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Post by Katie and Rocky on Jul 24, 2023 23:21:26 GMT -7
Hi!
My dog Rocky was first presumptively diagnosed with IVDD about four years ago in 2019 (he was five years old at the time). He was clearly in pain and they believed there was a damaged disc in his neck. We went the crate and meds route and he seemed to heal fairly quickly. He's had a a couple episodes which I think were flair-ups since. They were both similar to the first--pain, not being able to get comfortable, holding neck down, etc. Each time he received meds, did crate rest, and got better.
A couple weeks ago (7/9), he was around another dog who excitedly jumped on him. Right after this, he started slipping on the hardwood floors a bit and walking wobbly. I was super scared and made sure he rested the remainder of the day. The next morning he seemed to be pretty much normal. We continued to go for daily walks and he seemed OK. The only thing I noticed was his nails scraping the pavement a bit differently at times. There were also a couple times that week when he saw a visitor, got excited, and had wobbly legs or some knuckling (this was the first time I saw him do something like this).
We went to vet on 7/18. He stood on table and they tested his reflexes when bending his paws back. He fixed each one almost immediately. They said the right thing to do was keep him resting and we could try physical therapy and/or take him to a neurologist. They also offered to do an x-ray there, but told me it's not really the best way to diagnose the issue.
Since he doesn't seem to be in much pain this time, they didn't give us the medley of meds but instead just gave us Rimadyl. I've been giving him 1/2 a 25mg pill a day and I'm not sure it's doing much of anything.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
14 lbs 9 y.o.
7/9 new neuro dimishment: rear delayed paw placement knuckling, wobbly, tail low
Rimadyl as of 7/18: 12.5mgs 1x/day for 5 days, Sun 7/23 a test STOP for: √7/25 pain / _neuro
Note: Rimadyl was Rx'd for 2x/day. Vet tech rx'd!!! & Owner self prescribed 1x/day
no stomach protection was Rx'd for duration of Rimadyl! ]
It seems like every time I place him in the pen or outside for a bathroom break something happens that's a bit off with his legs. Also, while turning around in the pen, his legs sometimes knuckle or just seem to land in an odd position. If he takes a few steps after going to the bathroom, he seems to be walking fine. Is it best to keep him on strict rest? Would introducing physical therapy potentially help his current state? Or should I wait to see if the wobbly legs get a bit better first?
Sorry for the essay. This resource has been so very helpful and appreciated.
Thank you!!
☆ 1 currently: X Not their normal perky selves?
Rocky doesn't seem to be in too much pain. He just seems a little less like his usual feisty self.
☆ 2 14 lbs, 9 years old
He received a 5-day prescription of 25mg Rimadyl and told to take 1/2 every 12 hours. The tech said I could also just use as needed. Since he has only shown wobbly, knuckling symptoms and not so much pain, I have been giving him 1/2 pill a day. This may have been a misstep on my part.
☆ 3 -- List any red flag signs of stomach damage. None
☆ 4 What breed? Your dog’s name? Your name?
Rocky is a chihuahua dachshund mix.
☆ 5 Yes, it's presumptive IVDD. He has had a couple prior flair-ups that seemed to be very painful. He couldn't find a comfortable position or move his neck up. These were managed with meds and crate rest and he recovered fairly quickly.
-- DVM? Yes
-- Looking into neurologists in the area
☆ 6 What was the date you saw the vet for CONSERVATIVE treatment? 7/18
Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
STRICT means:
- no laps - no couches
- no baths - no sleeping with you
- no walking/meandering at potty times.
- no PT - no chiro therapy
Why Chiropractic is not recommended for pain for an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/
☆ 7 sniff and squat? Yes
DOGs with BLADDER Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps.
Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over.
A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot.
An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!
☆ 8 When I place Rocky in his play pen or to use the bathroom, he is a bit wobbly and weak in at least one leg. When walking more than a few steps (which we have stopped doing), he seems pretty much normal except for scuffing of the nails at times. His tail has been pretty low. He still gets excited to eat though.
