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Post by Kate & Stan on May 30, 2023 1:09:12 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Say hello to Stan]
Thank you for letting us join. I’ve been feeling completely lost and I can see already that this is a lovely forum.
Stan is an 11 year old Border Terrier (the light of my life!). He weighs 7.5kg - he’s put on 200g in the past three weeks so I’ve cut his food down very slightly from this morning.
He’s had [5/9?] a bad back for three weeks. Our vet recommended strict crate rest and has seen him once a week for a checkup. He said yesterday that he won’t need to see him for another two weeks.
Stan is on 1/4 paracetamol (we’re in the UK) 3x daily and 100mg Gabapentin 3x daily. He also has Tramadol which he is given on an as needed basis (fortunately only once so far).
He reacts badly to nsaids.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
7.5g (16.53 pounds) 11 y.o.
5/9 left back leg collapses
5/30 left back leg wobbles
no anti-inflammatory; bad reaction to NSAIDs
paracetamol 1/4 tag 3x/day
gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day
traMADol as needed not given]
It is suspected ivdd because he has only had an x-ray so far but our vet said that ivdd is almost certainly what is wrong. We live in a very remote location and the nearest vet with an mri scanner is a 7 1/2 hour car journey plus ferry journey away and Stan hasn’t been up to that just yet. The x-ray did show that he has a very narrowed spinal canal and arthritis in his spine. He is eating and drinking normally and is urinating and defecating without help. He has some neurological deficit affecting his left back leg.
When he was first [5/9ish?] taken to the vet Stan was collapsing onto his hind quarters but he has become steadier…although still has a wobble when he walks for the vet. We have been very strict with his crate rest.
It’s been a very scary time. Coming across this site and forum has allowed me to hope that he can make a good recovery.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 30, 2023 6:07:30 GMT -7
Moderator Paula is reading your post and preparing a reply. 👀 Please refresh your browser to see new replies. Kate, thank you for registering! Check out this benefit open to you: ➡️ EMAIL ALERTS You can receive email alerts when someone has posted. Timely interaction/communications is needed when helping your dog. Bookmark your dog's thread to receive an email alert when someone has replied. Go to the CONSERVATIVE board: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/6/conservative 1. Look for your dog's thread and checkmark it. 2. Look for the white ACTIONS button towards top. 3. Select “Notification Options" from the pull down menu — check mark “NEW POST” change from never to INSTANT email — press the SAVE button. Click the “x” to close the window 4. Next choose the “Bookmark” See the tiny book symbol now! i.postimg.cc/GhKYTNg7/Bookmarking.jpg ** ➡️ QUICK REPLY: Easy, fast and recommended! Go to the " Quick reply" typing area at bottom of your dog's thread to write a reply. Quick Reply allows scrolling up to a previous post & back down to the "Quick Reply" typing area to continue your own post.
i.postimg.cc/SQ95jsfc/QUICK-REPLY350.jpg ➡️ MOBILE DEVICES "Desktop" view is best for the Forum. i.postimg.cc/rpcSRrsp/Desktop-mode320.jpg ** |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 30, 2023 7:13:56 GMT -7
Welcome Kate! Wonderful news that neuro function in the back left leg has improved from collapsing to now wobbly. The focus on the 8 weeks of STRICT rest is for the disc to heal. Nerves may or may not be able to heal in that short of time. However, Stan's did show healing!!! Stan is on a very good path of healing with a great potential for even more nerve healing to take place with time. Keep up the good work of being very attentive to STRICT limited movement of his back. Sometimes it helps to visual what goes on inside the body with too much movement of the vertebrae in the back:
Here are some things to consider: STRICT rest means not just at home to limit movement of the spine. At potty time keep footsteps to the bare minimal. Carry him to and from the potty place back to his recovery suite. It takes 8 weeks of limited movement of the back for the disc to heal. Check out these tips to ==> make STRICT rest go smoother Vet visits also must be given careful consideration to only the most urgent of health reasons. Weigh the risk to the healing disc of too much movement in a car transport with what the benefit would be. Discuss with your vet phone update in 2 weeks instead of vet visits. Vets who know IVDD under stand that phone updates can be used to report your observations of neuro improvement or decline (caused by too much movement), adjustments to meds. If there were to be a very serious health issue requiring a vet visit protect his healing disc.  DIET Now is not the time to start a diet. The reason is nutrition is never more important than during healing. The body actually needs additional protein and nutrients because the body is calling upon its reserves to fuel all the many repair jobs that have to be performed so that healing can take place. Now is no time to be restricting and denying the body that badly needed nutrition by reducing portions just because because of inactivity. Instead, cut out commercial hi-cal treats and sub for low cal small pieces of apple, carrot or frozen green beans, frozen broth cube to lick on. More on ==> Nutrition and Diet
MEDS Sorry to hear Stan reacts badly to NSAID. Could you describe what "badly" means? This is the usual way a disc episode is treated.
