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Post by Cheri & Gypsy on Aug 24, 2023 9:04:54 GMT -7
[Original subject line: IVDD symptoms started 8/21/2023 Surgery not a option ]
possible. QUESTIONS ☆ 1 currently pain? Yes X reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow, ginger movements
X shivering, trembling X yelping when picked up or moved
X head held high or nose to the ground
X Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
X Not their normal perky selves? 2 16LBs Age? 3 1/2 Prednisone 5mg 3 times a day, Gabapentin 100mg every 8 hours, Cefpodoximr 100mg one a day for UTI B.. 🔘 If on a steroid….what was the start date & dose? 8/21/2023 Date of steroid taper? 8/25/2023
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 3.5 y.o.
prednisone as of 8/21: 5mgs 3x/day for 5 days, Sat 8/26 test taper for: _pain / _neuro
gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day
cefpodoximr 100mgs 1x/day - for UTI
Gypsy needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of prednisone! ] C.. PEPCID AC: Phrase a simple question that you expect a simple "yes "or "no" to it. Does my dog have any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). No problems
(NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html ) ------
thumb.ibb.co/mEGRuy/91x_Aj_s00z_L_SY355.jpg☆ 3 -- List any red flag signs of stomach damage. Not eating, vomit, loose stool, bleeding ulcers, red or black blood in diarrhea. She isn’t eating ☆ 4 Gypsy she is a chihuahua poodle mix ☆ 5 Was the diagnosis IVDD-- general DVM? Yes ☆ 6 What was the date you saw the vet for CONSERVATIVE treatment? 8/21/2023 Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
STRICT means:
- no laps - no couches
- no baths - no sleeping with you
- no dragging or meandering at potty times.
- no PT - no chiro therapy
Why Chiropractic is not recommended for pain for an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/☆ 7 No she has no control and is wearing a diaper find wet bedding, leaks on you when lifted? yes Overflowing bladders need to be expressed to avoid UTIs.
Review video. Then get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson at the vet. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 24, 2023 11:54:33 GMT -7
Welcome! I'm Paula what's your name? If we read correctly the info you supplied, it tells me there are emergency things that needs attention today, ASAP: getting pain meds adjusted, getting either a review or a first time lesson in expressing the bladder. #1 PAIN Marking so many signs of current pain with an "X" indicates the pain meds are not yet correct for Gypsy. Know that any pain at all means, the meds need adjusting today. The vet needs your feedback in order to know adjustments to meds are needed ASAP 8/24 . Most often it takes use 3 different meds to address the 3 different sources of pain. Advocate for the two meds highlighted below to help get the pain in control night and day, round the clock. Any sign of pain deters the healing process! √ Gabapentin for nerve pain 3x/day __ methocarbamol for muscle contraction pain 3x/day-- VERY typical to a neck disc: head held high or low, holds leg up (too painful to stand on) __ traMADol as the general analgesic 3x/day NEURO STATUS? which legs front left or right OR rear left or right, is held up off the ground like a flamingo bird? These are the EXTRA thing you should be doing to help with a NECK DISC: ==> www.dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/
BLADDER
Are you expressing her bladder, how often? While on pred and learning this new skill, expect to express every 2-3 hours. When she stays dry move up to every 4-6, then every 8 hrs. If you are not expressing her bladder or have not been shown how to do it, you need to take her in TODAY to get that hands on top of your hands type of lesson. Read over and watch the video BEFORE so you get the most out of the lesson: ==> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/ NOTE: There is also info on how to express for POOP in above link. Poop is not the serious health issue that bladder expressing is. Poop expressing so Gypsy does not have to feel anxiety about finding poop where she sleeps. Diapers should only be as last resort while learning to express to keep her dry and the bladder health. Overflowing urine is bad, it can ruin the tone of the bladder so it won't work properly when the nerve connect to the brain returns. Diapers can cause same issues as with babies, urine scald or rash on skin.   ** PREDNISONE and stomach protection Check your bottle of prednisone! Very typically, this med is dosed every 12 hours (2x/day) not 3x/day) How often are you actually dosing 5mgs of pred? Let us know when you have the acid suppress PEPCID AC on board.STOMACH damage is showing with your report of not eating. DO not delay get Pepcid AC (famtodine) 5mgs every 12 hours on board asap today. Progressing of acid damage: ⚠️Not eating > vomit > loose stool > bleeding ulcers > ed or black blood in diarrhea > perforated stomach lining Read and understand why Pepcid AC: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/KNOWLEDGE is KEY to provide Gypsy with a good healing environmentGypsy can self heal as long as you are able to stick to the principals of STRICT rest until graduation day on Oct 16. These pages below are for you to read and bone up on how to give the best of care for Gypsy to make sure she has every potential to get back to enjoying family life and living many happy years ahead: 1. Tips and ideas for setting up recovery suite, keeping dog and your self calm and much, much more: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/ 2. Learning about the disease your dog was born with. The more you know the better job you can do in protecting her and speaking up for her: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/ 3. Conservative Roadmap to tape to your fridge, will be very handing in making sure you don't make any dangerous detours from the kind of care gypsy is depending on you to provide: DOWNLOAD and print a copy dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf
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Post by Cheri & Gypsy on Sept 7, 2023 17:47:17 GMT -7
Thank you for all this info. I didn’t respond sooner because our Vet thought she could possibly be paralyzed from a tick bite I want sure what to think. Now that it’s been almost 3 weeks he doesn’t think so any more.
Since [8/24] I first answered the questions
things have changed some. [date?] she is not using her front legs either. She can move them but she [Pain!!] won’t put weight on them or stand on them at all. She also [neuro diminishement] does not turn her foot back to normal if the foot is tucked in. Her pain is better and she is eating and drinking well. She [PAIN!!] won’t lift her head at all either but she will turn her head. She does] have 2 genes for IVDD according to her dna. Does this happen? No use of the front legs either? I don’t know what to do.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 3.5 y.o.
8/21 back legs paralyzed
8/23 root signature pain front legs, knuckling front paws.
prednisone as of 8/21: 5mgs 3x/day for 5 days, Sat 8/26 test taper for: 8/23? pain / 8/23? neuro
as of 8/30: 7.5mg 2x/day for 7 days, 9/6 TEST TAPER: __pain/ __neuro:
gabapentin 100mgs▼2x/day as of 9/6!?
Gypsy needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of prednisone! ]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2023 18:00:31 GMT -7
What's your name? Mine is Paula.
Prednisone tape4red on 8/26. Please help us by always using dates so we can better follow along. The increased pain and neuro diminishment of knuckling paws is a CLEAN sign to no longer continue the pred taper. Instead pred should have been another course. Maybe a 7- or 14-day course to work on fully resolving the inflammation. Have you reported these observations to the vet. What did he do to change the meds. Pred ?mg ?x/day for how many days? Did he add to to the pain med (tramadal and methocarbamol)?
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Post by Cheri & Gypsy on Sept 7, 2023 18:04:26 GMT -7
She woke up on Aug 21st with her back,legs being paralyzed.
I believe it was mid week of the [8/23??] 21st that she stopped using her front legs.
She is on Prenisone 5mg 2 x a day and
▼Gabapentin 100mg 2x a day.
[Date of extention of pred? for how many days was the extention?]
My name is Cheri thank you
He prescribes [whole tab is ?mgs ?] 1 1/2 pills of the prenisone at the same dose 2 times a day for 7 days. So aug 30th to Sept 6th . She has not been given any other pain meds.
As far as the extension of prednisone he has not mentioned taking her off of it. She will have a ppt early next week to check in
Yes we did report the changes to the vet.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2023 18:16:52 GMT -7
Cheri, it is taking me time to digest what you have written and put it in sequence. I'm concerned about the pain you report and yet vet did not adjust her pain meds. Not a good situation at all. Not fair to Gypsy. Why did he not adjust pain meds with her not wanting to bear weight?
Had you been doing STRICT crate rest? Limited movement? At potty very, minimal footsteps? These observations you report took place before pred was to be tapered on 8/26 to see if all pain was gone and that there were no new neuro diminishments.
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Post by Cheri & Gypsy on Sept 7, 2023 18:19:28 GMT -7
Yes very limited movement. No walking of any kind. Yes this happened before the prednisone was tapered. We do bring her outside for fresh air, she is pretty depressed and it seems to help her to get. But she is laying down not moving around.
