6/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 10 days, 6/29 taper: _pain _neuro gabapentin 400mg 3x/day methocarbamol 500mgs 3x/day Prazosin 2mg 2x/day ✙Doxycycline 100mg 1x/day ends 7/2: possible aspiration pneumonia Clavamox 125mgs 1x/day for 6/14 UTI Pepcid AC 10mgs 1x/day Omeprazole 10mgs 2x/day]
On 4/23 [6/23/24], we saw our first tail wag! She saw us preparing her dinner and responded with a few wags. Her posture also seems improved - she seems more upright when she sits up in her crate and when attempting to move around.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 25, 2024 13:12:51 GMT -7
What good news that you saw a happy tail wag! A happy tail wag bodes well for future healing.
I hope that Miko's pneumonia resolves quickly. If it was caused by aspiration, see if she will eat while supported with her sling.
How is she doing with sniffing and peeing? After the happy tail wag, the typical order of function return would be bladder and bowel control. Give her lots of chances to sniff and pee.
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 25, 2024 20:58:55 GMT -7
She has been able to sniff and pee with regularity over the past few days.
Regarding pneumonia, the vet advised that we try to have her eat in the sling, but she had a negative reaction the one time we tried. We've since been having her eat from a sitting position. Is that similarly safe?
And yes, thanks for catching my typo in my last post. 6/22 not 4/22.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,793
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 26, 2024 9:14:19 GMT -7
Kendra, choking/aspiration happens when the food goes down the wrong way. Sitting on her butt when eating would be a preferable position to eat than lying down. Standing, sitting can avoid food/liquids getting into the airway. Eating too fast can also allow food to go down the wrong way into the lungs. Attach her water/food bowls at head height inside the recovery suite. DIY idea: Keep us posted on what your husband observed back on 6/21 vet visit where he saw her SNIFF and then she released urine. The SNIFF part (head level involvement) with a release of urine is " the" proof if there is bladder control. Update us and let us know what the usual is. What you observe today.... is there is a SNIFF and then a release of urine?
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Kendra & Miko
New Member
FEMALE - Taiwan Dog (Formsan Mtn Dog)
Posts: 9
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Post by Kendra & Miko on Jun 26, 2024 16:27:43 GMT -7
Hello! Yes, we have had several potty breaks now where she has sniffed, moved the top half of legs/hips out (like the top half of a squat position, without the lower leg control) and then pee'd.
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