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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 3, 2024 4:47:46 GMT -7
Hi Friends,
This is our IVDD journey, and its ongoing. Thanks for making this space for us.
Toast just turned 5 years old, is a beautiful pug/pek mix, (9.1kg) and has been healthy and happy.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 9.1kg 5 y.o. ]
Last week, on Monday, March 25, he did his normal whine one hour before dinner time dance, and went to jump on my lap while I was working at my desk. He yelped and growled as I caught him in my arms, but I thought nothing of it and he seemed just fine. The rest of the evening was normal.
The following day, Tuesday, March 26, my husband picked him up (a normal thing) and he yelped again. After that, he began to move extremely slowly and stayed in his bed. We should have gone in to the vet right away, but we just thought he tweaked his back a tiny bit and he would be okay with rest. We had gabapentin here, so we gave him a pill a day, and by Saturday and Sunday, he was playing and happy, but not 100%. We thought we were fine.
Monday, April 1, he declined very quickly. He began to wobble a bit in his back legs, and would not rest on his bed. We went into the ER that evening, and they diagnosed IVDD and gave us the option to do conservative treatment at home or surgery. Since he was technically between level 2 and 3, we thought he would do better at home. He was given opiods and a fetanyl patch, with further anti-inflammatories. Throughout the day, he whined excessively, and although he went potty in the morning, but would not go throughout the day, and his back legs gave out during potty time and he fell over. We knew then we needed to go back in.
It's now Wednesday, April 3, and he had his CT Scan and is now in surgery. He has a disk hernia in his mid back, close to cranial. It's one singular disk, but it's quite large, so they will be removing all the material. They informed me that he would be doing physio every two hours, but not through the night, and they would update me after surgery. They also said because of this, it's a good prognosis.
We are beside ourselves, and so upset we waited so long. His sister is very confused without him here. We're getting the house ready for his return, and are so anxious about ensuring he has the best care ever.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 3, 2024 9:11:44 GMT -7
Welcome! Alexi, do I have your name right? I'm Paula. I'm sorry to hear your young boy was discovered to be born with IVDD. It is pretty typical that about 4-7 years old is when owner and vet first learn with usually signs of pain or even some neuro diminishment. It is thought there is a genetic component to IVDD. I tell you this because some dogs will only have one disk episode their entire life. While other dogs might have multiple so you would want to know all you can about this disease while you're getting ready to have toast come home. This is your chance to bone up on his disease and learn how to set up his recovery suite to make the surgeon directed post-op rest go smoother. And to be watchful about his sister.... are these two genetically related? Shortcut Thru IVDD: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/Many tips and ideas to get ready for Toast's homecoming and post-op rest: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/I bet your mind is flooded right now with concerns, questions. Now is the time to jot those things down. Here's a starter list of questions to which you can add some of your concerns to ask your surgeon: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/03/discharge-day-list/This page is good reading by Dr. Isaacs, ACVIM (neurology) as he explains many post-op questions for our IVDD community: meds, crate rest, PT and discharge day. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/12/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers/Let us know too anything else we might specifically comment on to ease your mind, make care easier, etc. As you learn more from the surgeon, would you keep us updated on how Toast is doing post-op. What country are you in?
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 4, 2024 8:14:33 GMT -7
Hi Paula.
This website has been a wealth of knowledge, and we've gotten zero to no direction yet from the vet/surgeon about what aftercare will mean or look like, so having these pieces of information in advance has been so helpful. Thank you.
We are American expats who moved to Copenhagen, Denmark, for my job. The language barrier is minimal but still present. And yes - his sister is from the same exact litter. We already have ramps and steps to access higher furniture items in the house, because I have always wanted to protect their backs, but that hasn't stopped them from jumping when excited, etc. That will be difficult to mitigate.
