Erika's Roux 7/20 surgery4wks Fr. Bulldog; GRAD 8/17

Welcome to Dodgerslist, Erika. So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. Know more about us and how we team up with veterinarians:
dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/

Disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things:
dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/hope-quality-life/

It's good to hear that Erika's pain is under control. Neuropathic pain is not common but is something you should be aware of. This kind of pain is abnormal, phantom pain sensations with severe spinal cord damage. Signs are obsessive licking of paw, leg, genitals, tail. Escalates to biting, life-threatening chewing off parts. Immediately put on an e-collar (or lengthwise folded towel around neck and duct taped closed) to prevent access to lower body. Contact vet immediately for Gabapentin or stronger Lyrica (pregabalin) for neuropathic pain. More info: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/10/neuropathy/?highlight=neuropathic

It really is important that you speak to the surgeon or your regular vet ASAP to get Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board.  Any time an anti-inflammatory such as Carprofen is being given, stomach protection is a must.  The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms.  Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer,then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
Doxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html
i.ibb.co/DCN9611/91x-Aj-s00z-L-SY355.jpg

Post-op crate rest is to allow the surgical sites to heal.
Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
STRICT for a post-op dog means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm
◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times.
Post-op dogs will follow surgeon's directives for PT during post-op rest as the offending disc material was surgically removed.

If there is great pain or severe neuro diminishment, acupuncture or laser light therapy can be be started right away as an adjunct to pain meds and to kick start nerve cell energy production. Options: Acupuncture vet who does home visits to avoid back moving during transports. For transport to necessary visits, pad out the recovery suite extra space with a rolled up towel/blanket to prevent body shifts during braking or cornering.
CAUTIONS: ~~ Laser light therapy is contra-indicated with tumors which are detected via x-ray.
~~ Why Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/
Also water therapy can be performed after the stitches/sutures are removed. Some of these exercises can be done right in the bathtub. Many members have found underwater treadmills to be very helpful in regaining their dogs' use of their legs. Please check with the surgeon before starting any of these.
dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/

How often are you trying to express? It could have been excitable urination or it could have been leaking when picked up due to a full bladder.  Until you become proficient in expressing and that definitely can take some practice, do try to express every 2-3 hours.   Review video then get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

DOGs with BLADDER CONTROL:  Hopefully someone will have a harness recommendation for you. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps unless surgeon has directed some walking PT. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! i.ibb.co/K7HNj10/slingwalk.jpg

Please do be aware that should conservative care be attempted in the future, it takes a full 8 weeks of strict crate rest to heal a damaged disc, no matter how severely that disc has been damaged.

Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn.

﹆1 Remove yourself from the dark scary unknown. Be in command of the 4 phases of healing, what to expect with pain, with swelling, disc and nerve healing. Get up to speed: dodgerslist.com/in-the-right-place

** dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Fridge-Flyer-promo.jpg
﹆2 Two FRIDGE FLYERs to print out
a) Help all of your family recognize emergency signs and action to take.
dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/emergency-fridge-flyer2.pdf
b) Avoid dangerous detours with the Conservative Roadmap for your fridge:
dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf

﹆3 Excellent IVDD video playlist: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGTcmjenJIkUNy9ke7IvPlFIMKFfjBSen

﹆4 At the MAIN WEBSITE, use the orange SEARCH bar feature to easily access the treasure trove of more IVDD information. You will feel so very empowered to help your dog! dodgerslist.com/

Please do continue to keep us updated.  We're here for you and Roux and will help you in any way that we can.  Healing prayers for Roux.

Erika, with your issues with a harness rubbing on stitches and difficulty in  lifting without expressing her mid lift, here are some ideas.

🚩 Use an expen for a recovery suite. Easier to get them out. And you will find the expen useful for things for the rest of Roux' life:
🚩 Swing out an ex-pen panel to convert to contained pee place with a pee pad for potty time. Then you just need to use a sling to help support rear legs.  Place a soiled piece of paper towel from her or your other dog as incentive to urinate with your command "go potty" in the house
🚩 If you can safely carry her 19.51lbs/8.85kg supporting both ends, then do potty outdoors in a 6' diameter ex-pen area to keep footsteps to minimum til neuro allows more physical movement.  Use a rear sling to support hind end
🚩 Figure 8 sling that does not press on the belly causing expressing like release of urine,

Discuss when soonest passive post-op PT can begin at home. Many dogs do start at home PT soon after surgery. Do get the ok from your surgeon first, of course.

Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain those muscles 

with lost nerve connection and keep the joints flexible 

while nerve cells regenerate.

Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog: 

Time to heal and bring back functions
Calm your mind. Gain a realistic idea of how long it takes to heal. This is one of the most frequent questions asked. Here is the answer:
🚩 dodgerslist.com/most-asked-disc-disease-ivdd-questions
🚩 Arm yourself with IVDD information about the disease your dog was born with. A shortcut thru IVDD: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/%E2%80%8B
🚩 Sniff and pee test.
    The "sniff and pee test" is the only way for humans to determine whether bladder control exists. Carry the dog outdoors, set her down on an old pee spot for a sniff. Make sure that neither the sling nor your hands are on the stomach region as this could put pressure on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. Until you are certain that full voiding is always occurring, continue to do a quick express check after dog pees. Tell us what you observe when you do the test.
🚩 Typcial order of nerve function return. There is no timeline, just the usual order of return. Now having DPS bodes well for more nerve repair!!!
1. √ 7/22 Deep Pain Sensation (DPS): the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. 
2. __ Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.
3. __ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. __ Leg Movement, and then
   __ ability to move up into a standing position, and then
   ___ wobbly walking.
5. ___ Being able to walk with more steadiness and
  ___ properly place the paw without knuckling under.
6. __ Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/

Knuckling: 

thumb.ibb.co/k3dqRS/Knuckling.jpg

Lots of tips and ideas for setting up the mattress, using wipes & green tea for clean ups. Also how to convert your wire crate to a top opening one for easier lifting them out. Tips to  help the post-op rest go smoother:  dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/

Erika, some really nice positive news today! Roux is on a roll in the nerve healing department!!

Usual order of return of neuro functions
1. √ 7/22 Deep Pain Sensation (DPS): the first neuro function to return. treatment.
2. ____    Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.
3. √ 7/24  Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. √7/25 dreaming w/hip movement, and then
    ___    to move up into a stand position, and then
    ___   wobbly walking.
5. ___   Being able to walk with more steadiness and
    ___   properly place the paw without knuckling under.
6. ___   Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.

Will she tolerate your doing the range of motion with her in a stand position? Well actually she'd be kinda leaning on your bended knee for rear end support or support with your other hand?  See rehab therapist demoing standing range of motion:  

MISSING med info:
traZODone 50mgs ?x/day
✙Prolosec ?mg ?x/day for duration of carprofen! ]

Let us know the results of the urinalysis and which antibiotic if shown there is an infection.

Dogs that have trouble emptying the bladder sometimes get a UTI. This is despite our best efforts. I am glad that Roux is now on antibiotics. Hopefully, she will feel better soon.

Roux making an effort to push herself into a standing position is a step forward in the healing process. Have you been able to do the range of motion exercise, as Paula mentioned, from a standing position? That may help with the knee stiffness.

Good news that she is fully emptying her bladder. She only urinates twice a day, even though given more opportunity to go? Sometimes a UTI makes it painful to pee. Once the UTI clears up, she may go more often.

You report this morning of still having bladder control. Are you referring to/using the tool that lists the usual order of nerve repair?  

If there would be a loss or diminishment it would happen in the reverse order. IF, if it should be an actual nerve diminishment that took place, Roux can still again self repair BECAUSE she still definately has to have deep pain sensation since you report she can still pee on her own.

Testing reflexes has nothing to do with nerve function... reflexes are automatic like you withdrawing your hand from a hot stove without needing your brain to tell you.  Reflexes do not involve the brain.

If Roux over did things & her muscles are sore, you won't likely be able to observe her attempting to move up into a stand until that soreness eases. Maybe the carprofen would ease the pain and she will attempt to move up in to a stand sooner??  Maybe you'll see her dreaming and moving legs?? Let us know what you observe.

1. √ 7/22 Deep Pain Sensation (DPS): the first neuro function to return. TRUST ONLY THE WORD of a neuro or orth surgeon.
2. ____ Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.
3. √ 7/24 Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. √ 7/25 dreaming w/hip movement, and then
    √ 7/27 attempt to move up into a stand position, and then
     ___   wobbly walking.
5. ___   Being able to walk with more steadiness and
    ___ properly place the paw without knuckling under.
6. ___ Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
     __ to move up into a stand position, and then   
    ___ wobbly walking.
5. ___ Being able to walk with more steadiness and
    ___ properly place the paw without knuckling under.
6. ___ Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.

Erika, so glad to hear the gabapentin has brought Roux comfort from pain!

