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Post by CynthiaLS on Nov 20, 2023 15:31:05 GMT -7
[Original subject line:6.5 year old newly diagnosed with IVDD-- med mishap? ]
Our terrier/chihuahua/dachshund mix presented with pain (shaking, not eating, yelping from some movements, not taking the stairs, refusing to jump on the bed) on Nov 4th-6th. No other health issues. 6.5 years. 9 pounds.
We took her to the ER vet on the 6th and they diagnosed her with IVDD based on tenderness/pain associated with the lower spine, right by the tail. The prescribed 3 weeks crate rest, Gabapentin (.8mL every 8-12 hours) and Metacam (1.5 mg/mL; .25ml once per day).
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 9 pounds 6.5yo Nov 4 pain only symptoms metacam 1.5 mg/mL as of 11/6: 0.25mL 1x/day ?x/day for 20+ tba days, then a STOP test for: _pain / _neuro gabapentin formula ?mg/mL: ?mg (0.8mL dose) 2x./day Your girl needs GI tract protection: Pepcid AC + ASAP Sucralfate, on board for duration of Metacam! ]
She seems to improve day by day—no yelps of pain, no shaking and adjusted to her crating and limited movements well. Ate and drank normally. She can pee and poop well and never lost the ability to walk and doesn’t appear to have any neurological damage.
Went to our regular (but new to us) vet on the [Nov] 16th who recommended tapering the meds down and adding more exercise (including stairs!) to prevent muscle loss, but we want to stick to the crate rest. We figure she should never do stairs again, nor jump on furniture—correct?
On the [nov]18th and 19th, she seemed bothered—in pain? Eventually wouldn’t eat and appeared to have a stomachache.
Today, the 20th, she vomited A LOT of blood. Slightly mucousy, but no food/chunks and solid red. We took her to the ER again and they recommended stopping the Metacam. They have instead given her some liquid to sooth her tummy for 5 days (Sucralfate ¼ gram every 9 hours), want us to continue the Gabapentin (we already reduced to 2X/day last week), and offered Codeine (7.5 mg/12 hours).
She seemed like she was on the mend, and not in pain, and we were going to reduce her meds, but now we have this new wrinkle. After this experience, and reading this site, I am SO MAD that they didn’t suggest something for her stomach. And I am even more hesitant to use medicine.
What would you recommend? Does healing the tummy with Sucralfate sound reasonable? Any supplements or other strategies that are gentler on the system?
Is it still okay to taper her meds? I am wondering if we can NOT start the codeine. Are we at a loss without the anti-inflammatory? Is the idea to stick with crate rest for the next two weeks, and gradually reduce pain meds, only using them as she presents with pain (which is a bit hard to precisely know)?
I just saw this in another post. So with the absence of the anti-inflammatory, we might expect to see an increase in pain. And the codeine sounds like a no go (why, oh why, did the prescribe it then?!); so then should we already now return the Gabapentin to 3x a day, or just wait and see how things are going?
"Codeine is not a recommended analgesic for dogs or cats. It is generally only available in combination with acetaminophen (Tylenol) which makes it completely unsuited to feline use. Its use in dogs is discouraged as most dogs lack the CYP2D6 enzyme primarily responsible for the conversion of codeine to morphine, its most active metabolite. That being said, there may be some analgesic value to codeine in dogs via the C6G metabolite."
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 20, 2023 20:33:21 GMT -7
So very sorry to hear of this very bad situation having developed for your girl. What is her name? Not all vets know IVDD, more on what you can do about that later. #1 A 14-day course of metacam is not out of the ordinary. Not protecting the stomach at the get go with Pepcid AC is not smart (bleeding ulcers result). #2 You should stop Metacam. Give the sulcralfate time to heal the stomach lining. #3 Observe if all the painful swelling is gone by stopping gabapentin and Codeine too. #4 IF, if you would observe pain, indicating an anti-inflammatory needs more time than 20 days, then you decide with vet: --- go back on Metacam WITH double stomach protection: Pepcid AC + sucralfate OR --- without Metacam one would need to appreciate there is nothing on board to work on swelling. So it would be expected that pain medications would have to increase to control pain. All pain meds last for about 8 hrs. Rx should be for 3x/day: gabapentin (nerve pain) and traMADol (over all analgesic) and methocarbamol (muscle contraction pain). Fingers crossed on the stop of Metacam and gabapentin and codeine, no signs of pain will surface. Then all that remains is the SINGLE most important care of 100% STRICT rest for the balance of the 8 weeks. Graduation day will be Jan 1, 2024. NOT ALL VETS KNOW IVDD This is the reason to continue doing the reading you have started with (kudos to you for your quick delving into reading!) Recommend in the next days, bone up on IVDD on our main www.dodgerslist.com website. This way you have the ability to "vet" your vet, know when to ask questions, better understand if a treatment is compatible with IVDD or not. For the now, these articles are valuable in upping your IVDD knowledge and at home care. 🚩Shortcut Thru IVDD: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/ 🚩Here are lots of tips and ideas to make the next weeks of disc healing rest go smoother: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/🚩ROADMAP. Avoid dangerous detours with the Conservative Roadmap tapped on your fridge. Conservative treatment is not rocket science. With this handy reference on your fridge you will be able to answer just about every question you have--- a great confidence builder! VIEW, DOWNLOAD and print: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf STRICT REST MEANS: ◼︎No laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎No chiro therapy whys: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/◼︎Carry to and from the potty place. No dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎No PT, no going on walks for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎ Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. Vets who know IVDD, understand that med adjustments can be made over the phone as well as updates. Register when you can, so that we can best follow your girl and you can get email alerts whenever someone has posted to you! 👀▼Registering info if you need it 👀▼
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Post by CynthiaLS2 on Nov 21, 2023 12:17:41 GMT -7
Dear Paula-- Thank you so much for your reply and the great work you do at Dodgerslist. Your advice on how to best care for sweet Piper is much appreciated and puts my mind at ease. We have stopped the Metacam and are focusing on healing her tummy with Sucralfate, and using Gapapentin for pain. We will watch her to detect increased pain, and if that happens, speak with our vet using the information that you've provided. I really appreciate the additional references you suggested!
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 9 pounds 6.5yo Nov 4 pain only symptoms metacam 1.5 mg/mL as of 11/6: 0.25mL 1x/day ?x/day for 20 days, then 11/20 STOP test for: _pain / _neuro gabapentin formula ?mg/mL: ?mg (0.8mL dose) 2x./day Pepcid AC is a must for the duration when any anti-inflammatory such as metacam is on board. ]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 21, 2023 13:34:58 GMT -7
The purpose of the SToP of Metacam is to verify all pain is really gone. Why is pain med gabapentin, then still on board? It blindfolds you to the truth about pain. IF with the stop of gabapentin, pain would surface, THEN at THAT TIME you would know a pain med was needed promptly back on board. Read back over my #4 points. No one wants a dog taking pain meds or any other meds when there is no job for them to do. All meds have side effects. When meds are actually needed, they work wonders and well worth the taking a risk of side effects. Fingers crossed on the stop of Metacam and gabapentin and codeine, no signs of pain will surface. Please register when you can, so that we can best follow your girl and you can get email alerts whenever someone has posted to you! 👀▼Registering info if you need it 👀▼
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