We got a call from the surgeon today [4/4] updating us on Toast. He said Toast seems to be managing pain well with the meds, and that he is able to stand on his own for about 20 seconds. He still has a catheter in, but they mentioned taking it out this evening to see if he is able to go on his own or not. He is staying another night at least to get the more intensive physio today. We're so lost without him home, but also so nervous about him coming home and us not being capable to care for him well. We came here and have no family members or even friends yet; we are both worried about managing work and our loved baby. He is worth everything, but we do need to maintain our jobs in order to pay for this massive bill and upcoming expenses. I feel immense guilt.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2024 8:56:00 GMT -7
Alexi, we look forward to whether Toast will have bladder control or not on discharge day to know what home care would look like and what to comment on for you.
Finger's crossed he'll have bladder control. As for leg nerve healing, we know the predictable order but not the length of time for nerve healing. That is up to mother nature, and Toast's body. Often just the surgery, can cause temporary nerve function setback until the surgical caused swelling subsides in about 14 days. Then one can better see the path of healing. Nerve function first starts with ability to feel deep pain sensation (DPS). Did the neuro say if DPS is now back post-op? Or maybe he never lost DPS going into the surgery?
Are your work situations such as to allow one of you to come home for lunch/potty break for Toast if needed? Once we know exact Toast details when he's discharged, we can put our heads together with yours to formulate a doable plan for at home care..
This is a bump in the road of life for sure. Your love for Toast will get you through this, that I have no doubt of.
We look forward to receiving your next update on Toast
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 6, 2024 11:49:55 GMT -7
Hello All! Toast is HOME around 4P. [Sat. 4/6] We almost brought him home yesterday, but opted to give him another day at the vet with intensive physio with the professionals. He got home around 4P - it's now 8:40ish. Whew.
MEDS: - Onsior Tablets, 1 Tablet a day at 7P every night. - Pregabalin 25mg, 1 tablet 3X a day.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 20 lbs/ 9.1kg 5 y.o. Onsior (robenacoxib) as of 4/6: ?mg 1x/day pregabalin 25mgs 3x/day Toast needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of Onsior! ]
1. X ([DPS]fairly certain? he can feel when we pinch between toes)
2. ? This [happy wag] is spotty. Happens here and there. He has more feeling in his right leg than his left, which the surgeon said makes sense based on placement of the disc hernia and such. He came home with a sore on the top of one of his feet from dragging/knuckling [left?], so we're looking to tend to that.
3. is dribbling little bits without knowing, and pooped a smidgen on accident as well. However, when we first got him home, he was super agitated; we put the blanket under his hind legs and he immediately took us to 1) his water dish and 2) the turf pee pad on our balcony. James is able to express his bladder, and we are using an ice cube to help him get his poo out, which was successful this evening. Should we get diapers/belly band? Trying to access green tea bags to start cleaning him up well down there too. 4. _Weak rear leg movement, and then _ability to move up into a stand position on his own, and then _wobbly walking. 5. _Being able to walk with more steadiness and _ properly place the paw without it knuckling under. 6. _Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
We are supposed to do physio with him every two hours for about three minutes, which includes the bouncing with the hindquarters, massaging, bicycle and stretching.
We go back in on 4/8 for a check-in, and potentially a few more times this week, especially for physio check-ins, and then again on 4/16 to specifically check in with the surgeon.
He feels much more himself, but he is SO frustrated about not being able to do what he wants whenever he wants to. We're hoping a really good nights rest at home does a world of good.
We're extremely anxious - at one point when I picked him up to help, he yelped, and I thought maybe I just created another problem in his back and cried. I just want him to be happy.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 6, 2024 12:51:58 GMT -7
Alexi, Toast is only on one pain med Pregabalin (for nerve pain). There are other sources of pain, so have no patience if further signs of pain occur. Call the surgeon's office to report pain and expect an addition of another pain med. Onsior, the anti-inflammatory may take up to 2 weeks to get all the surgery caused swelling to resolve. In the meantime, Toast needs to be able to heal in comfort right away with adjustment to his pain med. See if in Denmark, they will protect the GI tract when on an anti-inflammatory. Pepcid AC (Famotidine) Learn more including the dose. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/ thumb.ibb.co/mEGRuy/91x_Aj_s00z_L_SY355.jpg Did the surgeon himself say Toast has DPS? No need of pinching the toes. DPS indentification is very tricky for a DVM. Trust only the specialist surgeon. You likely will not learn anything from pinching. Tickling toes on the other hand can be part of the passive exercise! Always give Toast first a chance to sniff an old pee spot on the balcony. If nothing comes out when you know he should have to pee then express. How comfortable would you feel with an ice cube on your butt hole? Try a kinder way of expressing for poop. Expressing for poop is so that before mother nature would just let it plop out anywhere, you get there first to encourage poop to clear from the digestive tube to plop out where you desire. Most of us express on the toilet: upon awaking in the morning, maybe at 1-2 pm during the day and again before bedtime. First you should make a chart of eating, poop plopping times and try to figure out when you should be expressing. You really do not need anyone to demonstrate how to express for poop. This video shows how easy it is: In case you would find a review of post-op range of motion, etc. to be helpful... check out his video: Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain those muscles with lost nerve connection and keep the joints flexible while nerve cells regenerate.
Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog:
BELLY wrap They can be useful while you are figuring out if Toast has some bladder control or full bladder control. Same issue with baby diapers as with belly wraps/diapers. Can cause a rash if urine stays too long on the skin/fur. Barrier ointments can help. Choose only those that have NO ZINC in them. Dogs lick everything. Aquaphor Baby, Aquaphor regular Healing Ointment OR Bayer's A+D® Original Ointment contain no ZINC
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 8, 2024 11:36:17 GMT -7
[Copenhagen: Mon 4/8 10pm NY EST: Mon 4/8 4pm] Hi Friends, Thank you for all of this - we took very seriously not continuing to use an icecube.
He had his first appointment back at the vet today with a rehab physio specialist and it was fantastic. While we were there, I made mention of our difficult evening.
Toast woke us up around 1A today [NY EST: Sun 7pm 4/7], and we tried EVERYTHING. He was very upset and whiny. I called the vet to ask about what to do, and they basically said they couldn't tell on the phone and we could come in or wait until our appointment. He finally settled around 4A. We woke up to him having soaked his bed with his pee, and knew that even though we had been doing fine expressing, clearly that was the issue. For the record, at 1A, and multiple times in those three hours, we tried helping him pee and he would not go.
So I asked about a potential UTI. They put a catheter in to get him fully drained and mentioned that everything looked and smelled normal. I said okay, I'm probably just being excessive, and we left around 1PM.
It is now 8PM and we have tried EVERYTHING to get him to pee, and he will not pee. He is very gassy from medication so his belly is already tense. He has been eating and drinking normally. We tried taking him to several of his favorite pee spots and he would not go, whereas before he would just SEE his pee pad and start piddling. We used most if not all of the tips on the page here. We called and they suggested going back in.
I am absolutely exhausted and at my wits end. He is perfect and I know this is a short season, but I am so discouraged after having such a phenomenal session with the physio. I feel so silly for not being able to help him pee, even though it was going just fine the past few days. Just when we think we might have a stable day, something happens. I know it has literally only been three days and I am catastrophizing, but I am so frustrated and sad for him. ----------
[Monday 4/8/2024 2:00PM New York EST] PEED. 8:30P [Copenhagen time] . We will continue to monitor but we're not going to rush him in and have to wait at the ER for hours - we will call in the AM if there is a repeat episode.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 8, 2024 14:49:04 GMT -7
Alexi, when you are able, update and confirm a few things that we might best follow along and make good comments. For how many weeks did the surgeon direct for post-op rest which does include his directives for PT. Often the post-op rest can be for 4 or 6 weeks. What type of PT at the Physio. Do discuss underwater treadmill. The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water buoyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal path ways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.