Usually bladder and bowel control return pretty closely in time.  Sounds like the self healing of bowel control nerves is somewhat slower for Roux.

Let us know what types of rehab Roux will have.  Underwater treadmill at some point?

The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water buoyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal path ways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.

Her first rehab session on 8/2 went well!

The Neurologist and rehab vet agree - she definitely has motor function but it's weak. It has them scratching their heads because her bladder control is so strong. They say usually the motor function is more developed before their bladder is as dependable as hers.

They're hopeful rehab will get her motor function to catch up. If it is not improving by 15th/17th they recommend reimaging to see if she further damage that needs to be addressed.

After rehab I saw her trying to stand again, it was the strongest it's been since she had her tumble and yelp. I also saw some purposeful foot movement on her back left when I was walking her on a potty break, just a tiny bit of pushing off.

Can't believe I haven't posted since the 3rd! It both feels like only yesterday and seems so long ago.

The difference since her first day of rehab has been night and day. On the way to her second session on 8/10 I saw her stand up again! By that evening she started wobble walking in earnest. We no longer use the sling. She continues to get better everyday but really makes leaps and bounds of progress on rehab days.

The neurologist dropped in during her rehab session and saw her again on 8/17 (her 3rd birthday) to determine if she was done with crate rest or not yet. We did drop off for her appointment so I have not heard what he determined yet.

She is doing really well with land exercises, underwater treadmill and laser therapy. We could transfer her to a facility that also offers therapeutic ultrasound, shockwave therapy, electric stimulation and acupuncture. Do you think any of those therapies are likely to help her more with the last bits of her recovery than what she is already doing? I'd hate to move her for no reason.

Erika, just great to hear about Roux's wonderful progress to now walking w/o a sling!

With graduation on 8/17, take a gradual re-introduction back to family life activity. Sounds very much like continuing with land exercises  and underwater treadmill can provide continued practice in the art of walking. Eventually her gait can likely return to what you seek in for a more normal one.


GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION
     Determine how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation from rest. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free rein of the house and yard immediately! LOL
     Gradually building your dogs muscles over a month's time with supervised time out of her recovery suite will have her safely running and having fun again!  Check out this information to what applies to Roux's current abilities: www.dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/

DIY back PROTECTION around the house
   **
1) Good ideas in making your home back friendly:   dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backs/

2) Ideas and products to provide improved traction if she needs it on slick floors: www.dodgerslist.com/2022/10/08/traction-solution-improvements/

3) Teach your dog to be safe and not jumping up or down, but to use a ramp whether over steps leading outdoors or to furniture in the house.
Dogs are best at visual learning rather than verbal commands. Dog trainer Anna Jane Grossman says “Dogs learn in pictures. Inside your dog’s brain is a very simple algorithm – pleasant images in one place and unpleasant images in another."

HAPPY DAYS AHEAD
Lots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog such as how to handle dentals, nail trims, safe ways to have fun together, and more:
dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips-2

PT THERAPY AT CLINIC or HOME
     Safety first. You should always consult with a veterinarian before starting any exercise program with your dog. 
    -- Strengthening core muscles.
This applies not just for humans, but REALLY applies to the IVDD dog:
    Core exercises don't require specialized equipment. Here are 5 exercises you can do at home: totofit.com/five-basic-exercises-essential-to-building-core-strength/

May we turn the tables and ask YOU for help?
      Did you know there are less than a handful who volunteer daily to help dogs and their owners? We need helping hands from other Forum members in educating.
      Education about disc disease is our number one mission!
We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Too many dogs are put to sleep because owners lack education about IVDD treatment. STRICT crate rest and proper medication have helped many dogs recover. We depend on all members to pay it forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate!

Pick what suits you....
We depend on you. Here are some ways to help..
             
-- When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas, Frenchies) give out our free little wallet cards.
Hand carry our literature and print out our letter of introduction for your vet.
           ►ORDER BROCHURES & cards, they're free!◀︎ 
          for your vet and wallet cards for you
          i.postimg.cc/HxfzpNkT/help-order-350-32kb.jpg

-- Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions about surgery?
We have a directory where you can share surgical info.
          Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendations
    State:
    Hospital:
    Address:
    Cost:
    Date of surgery:
    What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.)
    Comments:

And finally, don't be a stranger! Stop in periodically. We really do love to hear how your dog is doing. We'd love a short video clip to see Roux in action at home, at PT and living & loving life in spite of IVDD!
    if you see a new member in a tough spot, give them hope. A brief paragraph about your dog can be insanely supportive and inspiring in a time of need!