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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 13, 2023 11:10:27 GMT -7
[Original subject line: New Jean’s Mimi] Hi, Well, I cannot believe I am back here, but here we are. I feel like I am an old hat. Here are our details:
Dogs name/age/breed: Mimi, age 16, mini-dashund, 13.5 lbs Officially Diagnosed IVDD (7th time) by a vet
Treatment - crate rest
Date started: 3/12/23
Medications: famatodine, 10 mgs 1x per day (vet said ok to give once a day instead of breaking it up). Carprofen 12.5 mg, 2 x per day Gabapentin - 50 mgs, up to 3x per day Tramadol - 25 mgs, 2 x per day (if needed)
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 13.6 lbs 16 y.o. carprofen as of date?: 12.5mgs 2x/day for ? days, then test STOP: _pain?/_neuro? gabapentin 50mgs ?x/day actually given? traMADol 25mgs 25mgs ?x/day actually given? famotidine 10mgs 1x/day]
Symptoms: loss of most of rear legs (can still balance to pee and poop with support - mostly on right leg), some proprioception in both rear paws, and pain response. Can still pee and poop on own. Sling to go potty
There does not seem to be pain. She is resting comfortably in her crate, is eating and will bark for treats or when she wants affection.
Really worried this time… She has never had this severe a loss of function before. Prior she lost function and one leg only. She is not wagging her tail. I am really sad and worried because of her age. I am willing to give her time to recover, but I will not let her suffer at this point in her life. as long as she still wants love, affection and treats, I will do everything I can to help her.
Let me know If kore details are needed.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 13, 2023 13:12:25 GMT -7
Hi Jean, oh dear, I'm sorry to hear Mimi has had another disc episode. The great thing is you knew to crate at once on 3/12 and get to a vet to prevent further damage to the spinal cord and the disc. Did Mimi see an ER vet on Sunday 3/12 or her regular vet? What date did the carprofen start?Some things to consider · Pepcid AC lasts for about 12 hours. That is the reason to dose it every 12 hours. Is there an issue with dosing that often? · It is always a worry for us to see them with leg weakness, for sure. Do keep in mind the usual progression of nerve diminishment. You can see there is still good hope. Good hope that Mimi will likley self repair the leg nerve damage. MONITORING NEURO FUNCTIONS As damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example. 1. √ Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing swelling 2. √ Wobbly walking l √ legs cross 3. √ R&R rear Paws knuckle under. √ slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all? 5. ? Weak/little leg movement such as to reposition in crate? ? can't move up into a stand? 6. __ Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. __ Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. __ Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. __ Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a general vet who gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/Do let us know the details of the back legs: Can she move up into a stand? Can she right her back paws even if slowly. Or can't at all?That is good the vet did give you a range to use the meds. So we can follow along do tell us what you actually are given now and how long a course of Carprofen. carprofen start date?: 12.5mgs 2x/day for ? days, then a test STOP for: _pain?/_neuro? gabapentin 50mgs ?x/day actually given? traMADol 25mgs 25mgs ?x/day actually given?
Just a reminder there is alway an option to use an aggressive pain med approach if what you give now does not provide dose to dose full management of pain. -- Pain meds last for about 8 hrs. An aggressive dose is 3x/day dosing -- There are normally 3 sources of pain. Thus vets typically provide pain management for all 3 sources: traMADol as the over all analgesic. gabapentin for nerve pain methocarbamol for muscle contraction pain.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 13, 2023 13:25:54 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Yes, sad to be back but I know all the signs. This time however, there was absolutely no pain!!! She has never been in pain, just the wobbly loss of her legs yesterday and today they progressed to little or no usage.I can split up the famatodine - not a big deal for me to do that so I will In response to your questions: Her paws are completely knuckled under when taking out to potty. When she was at the vet today and he was doing the testing, she was able to move her right paw, after a short pause, when he tested. Her left had a little mobility but not much. She cannot get her legs under her at all. I thought she may have had a bit more mobility this morning, but it was very dark out and I couldn't really tell (trying hold a flashlight and minimize her steps didn't allow me to get a good look). But, when I take her out to potty, she is able to get her right leg a bit into her squatting mode to pee. SHe peed this afternoon (after the vet) and pooped this morning). Her tail is not wagging at all. But she is perky, and will bark at me for affection from her crate or for treats. I think she is very stressed that she cannot use her back legs at all. It is very stressful for me. She started the evening dose of carprofen last night and will continue on that for at least a week. THe vet said to call him to assess really if she is getting any function back. The gabapentin was given once today and she will get it again tonite. I got the tramadol and will give it to her this evening. Again, not seeing any pain at all. I just think this may be it for her legs. I am not hopeful. I am very scared and sad right now. I never felt this before with her other episodes. She is deaf and partially blind too. It is is truly tragic.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 13, 2023 16:18:19 GMT -7
I'm so sorry to hear that Mimi is having yet another disc episode, Jean. Do try to stay positive. And do try to use a happy voice around Mimi. They easily pick up on our moods. Tell her every day that she's getting better and you believe it, too!