So it sounds like you are reporting Toast was discharged with ability to pee on his own (has confirmed bladder control)? Evidenced by: At home he could hold urine in, until saw his pee pad then began to pee since being discharged on Sat 4/6? It is frustrating for sure. Continue to observe for his showing you evidence of still having bladder control (can pee by direction of his brain). VS having no bladder control (releases urine by reflexes when lifted, urine found where he sleeps due to an overflowing bladder.) --- some UTI's don't show an odor. Some might show a change in color. Some bladder infections cause painful burning sensation making the dog not want to pee. --- A urinalysis screens for bladder infections and shows if there is a need for an antibiotic. Always give him a chance to pee on his own when you know he should have to pee. IF nothing happens, try again in an hour. At that point, you might be able to help him relax his tummy muscles by applying a warm towel from the dryer. Jiggle his tummy gently too. Maybe then you can try to express with success. Know that a dog who has bladder control will not like you expressing and will likely resist your efforts. I hope you will get a good night's rest and feel up to using your powers to deal with events of the day. Once you get a new routine established, your world changes for the better. Paula (NY EST Monday 4/8 5:44pm)
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 9, 2024 23:37:22 GMT -7
Hi Friends,To answer some questions: he recommended at least two weeks [post-op] until check-up, so we are to keep him relatively immobile with physio every two hours as well. Doesn't seem like a lot of rest, but here we are.
Physio with the professionals has been great and so encouraging. They have the underwater treadmill, and based on his progress, he might be in it tomorrow (4/11).
We thought so [he peed]? We're a bit confused. Even on 4/8 when we were trying to get him to pee, we brought him down to grass and some of his favorite spots (carried) to smell to see if that would help him pee and nothing. Based on the below, we are wondering if we are forcing pee to happen when he just doesn't need to - that he could be somewhat dehydrated?
We ended up actually bringing him in yesterday morning (4/9) because he hadn't peed in 12 hours and we were really worried. His belly was super tense, and so we weren't sure if we were even accessing the bladder, or if he was in extreme pain, or gas, etc. etc. The initial vet intake was worried, but scanned the bladder and there wasn't much if any at all in there. They admitted him and his surgeon was in, along with two others who specialize in IVDD. They called shortly after we dropped him off, and basically told us 1) that they were able to get him to pee and 2) his belly is tight because he is using his abdomen so much to move. They gave him an additional [?] ✙ fentanyl patch in case they were wrong about the pain.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 20 lbs/ 9.1kg 5 y.o. Onsior (robenacoxib) as of 4/6: ?mg 1x/day pregabalin 25mgs 3x/day ✙ fentanyl patch as of 4/9: ?day patch Toast needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of Onsior! ]
The physio then did some laser therapy on him and when he got home, he played gently with a toy in his bed for a little bit.
Last thing: Toast has been ALWAYS extremely food centered/motivated. We actually think that when he is waking up and whining, it is about food. Because we've been taking it easy based on how tired he has been throughout the day, he isn't as tired at night; and then whines until "breakfast." We're going to be consistent with physio every two hours today and see if that keeps him asleep. We'll still get up when he whines to check on potty needs/water/etc. because it would be cruel not to, but we're worried he may be a little manipulative? He used to whine early AM before the surgery, but we would tell him its not time, and he would go back to sleep.
My sister-in-law is visiting from the US on Saturday, and I'm going to have her bring Pepcid and see if maybe that takes some pressure off his belly as well.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2024 10:25:06 GMT -7
Alexi, so the surgeon group did see him pee on his own 4/9? (that means they did not express, but allowed him to release urine on his own.) If so, good to know then that he still has bladder control. Hopefully covering possible pain from the surgical caused procedure by giving a Fentanyl patch will give full comfort from pain.
What is the length of the patch effectiveness. Is it a 3-day patch or ....?
Let us know how Toast takes to the underwater treadmill tomorrow (Thurs 4/11).
Oh... could you help us out? No need to quote our questions when answering. Just include 1-2 ref words in your own sentence. Thanks!
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 11, 2024 11:33:18 GMT -7
Hi Again!
SO - we figured out based on his first experience with a fentanyl patch two days before his surgery when we were going to try conservative treatment and what happened when this new patch kicked in that Toast just does not do well on this drug. All PT progress quickly declined, he was anxious and whining all day, and did not sleep for more than 30 minutes at a time. We ended up taking the patch off early, and by the evening 4/10, he was himself again.
However, sadly, our PT ended up calling out sick today, and our next appointment is on 4/15 to give her time to recover. We meet with the surgeon again on 4/16.