What is the best position for her to lay?
She was on Gabapentin every 8 hours 8/21 to to maybe 9/05. I am sorry I am not making it easy to understand. I am exhausted and stressed
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2023 18:30:13 GMT -7
still reading and trying to get a sense of the sequence of events. A dog can lie down the way it feels most comfortable for them. Are you doing these extra things for a neck disc: ==> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/Why did gabapentin go from 3X/day down to 2x/day? Pain meds last for 8 hrs. that is why to dose every 8 hrs (3x/day)? |
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Post by Cheri & Gypsy on Sept 7, 2023 18:33:30 GMT -7
He thought the Gabapentin wasn’t helping too much and I actually thought she wasn’t in as much pain as she had been. That is why he switched it to 2 times a day.
I am going to return to every 8 hours for the Gabapentin and call her vet tomorrow to see about getting her some other pain meds.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2023 18:44:59 GMT -7
Cheri for tonight can you resume Gabapentin back to PROMPTLY every 8 hrs? And 1st thing report the not wanting to bear weight pain. In or that the right combo of pain meds can be on board:
traMADol as the over all analgesic 3x/day
methocarbamol for the VERY typical to neck disc pain of muscle contractions PROMPTLY every 8 hrs.
Vets who know their IVDD do not ask for dog to make trip in to office. Trip are potential of too much movement of the early healing disc. Things like med adjustment can be made over the phone.
Help me with the sequence . Fill in what needs correction for the sequence of events.
8/21 back legs paralyzed
8/23 root signature pain front legs, knuckling front paws.
prednisone as of 8/21: 5mgs 3x/day for 5 days, Sat 8/26 test taper for: 8/23 pain / 8/23 neuro
as of 8/30: 7.5mg 2x/day for 7 days, 9/6 TEST TAPER: __pain/ __neuro:
gabapentin 100mgs▼2x/day as of 9/6!?
cefpodoximr 100mgs 1x/day - for UTI
Gypsy needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of prednisone!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2023 18:56:44 GMT -7
Did you get a hands on your hands type of bladder expressing lesson from your vet? How are you doing with expresssing? Does she stay dry when you express every 2-3 hrs. The more skill you aquire, then you can move to every 3-4 hrs, then 4-6 and even 8 hr over night and she'll stay dry.
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Post by Cheri & Gypsy on Sept 7, 2023 18:58:15 GMT -7
Yes you have the sequence right. She is no longer on any antibiotics. For potty time I use a potty pad indoors. My husband supports her under her front legs and I hold her under her back legs where the vet showed me and she pees right away. I a, expressing her bowl move,ents also. She has no bladder control she will pee when I lift and move her sometimes. I have been putting a diaper on her just to be safe.
It is harder for me to express her pee when my husband is at work since she can’t put weight on her front legs.
I will add Pepcid ac what dose should I use?
Dose not does. Also we love very close the vet. He did some acupuncture with the electronic current machine hooked up to it.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2023 19:17:10 GMT -7
Cheri it is the procedure of traveling to the vet that's the potential for too much movement of the back and neck. Protect her disc. If you want therapies see about hiring a home visiting vet to come to your house. BLADDER CONTROLYou have not been not expressing the bladder. It kinds sound as if she may still have bladder control. HOWEVER, she got a uti. Give us proof she has bladder control. First put some old urine on the pee pad. Set her down on the pee pad. Make sure your hands are not on her tummy area!. See if she sniffs the urine. Watch, does she then release urine that = bladder control. Otherwise a dog who does not have bladder control leaks when lifted, and often you find urine in bedding. Overflowing happens when the bladder is full. It kicks in the reflexes to release urine. Not all urine gets out. The remaning quickly becomes a breeding ground for bacteria (UTI). Make sure you've read about predinisone and understand how it is used with a disc episode. www.dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/ Also make sure you are aware how Pepcid AC helps when there is nerve damage, change in routine and Prednisone on board. Also you will see how much to dose: www.dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection Let us know the date Pepcid AC is on board, the dose and that you give it 2x/day. |
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