-- an anti-inflammatory such as a steroid or a NSAID to resolve painful swelling around the spinal cord
-- pain meds to provide full comfort from pain while the anti-inflammatory takes 7 to 30 days to get rid of the swelling around the cord.
-- Vets take a guess to give the anti-inflammatory for 7 or 14 days.
-- When the anti-inflammatory ends, the pain meds are also stopped to see if all swelling is really gone.
Discuss with the vet when he is going to stop the pain meds used now for 21 days. He and you need to know if all pain is gone in an accurate way. Pain meds naturally block you from the truth about pain.
FILL US IN on a few details:
1. What is the bad reaction Stan has to NSAIDs?
2. What was the date of the disc episode 3 weeks ago?
3. Is there any particular area of care you would like help with?
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Post by Kate & Stan on May 30, 2023 10:02:30 GMT -7
Thanks so much for your reply Paula - I’m grateful for all the advice. Stan’s disc episode happened in the evening 5/7 and we got him to the vet on 5/8. He had nsaids last year following an injury to his cruciate ligament (which he has completely recovered from following lateral suture surgery). The vet said that there weren’t any other types of nsaid that he could have. I have been in touch to ask them about oral steroids as these have not been mentioned before. I will also ask about stopping his current pain meds so that we can see exactly how he is doing pain wise.
Unfortunately, today Stan has had a wobble and a separate collapse onto his hindquarters. He’s steady again now. I am going to talk to the vet about the possibility of a phone update in 2 weeks. It’s very upsetting to be trying so hard at home and then have some of that hard work undone by travelling. The vet also had him walking around the consultation room for 2 or 3 minutes yesterday which I think was too much for Stan.
I have followed your advice and given Stan his normal food portion tonight - Stan says thanks very much!
Thank you again for all your advice. I appreciate it very much.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 30, 2023 10:53:39 GMT -7
Kate, asked specifically what was the problem with NSAID for Stan. The reason is some vets are not appreciative that the stomach needs to be protected. NSAIDs causes extra acids that lead to loose stool, bleeding ulcers, red or black blood in the stool. When a stomach protector is used most dog do find on a NSAID. Of course there can be other reasons that some dogs do not tolerate NSAIDs. We are interested if it was GI tract damage. Pepcid AC possible then could make a NSAID or a steroid a possiblity for Stan if he actually has pain existing but covered up by pain meds. One can only know if all pain is gone when the pain meds are stopped. 3 reasons why acid suppressor Pepcid AC: ==>https://dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/ Know your anti-inflammatory drugs in order to discuss things with a vet: Vets choose an anti-inflammatory during a disc episode to get painful swelling down in about 7-30 days. These powerhouse meds do wonders OR they can be dangerous. Vets who practice safe medicine and owners up to speed on medications make all the difference. Did you get all four questions right? ** i.postimg.cc/9MqP4ndF/healingsweling.jpg
The decline to now a return of collapsing rear very likely means the early healing disc was redamaged with too much movement and the entire 8 weeks of disc healing would re-start from square one as of 5/29.
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