Our main worry still involves his peeing. On 4/9, the surgeon was only able to express the bladder himself, not with a sniff test. We were worried we were pressing too hard or that we had bruised his bladder, and the surgeon said that he did not think that was the case.
He developed a rash all around his penis/genitals, and we just feel so sad about it. The hard part about it is we are taking him out extremely often, sometimes every hour, to attempt to express his bladder. He barely if ever lets us actually express him.
Today 4/11, my spouse took him out, attempted to express, and while carrying him back inside, he peed all over himself and my spouse. We don't care too much (although I have not stopped doing laundry), but based on the constant dribbling, it seems he has absolutely no control whatsoever.
We are using green tea to clean up the smell/etc., have unscented wipes, and are trying to keep him as dry as possible to stop the rash from persisting.
We got a natural ointment and wound cleaner, and have some natural hot spot treatment here too. I'm hoping we can make sure he's not in pain, although he doesn't seem too bothered about it. We're just at a loss here as to how to help him, especially since when he first got home, he immediately took us with the sling to his pee pad and began peeing himself. He has not only lost interest in the pee pad, but it seems in controlling any of his bladder. I'm worried we've lost his bladder tone. I'm able to get him to poop with no issues whatsoever, but most of the time it is entirely assisted, or he goes wherever when it naturally happens.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2024 12:50:31 GMT -7
Alex, Oh, the surgeon did not get him to pee, he got him to release urine by expressing...that paints a very different picture for us.
you really need to verify if he really has bladder control and thus you may use the proper term of "peeing." Or has he lost bladder control and then leaking on you when lifted is "overflowing" due to reflexes allowing urine to escape.
Toast needs a barrier cream to prevent urine staying on his skin, just like babies need a barrier cream to prevent urine caused rashes. Can you obtain baby products with no zinc: Aquaphor Baby, Aquaphor regular Healing Ointment OR Bayer's A+D® Original Ointment?
What about asking for a urinalysis to proove if there is a bladder infection going on that could cause dribbling, a painful burning sensation. Sometimes a bladder does not show outward signs for us...the urinalysis gives proof one way or the other.
I can't remember, on discharge did the surgeon himself tell you if Toast had DPS?
Poop will always come out on it's own. So that is not proof he has bowel control. Control for poop, means the dog won't poop where he sleeps unless he is not taken out in time.
First try a peed pad every 2-3 hrs. IF nothing, then try to express for urine.
Did you get a hands on top of your hands type of expressing lesson? Or just observed someone doing it? A hands on is a MUST to know the amt of pressure to apply. Where the bladder goes as it get small. It can take a weeks worth of expressing to become proficient.
This not knowing for sure if he's got bladder control (can pee) or loss of bladder control (bladder overflows) is confusing for you and me.
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 12, 2024 4:58:12 GMT -7
[4/12/24 2:30pm Copenhagen] I'm fairly certain that at this point in time, we are just dealing with overflow. No control peeing whatsoever. We're not sure how to manage that - but a belly band is coming in today. He definitely does not have bowel control either, then. He has been pooping sometimes without knowing.
We've got a barrier cream - and I'll start using that over the other products now that I know this is better! Most of his rash cleared overnight, which is great, but a few trouble spots still to go.
Monday I am going to absolutely get a urinalysis done to ensure he is okay - especially if he will not allow us to express him, it can only get worse in that department as far as a potential underlying infection. James (spouse) got a hands on lesson with the surgeon, but clearly we are not doing it right. We can try to express, nothing comes out, and then seconds later as we carry him inside, he is piddling everywhere.