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Post by Karen & Maddie on Jul 25, 2023 2:24:56 GMT -7
First, I’m so sorry you are going through this and I hope Rocky has a speedy and full recovery soon. To answer just a few of your questions from a “been there, done that, read all the books” perspective (I’m not a mod, just a fellow dachshund owner), my advice is this:
—Keep him on *strict* bed rest until you can reset a veterinary neurologist/neurosurgeon or a veterinary orthopaedic surgeon. You can search Dodgerslust for recommendations, but for some areas, those lists aren’t always totally up-to-date. Ask your vet for recommendations. Also if there is a veterinary medicine school near you, you can also call them, as they are often a good source for specialty clinics (and sometimes cheaper in terms of surgical costs since they are teaching hospitals - but they still provide excellent care!)
—standard for conservative care is at LEAST 6-8 weeks of *strict* crate rest (no laps, no couches, no beds, limited movement), even if you start seeing improvement in walking (because you don’t want to re-injure the disc before it is fully healed. Generally, you do NOT want to start physical therapy during this time because the movement can exacerbate the injury and swelling. I would NOT start PT until you talk yo the specialist at a minimum. One thing you CAN do at this point, which is often quite helpful at reducing inflammation, is acupuncture- especially if you can get the acupuncturist to come to your house (many will!). Some vets also recommend laser light therapy (though others say to wait on this).
It can feel frustrating to be doing a lot if “nothing”, but it’s a really important few weeks of “nothing,” so don’t underestimate the value of that hard work that is otherwise undervalued.
If it is hard to keep your pup calm during crate rest, you can ask for a sedative to keep him calm, but one of our doggos became very agitated in a oen, so we *had* to sedate her for a bit to keep her from exacerbating her injuries. Poor beastie. She did eventually calm down though.
I hope this helps, and I hope Rocky is on the mend soon!
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 25, 2023 7:01:38 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Katie. You have a pain emergency that must be dealt with ASAP today. Please contact the vet this morning to advise of the pain that you're seeing. Not much pain is too much pain. There should be no pain from one dose of pain meds to the next. Pain hinders healing so have no patience with it. It also means there is still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine and the original dosage of the anti-inflammatory is necessary for a bit longer. Advocate strongly for at least another week or two of Rimadyl at the original dosage prescribed (12.5 mg 2x/day). Rimadyl should never be given as needed. It must be given consistently until the swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine resolves. Advocate strongly for the addition of pain meds. Until all swelling is gone, there will be pain and there is no reason for Rocky to be in pain. Often with an IVDD episode, it takes three pain meds to control the pain: Tramadol as a general pain med, Gabapentin for nerve pain and Methocarbamol for the pain of muscle spasms that often accompany a disc episode. Pain should be completely under control within one hour of starting meds and should remain completely under control from one dose to the next. Advocate strongly for the addition of Pepcid AC. A stomach protector should be given any time an anti-inflammatory is given. See the warnings of stomach distress and the dosage in your post above. If your current vet can be convinced to get the correct meds on board, then there would be no need to see a neurologist unless Rocky's condition should worsen. At this point, Rocky's neuro damage is mild. Getting the correct meds on board and implementing strict crate rest for 8 weeks can heal the damaged disc. If the current vet cannot or will not get the correct meds on board, then you would need to see a neurologist or a vet knowledgeable about IVDD immediately this morning to get the correct meds on board. This cannot wait. Take a look at this page if you need to find another vet today: Fixed broken link: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/emergency-find-a-specialist/You have been given a dangerous recommendation of trying physical therapy. Too much movement of the spine and the damaged disc can rupture or tear more, causing more pain and possibly more nerve damage, even paralysis and loss of bladder control, which can be permanent. What is the date that strict crate rest started? STRICT means:
- no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no dragging or meandering at potty times. - no PT - no chiro therapy Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps.
Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> Fixed broken link: www.dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/Any time a dog with IVDD exhibits pain or decrease in neuro function, you must immediately crate to protect the spine from further damage and get immediate medical advise. Whether a disc episode is mild or severe, 8 weeks of strict crate rest must be implemented to allow the damaged disc to heal. Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Owner understanding ensures proper conservative treatment principals: ▶︎ 4 phases of healing, what it takes to heal each phase: dodgerslist.com/in-the-right-place▶︎ Roadmap for your fridge so the whole family is on board. Stay the course, avoid dangerous detours for the healing disc: Fixed broken link: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdfThe guest board is a temporary Guest courtesy to get immediate help until you can register. I encourage you to register and login. That way all the features of the Forum are available to you, making it faster to reply and get an email alert about replies. It also makes is far easier for us to track your dog and give the best assistance. Illustrated what to expect during registration: www.dodgerslist.com/forumads/RegisterFORUM/register.htmPlease let us know what the vet says after speaking to them first thing this morning and what changes have been made to the meds. We will be watching for your reply so we can offer you further support. Healing prayers for Rocky. |
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Post by Katie & Rocky on Jul 25, 2023 19:04:31 GMT -7
Thank you so much, Karen and Marjorie! This is all super helpful.
I contacted the vet and was able to get ✙Gabapentin and ✙Methocarbamol as well as another round of Rimadyl. He'll start taking all three in just about an hour or so. I'll also be picking up some Pepcid AC tomorrow.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
14 lbs 9 y.o.
7/9 new neuro dimishment: rear delayed paw placement knuckling, wobbly, tail low
1. RIMADYL as of 7/18: below anti-inflammatory level:12.5mgs 1x/day for 5 days, Sun 7/23 a test STOP for: √7/25 pain / _neuro
Note: Rimadyl was Rx'd for 2x/day. Vet tech rx'd!!! & Owner self prescribed 1x/day
2, RIMADYL: anti-inflammatory level dose as of 7/25: 12,5mg 2x/day for 5 days, 7/30 test STOP for: __ pain and __ neuro
✙Gabapentin 100mg 2x/day for 7-10 days
✙Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day for 7-10 days
no stomach protection was Rx'd for duration of Rimadyl! ]
Rocky's crate rest started 7/18.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2023 19:52:18 GMT -7
Katie would you provide us the important details when you mention new meds, new doses, etc.
Gabapentin ?mg ?x/day
methocarbamol ?mg ?x/day
Rimadyl as of 7/18: 12.5mgs 1x/day for 5 days, Sun 7/23 a test STOP for: √7/25 pain / _neuro
as of 7/25: ?mg ?x/day for ? days, then a test STOP for: _pain and _neuro
True crate rest of 100% STRICT rest (no going on walks, being carried to and from the potty place and allowed minimal footsteps) seems to have started today with your increased knowledge of IVDD.
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Post by Katie & Rocky on Jul 25, 2023 20:11:42 GMT -7
Oops, yes!
Methocarbamol 500mg 1/4 tablet every 12 hours for 7-10 days
Gabapentin 100mg 1 capsule every 12 hours for 10 days
Rimadyl 25mg 1/2 tablet every 12 hours for 5 days
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2023 20:14:45 GMT -7
Pain meds last for 8 hrs. So if you are seeing any hint of pain surfacing before next doses or when he has to move such as a few minimal footsteps at potty time, reposition in his suite, alert the vet right away. Advocate for methocarbamol AND gabapentin to be Rx for promptly every 8 hrs. Do give the anti-inflammatory level of Rimadyl your vet Rx'd: 12.5 mgs twice a day. The inflammation in the spinal cord needs the anti-inflammatory level of Rimadyl get all the swelling resolved. Katie, do read up on how rimadyl is used during a disc episode. Normally when the Rimadyl stops, the pain masking pain meds also stop that same day on July 30. Here is the link so you can ask good questions and speak up for Rocky: ==> www.dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/ |
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Post by Katie & Rocky on Jul 25, 2023 21:18:48 GMT -7
Will do. Thanks so much, Paula!
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Post by Karen & Maddie on Jul 25, 2023 22:32:47 GMT -7
Katie, I also highly recommend the book “Honey, Have You Squeezed the Dachshund Yet?” a.co/d/c1srFaY This book is easy to read, fairly short, but written in a very accessible manner. There are several other IVDD books that I have and used, but t honestly, this is the best and most accessible of them all, I believe. [Karen, please do give us an update on your Maddie! Here is her link: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/9003/karens-maddie-23-conservative-grad ] |
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