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Post by Kasie & Winslow on Apr 20, 2023 12:28:19 GMT -7
1 - - strangely, Winslow has never been in pain with this flare up. He was slightly uncomfortable in the morning [4/20] but once he was awake for an hour he felt fine. No muscle spasms, trembling, shivering, arched back, or yelping. He rubbed his watery eyes (allergies) on the carpet and then (I assume) lost feeling in his right leg and couldn’t stand up. I stood him up and he could walk fine on his left leg but his right leg is wobbly.
2 -- Winslow is a 9 (will be 10 in August) year old French bulldog that weighs 35lbs. He is currently prescribed:
- Gabapentin 300mg 2x a day.
- Trazodone 50mg once every 12-24 hours.
No NSAIDS/steroids***this could potentially change after bloodwork is cleared.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
35 lbs 10 y.o. in August
gabapentin 300 mgs 2x/day
traZODone 50 mgs 1-2x/day]
3 - no stomach pain/ulcers/vomiting. Still eating and drinking fine.
4 - Winslow the French bulldog. Kasie the human.
5 - He was originally diagnosed November 2017 by a DVM, DACVIM for a slipped disc in his neck. He has been flare up free since that original slip. He was in an IMMENSE amount of pain. He got an MRI but was able to manage his pain with medication & did 8 weeks of strict crate rest. He did not require surgery.
- This time around, he is seeing the same neurologist as last time & he has hind leg weakness, lameness in his right leg but no pain. The neurologist assumes this is from a disc in his mid-back slipping but currently there is no specific diagnosis at the moment because we are waiting on X-ray and blood work results. Once the X-rays and blood work come back (tomorrow) we will be able to schedule an MRI if is able to tolerate anesthesia.
6 - Symptoms started last night 4/19 at 6pm. He was seen by the Neurologist at 11am today 4/20. We don’t have a plan as of yet due to the fact he isn’t in any pain and we are waiting on blood work/X-ray results.
7 - Yes, he still is in control of his bladder and has gone in his own since the hind leg lameness started.
8- - yes he can walk, he does have lameness/weakness in his right leg but he walks wobbly.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 20, 2023 13:28:51 GMT -7
Welcome (back) to Dodgerslist, Kasie. I am sorry that Winslow is having another disc episode. You can get back up to speed on IVDD and the Conservative treatment of Strict crate rest and appropriate meds. As you may recall, crate rest is very strict. STRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no dragging or meandering at potty times . Carry Winslow to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. We have a lot of information on crate rest and setting up a safe and comfy recovery suite here: www.dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-proc
You can learn what to expect for each phase of healing at the page below: www.dodgerslist.com/in-the-right-place
The pain and neuro deficits of IVDD are caused by inflammation of the spinal cord nerves. This inflammation is treated with anti-inflammatories. Your neuro is practicing safe medicine by ordering a blood test to verify Winslow's liver and kidneys are healthy before starting the medications. Information on medications typically prescribed during an IVDD episode is below: www.dodgerslist.com/meds-used-during-disc-episode/Dogs often have excess stomach acid during an IVDD episode. This is because pain, body changes and changes in routine are stresses. This excess acid can cause stomach damage, just as humans can experience ulcers when under stress. To limit the chances of damage, a stomach protector like Pepcid AC is used. Ask the vet if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. The dose of famotidine may require reduction in dogs with liver or kidney disease.
Refresh your memory on all things IVDD. A good place to start is with our illustrated IVDD primer: dodgerslist.com/category/ivdd-101#primer |
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Post by Kasie & Winslow on Apr 20, 2023 14:00:31 GMT -7
Thank you so much! I guess I am just looking for some opinions on what path someone would take in this situation. Or looking for dogs with similar symptoms to see what path they took. I did conservative last time and it worked beautifully and it took almost 6 years before another flare up. But this time around he is experiencing some hind leg weakness, & no pain, almost the opposite of the first time around. The neurologist recommended the MRI (as long as test results are okay) but I’m 50/50 on if it’s necessary to go through with the surgery when he isn’t in pain and I’m able to strict crate rest him. It’s such a hard decision and I remember struggling with it the first time around as well.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 20, 2023 14:16:22 GMT -7
IVDD is typically very painful, but occasionally a dog will only have neuro symptoms. If the neuro thinks it may be another disease and not an IVDD episode, then an MRI may be needed. If the neuo is quite confident it is IVDD, then an MRI might not be necessary, unless surgery is being planned. For surgery, the surgeon needs the information from the MRI to know where to operate. Conservative treatment will treat all the discs so that precise information may not be needed.