I think our PT said he has DPS, but I will confirm for sure when we are in next.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 12, 2024 7:02:45 GMT -7
Alexi only trust the word of the surgeon about DPS. General DVM vets and other veterinary persons often get DPS wrong! On discharge or the last time you saw the surgeon, whether he had DPS should be in the notes on file. The reason to know DPS is that is must first exist for nerves to further heal. Even a dog who had no DPS this neuro function can come back with time. Same as all nerve healing it takes time. With loss of bladder control, a dog must either be manually expressed or there must be use of a cath. Stagnant urine remaining in the bladder, can quickly become a breeding ground for bacteria. The urinalysis will prove if an anti-biotic is needed or not. If need be you and James bring Toast in to your local vet so that you can get a 2nd hands on your hands lesson. Expressing is a matter of practice. Make sure he has had a drink of water an hour or more before the expressing lesson. ** Do you feel the bladder each time you express? Do you keep pressing until the bladder feels almost flat, like your fingers are almost touching? If the bladder has slipped away, you'll need to find it again and keep expressing until it's completely empty. It often slips back by the pelvic area. When the bladder is completely full, you won't really feel it as it fills the whole abdominal cavity but as it empties and gets smaller, you should be able to feel it. Here's what the Dodgerslist page on expressing says about this: "The bladder varies in size, shape and position depending on how much urine it contains. As the bladder shrinks, your hands move inwards gently, with a consistent pressure. As the bladder gets smaller, cup your right-hand fingers to trap the slithery bladder. Use your pinky to find the bladder hiding back in the hip/thigh area. Slow, gentle, consistent pressing is not painful to the pup." ==> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/HARD to Express dogsDr Isaacs, DVM, Neuro (ACVIM) speaks to this and drugs that might help: dodgerslist.com/2020/09/02/tense-during-expressingAnother neuro surgeon Dodgerslist consults with explains expressing:
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 18, 2024 6:53:49 GMT -7
[Copenhagen Thurs 4/18 4am]
HELLO! It's been a few very busy days, so I thought I would come back with a quick update!
My sister-in-law arrived from the US on 4/13 with ✙Pepcid AC in hand. We gave him his first dose, and by the end of the day, we noticed a significant change in Toast. His gas and acid must have put him in so much pain, because he 1) immediately got control of his bladder that we are now able to take him to grass, he sniffs and pees! and 2) massive improvements with therapy and movement.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 20 lbs/ 9.1kg 5 y.o. Onsior (robenacoxib) as of 4/6: ?mg 1x/day for ? days pregabalin 25mgs ▼2?x/day (as of 4/17) ✙ Pepcid AC as of 4/13: ?mg ?x/day duration of Onsior]
It's been now five days - and we have slept three of those nights all the way through with no wet bedding and no whining dog.
Every single day he seems to be more himself.
He met with the surgeon on Tuesday 4/16, who gave the thumbs up to start tapering meds. We started yesterday [4/17] by taking one of the ▼pregabalins off [mgs? or times per day?], and he has had no issue thus far without it. We were at the PT on Monday, yesterday, and again tomorrow for the week.
On Monday 4/15, they noticed he tried to move his left leg on the water treadmill by himself.
Wednesday, 4/17, the PT noticed a bit of clicking in his back legs, and has a small concern that something is not right, some potential rubbing against bone - but I didn't get full details on that as my spouse took him to that appointment. I go tomorrow, and hopefully can get more information.
All to say, we are extremely optimistic and hopeful today. I'm making a figure-8-sling today using the diagram on the site - I can't thank you all enough for the support, of which I'll keep updating!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 18, 2024 9:30:00 GMT -7
What a wonderful update you've given today, Alexis! Such good news of the signs of nerve healing that you've seen - return of bladder control and improvements in leg movement. Excellent to see this so soon following surgery. Glad to hear that the Pepcid AC has helped with his gas pain. What dosage are you giving and how many times a day? Please continue to give the Pepcid AC for as long as Toast is on any dosage of Onsior. I well remember my Jeremy's legs also making a clicking sound as he began to move them again. It was not problematic at all and eventually stopped when he regained movement. I do hope that this will be the same for Toast. Please let us know what the vet thinks. Here's a link to Dr. Isaac's response to this question that you might like to discuss with your vet: dodgerslist.com/2020/08/20/spine-popping-sound/%E2%80%8B?highlight=poppingKeep up the good work with Toast and please do continue to keep us updated. Healing prayers for Toast.
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 22, 2024 0:10:47 GMT -7
Hi!
