Jane & Winston
New Member
MALE- Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
Posts: 3
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Post by Jane & Winston on Mar 31, 2024 9:59:28 GMT -7
Six Year-old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Diagnosed with (IVDD) after 2 pain episodes on 3/22/24 No weakness in legs or wobbly walks. Can stand and sit. Meds: Carprofen (finished 3/29), Gabapentin 100 mg 2x daily.
Started conservative bed rest 3/23/24, but started stricter rest 3/28/24.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 25 lbs age? carprofen as of date: for 7 days, 3/29 TEST stop for pain/ neuro gabapentin use as sedativel 50 mgs 4x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 31, 2024 21:24:55 GMT -7
Hi Jane (?), we are glad you registered and have joined us all on this public Forum! We have lots of tips to share with you in caring for an IVDD dog which can make the rest period go smoother. Please tell us about your dog and specifically answer the questions below, too, so we know best how to help. ★1 How much does your dog weigh? Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg’s and times per day given? Date Carprofen started? For how many day to be given? Confused…please explain…Now that carprofen has stopped, why is the pain med gabapentin still being used? This page explains anti-inflammatory drugs, such as carprofen are used during a disc episode. And also why pain meds are stopped when the inflammatory is stopped: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/healing-swelling-inflammation/★3 Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? -- Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist surgeon (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? ★4 you have been doing stricter rest as described below? The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the crate rest part. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. That 6 weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/ STRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no dragging or meandering at potty times. POTTY TIMES Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Potty-leash-harness400-19kb.jpg★5 Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can't find a comfortable position. Arched back. Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not in control your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds. ★6 Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood?
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Jane & Winston
New Member
MALE- Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
Posts: 3
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Post by Jane & Winston on Apr 1, 2024 9:47:38 GMT -7
1. Winstons weighs 25 lbs. Carprofen was only approved by general vet for 7 days; she did not want to extend. Gabapentin is 100 mg 2x daily. I give him 50mg each at: 6AM, 11AM, 3PM, 8PM. I asked for refill/extension of Gabapentin for a week, for sedative effects. Winston is a lively dog, and we will never make it through 8 weeks total crate rest without sedatives. I have asked the general vet for Trazadone instead., but have not received.
3. Yes, general vet said it was IVDD; she did xrays and saw narrowing at 2 locations. I know this must be validated by specialists. I have an appt with neurologist consultation scheduled. No MRI as yet. Appt with general vet at end of 2 weeks. Note: I don’t think my general vet has a deep knowledge of IVDD. She seemed to think 2 weeks rest was enough. This is Winston’s second episode; I know from my research 2 weeks isn’t enough.
4.Yes, I have 2 crates with ortho mattresses set up for Winston on the living room floor and the bedroom floor. No bed, no stairs, no ramps. No chiro, No PT/rehab as of yet. I know now (but didn’t know until a few days ago): no couch, no laps, no grooming.
I have a sling/harnass for him and a lead; the sling wraps around his body, bottom of neck down his back. For potty, I try to carry him out, set him down, and restrict walking as much as possible. This is very hard; Winston does not “go” on command, especially not poop. I am 70 years old, have arthritis, no family or friends, so no help of any kind. When I feel insecure about carrying him, afraid I might drop him, I use harnass to gently lift him and guide his steps slowly as much as I possibly can. I have a cart, but if Winston is feeling frisky, he will jump out of it, and jumping is the worst thing.
5. No more yelping upon movement or lifting or touching.; his major symptom was yelping on movement or neing carried. No arched back, no “flamingo” legs, no dragging of legs or feet, no floppy or weak legs. No shivering or trembling. He can sit, stand (he only stands momentarily), turn around, and re-position himself inside his crates.
6. Eating and drinking okay. Pee okay, about 4 times daily. He’s constipated; he only goes about once every 2-3 days. Poop is brown, no red or blood, firm.
General vet said I could give him psyllium husk, powdered. I give him 1 teaspoon, mixed with 1 teaspoon of unsweetened canned pumpkin and water 1x daily, as a treat.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 1, 2024 11:20:45 GMT -7
Jane, most often IVDD is diagnosed and prooved with being a breed prone to his disease, the way the dog acts at the neuro exam. AND if the Rx treatment provides improvement. 1. STOP THE NERVE PAIN MED GABAPENTIN!the stop of carprofen is to assess if it has worked. With gabapentin still on board masking nerve pain neither you nor the vet knows if another course of carprofen is needed or all swelling is now gone. 2. DEAL with crate anxiety.Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives (ACE, alprazolam or traZODone). Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is: --DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Use diffusor with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbac2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. VetriScience Laboratories Composure, Calming Support for Dogs- 120 Bite Sized Chews one source on AMAZON
3. The single, most important part of the care is being inside of the recovery suite at your house. Vet neuro or local vet transports are only for the most dire need of an emergency. You do not have any emergency going on now nor coming up in two weeks nor for a neuro consult much less an MRI need. 4. Upgrade your potty time safety routineProtect your own back to not lift him unless absolutely necessary. -- Use an ex-pen if you have one to form a small area for potty time at front door of his crate in your home. -- You will be inside the ex-pen enclosure at potty time. -- Open the crate door. If no ex-pen then you get harness and sling on him and let him learn to pee in the house! -- Winston takes a few footsteps out to a pee pad you have pre-treated with a piece of urine soaked paper towel to encourage him to sniff and pee there. -- Use a sling for his back legs if he is wobbly. His healing disc can't afford his butt tipping or falling over. -- When potty time is over, Winston takes a few footsteps back into his crate. Consider tossing a small treat to the back of the crate to encourage him to go in. --Fold up the ex-pen panels (if using) til next potty time. Clean up the urine soaked pee pad. Refrigerate a small piece in a zip lock bag for next potty time.
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Jane & Winston
New Member
MALE- Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
Posts: 3
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Post by Jane & Winston on Apr 1, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -7
Thank you SO much for all the great suggestions and input! Winston and i very much appreciate it.
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