Winslow is a good candidate for conservative treatment during this episode because his neuro symptoms are fairly mild. Surgery is often considered in the following situations:
• If your dog can't walk OR with STRICT crate rest, neurological functions worsen and are lost (legs and bladder control) • STRICT crate rest has been practiced and after several attempts to go off of the anti-inflammatory, the pain returns • If 100% STRICT crate rest has been practiced and pain medications have been adjusted (dose, frequency, and mix of pain relievers) yet the pain can’t be brought under control • if a dog is experiencing similar signs of neck or back pain, or mild neurological deficits for the 3rd or 4th time, meaning it may be the same disc is involved.
The page below has information about surgery vs conservative treatment and may help with your decision: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 20, 2023 18:06:02 GMT -7
Kasie, good to hear you've been doing strict rest when it happened 4/19. Until there is a diagnosis this is not a disc episode that is the correct action to take to prevent further suspicion of disc damage and prevent further impinging the spinal cord beyond only right rear leg wobbliness.
Usually there is pain with a disc episode. There are also cases where there was no pain observed. There are also other diseases that can mimic a disc episode. So the MRI is to rule out any suspicions your neuro may have of a different disease.
Usually with mild neuro diminishment, if this is a disc episode, a surgeon would choose the least invasive treatment of meds and strict rest (conservative treatment).
So we will be looking to find out what the neuro's diagnosis is and the treatment. Please do keep us posted.
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Post by Kasie & Winslow on Apr 21, 2023 8:35:21 GMT -7
Thank you both so much. I am currently waiting on the X-ray/blood work results (that I should have in the next few hours  ) in order to schedule the MRI, I will keep everyone posted. He is the same today, no better but no worse and still no obvious signs of pain. It’s still so shocking that there is no obvious pain because last time he was screaming in pain and it was just the most horrific thing to watch. Hoping for the path of least resistance for this guy because he will be 10 soon <3 |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 21, 2023 13:29:51 GMT -7
Kasie, good to hear Winslow is remains stable in neuro and not in pain. It will be good to hear what the Neuro diagnosis is so there can be a treatment to match if this is not a disc episode.
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Post by Kasie & Winslow on Apr 21, 2023 17:01:02 GMT -7
Chest/abdomen x-rays and bloodwork were clear! His MRI is scheduled for Wednesday 4/26, I will know more then & update everyone.
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Post by Kasie & Winslow on May 1, 2023 12:21:20 GMT -7
Diagnosis SM So, MRI was done [4/26/2023] last week . The neurologist said that he doesn’t currently have any slipped or herniated discs
but he as an overload of spinal fluid in the spinal column. She also said he has a lot of congenial abnormalities in his spine, she was surprised he hasn’t had more issues over the years. They did a spinal tap to make sure he didn’t have an infection and he didn’t. With the spinal tap they saw that he didn’t have much inflammation in the spinal fluid but that there was just a lot of fluid in the column. He was diagnosed with SM. The excess of spinal fluid presses on the spinal cord and causes IVDD like symptoms. His treatment is medication, rest and physical therapy. He isn’t in a ton of pain at all, just a little shaky in the mornings but his back legs are still really wobbly. They put him on Prednisone 5mg 2x a day Gabapentin 300mg 2x a day Trazodone 10mg as needed She said crate resting him for a few weeks is a good idea & after he will mostly need to be treated like glass, ensuring he uses the ramps we have, only being in the crate when I leave the house etc. Has anyone dealt with something like this? Thank you. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2023 13:01:58 GMT -7
Kasie, we do know there are other diseases which can mimic Intervertebral Disc Disease (IVDD). So very glad you got a diagnosis confirmed by a neuro so that the treatment can now match the disease. What does SM stand for?I hope you will understand when we explain this Forum is narrowly focused on IVDD and that is really our only experience and expertise where we feel we have good information to share with you backed by our associations and consults with professionals in the field dodgerslist.com/2020/04/20/education-team-ivdd . We don't feel comfortable about giving information on other diseases in that our comments could be harmful. If we can be of help with the things your Neuro wants outside of meds, future expectations... such as help with Winslow accepting crate rest, encouraging non or low-impact fun games, etc. we'd be glad to comment on such narrow topics. You may be able to find a group who focuses on SM to give you better support. Worth doing a search and vetting the group as to who they associate with, etc. |
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) in order to schedule the MRI, I will keep everyone posted. He is the same today, no better but no worse and still no obvious signs of pain. It’s still so shocking that there is no obvious pain because last time he was screaming in pain and it was just the most horrific thing to watch. Hoping for the path of least resistance for this guy because he will be 10 soon <3