We are giving 10mg of Pepcid AC every twelve hours - he's approximately 9.5kg, so based on math it's a tiny bit more than he should have, but we've been doing okay with it thus far.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 20 lbs/ 9.1kg 5 y.o. Onsior (robenacoxib) as of 4/6: ? mg 1x/day for ? days pregabalin 25mgs ▼1x/day Pepcid AC as of 4/13: 10mg 2x/day duration of Onsior]
Today we start another round of PT and have now moved down to only ▼Onsior at 7AM, and one ▼Pregabalin at 7PM. It's the first day of this much tapering, as we moved down last week and that went great. We'll see how it goes based on how tough PT is.
I am nervous as the PT mentioned that his progress is pretty slow, which they said is fairly typical for his breed (they call him lazy, which isn't totally wrong for a pug, but he did just have spinal surgery); and we've been doing laser and water treadmill therapies, but they want to do some shock therapy today? I'm not sure what that is, but haven't found much on it, and I don't know if it's the shock acupuncture or not.
The PT mentioned that the clicking is coming from his knees - so hopefully that's not bad?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 22, 2024 8:18:14 GMT -7
Alexi, what is Toast's progress so far with underwater treadmill? What did they observe as his most current leg use ability? We'd like to know what your 4/18 report "2) massive improvements with therapy and movement" translates to in actual eyeball observations.
Let us know what this shock therapy is actually called.
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Post by Alexi & Toast on Apr 22, 2024 8:27:05 GMT -7
Hi!
So today, they actually filled the underwater treadmill area, put a lifevest on him, and checked for actual movements of his back legs while supporting him in the tub (swimming) - he was moving them extremely slowly, but was kicking his back legs on his own. They did not do shock therapy.
I'm not certain what it is called still - but it is supposed to stimulate the muscles?
For us on 4/13, massive improvements with therapy and movement meant he can stand without our support for a good period of time and can make himself get into a proper sit.
Now on 4/22, he can't yet fully stand back up on his own, but he is very close as of today. We've been working on getting back up into stand all weekend. He actually attempts to squat while peeing as well; though he warns us about his bowel movements and does, for the most part, hold it, there is still some control issue there and he wants to walk it out instead of squat and push.
So far, he hasn't shown that he is in pain with tapering!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 22, 2024 18:30:39 GMT -7
Alexi, that underwater treadmill will help him alot being able to move on his own with the aid of water bouyancy!
Thank you for your description of his neuro functions... he IS making good progress in the typical order of nerve healing: 1. yes_Deep Pain Sensation (DPS) 2. ?_Tail wagging with joy at specifically hearing happy talk, seeing you or getting food. 3. 4/18_Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. 4/15 Left rear weak leg movement w/treadmill 4/22 kicking both rear legs in treadmill ? ability to move up into a stand position on his own, and then _?_ wobbly walking. 5. _Being able to walk with more steadiness and _ properly place the paw without it knuckling under.
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Post by Alexi & Toast on May 3, 2024 9:17:35 GMT -7
Hi Friends! Okay - our update! As of yesterday, he is just on the Onsior in the morning (and of course, Pepcid still once every twelve hours because of the Onsior). And based on the chart, here is where we are at: 1. yes_Deep Pain Sensation (DPS) 2. YES Tail wagging with joy at specifically hearing happy talk, seeing you or getting food. 3. 4/18_Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. 4/15 Left rear weak leg movement w/treadmill 4/22 kicking both rear legs in treadmill kind-of? yes! ability to move up into a stand position on his own, BABY STEPS! wobbly walking.5. _ Being able to walk with more steadiness and _ properly place the paw without it knuckling under. He is taking a few steps at a time here and there and they are not controlled in any way and do happen haphazardly - he favors one side over the other for sure, and sometimes doesn't like to put a ton of weight on those back legs. He is always always wagging his tail when he is happy and that, as it was before this surgery, is very very often. We have a lot of hope for our boy, but ultimately, are just happy to have his personality back.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 3, 2024 13:10:21 GMT -7
Wonderful news about Toast!
My dog had underwater treadmill therapy after his surgery. I don't think he would have recovered nearly as quickly without it.
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