It's good that she still has deep pain sensation and some movement. With the worsening of her condition while on conservative care, did the vet discuss the possibility of surgery with you when you met today? We have seen many older dogs do very well with surgery. Or is surgery not an option?
When the Carprofen is stopped, the pain meds should be stopped, too. You may remember that from Mimi's other disc episodes. Having pain meds on board once the anti-inflammatory has stopped will mask any pain that you need to see to determine if there is still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine. Do speak to the vet about stopping the pain meds when Carprofesn is stopped. Should you see any sign of pain at that point, then you would need to immediately advise the vet so the meds can be restarted for a bit longer.
I do know how scary this can be. Try to take it one day at a time. We've seen many, many dogs with complete paralysis recover with conservative care and Mimi is not paralyzed. She has some movement. You may or may not see that recover occur during the 8 weeks of conservative care, it may take a bit longer. Hang in there. We're here for you and Mimi. Healing prayers for Mimi.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 14, 2023 2:45:58 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie,
Thank you as always for your kind words. Surgery is not an option due to her age and frail health.
Last night was difficult. She was very stressed and would only rest if we were right next to her crate. Then she would settle and sleep. This never happened with prior episodes. The loss of her legs is very stressful for her.
On a positive note she drank a few times overnight and did not pee in her crate but as soon as I took her out she took a few steps with her front legs and then peed right away. So still bladder control. She also took the opportunity to do a full body flap and I saw her tail move. A full body flap is also a good sign that there is no pain.
however, I am noticing her holding a very stiff posture so that means pain. I already have a call in to my vet this am. I will get this pain under control.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2023 10:23:31 GMT -7
Jean, do let us know the details on med adjustments. Vet has many options to adjust meds not yet taken.
Excellent she retains bladder control, meaning her neuro functions have not declined. Getting pain fully in control, allows her to continue with crate rest in comfort.
Do you have a pet stroller? A lot of dogs enjoy being up higher to see around their home. Also you can keep her by your side as you move about the house or relax on the couch/recliner.
Do you have someone to care for her (potty times) while you are out at work?
At night you could put her crate on a sturdy table beside your bed. That was she can see and smell you, you can put your fingers through the wires to comfort her.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 14, 2023 11:14:57 GMT -7
Hi,
I spoke to my vet. Below please find the updated dosing after our discussion with my vet.
Famatodine: 5 mgs 2x per day, 1/2 hr before carprofen and food Carprofen: 12.5 mgs, 2x per day ▲Tramadol: 25 mgs, 3x per day ✙Methocarbamol: 125 mgs, 3x per day ▲Gabapentin: 50 mgs, 3x per day (with vet permission to increase to 100 mgs 3x per day) Trazadol [trazodone]: 25 mgs 2 x per day. The trazadol is for her anxiety. This is given at my discretion.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 13.6 lbs 16 y.o. carprofen as of date?: 12.5mgs 2x/day for ? days, then test STOP: _pain?/_neuro? gabapentin ▲100mgs ▲3x/day ✙Methocarbamol: 125 mgs 3x/day ▲traMADol 25mgs ▲3x/day trazodone 25mgs 2x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]
Right now she is fast asleep in her crate. We put a warm blanket (fresh from the dryer) when we put her back from potty earlier. I think she was exhausted.
I work from home most days so I can manage potty. The days I don’t, my husband gets home by 2. And my son is home so he can assist (son is an adult).
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2023 17:04:45 GMT -7
Jean, fingers crossed the med adjustments provide night and day freedom from pain. traMADol just in case to discuss with vet. This med could be used at the max analgesic for 13.6lbs (6 kg) Mimi: 6kg Mimi x 10mgs traMADol = 60mgs dose 3x/day Hope to hear the traZODone helps with anxiety. Maybe if she has full pain control, she will be able to relax in her suite? The day carprofen stops is an important day. We'd like to be prepared to follow along. And to know if the pain meds will also be stopped the day carprofen stops? More on how anti-inflammatory drugs are used during a disc episode: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/ What date did carprofen start? For how many days is she to use?
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 15, 2023 14:17:10 GMT -7
My sweet girl crossed the rainbow bridge. This was not IVDD - she had a stroke. There were other symptoms and our vet confirmed. Rest in peace angel girl. Thaank you all.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 15, 2023 14:27:23 GMT -7
Oh, Jean. I am so very sorry for your loss.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2023 16:47:46 GMT -7
Jean, anyone who has ever had a pet to love and care for understands how sad it is to say goodbye. I'm so sorry for the pain you are feeling in loosing your sweet Mimi. Warmest of ((hugs)) and sincere condolences to you and your family.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 15, 2023 17:49:43 GMT -7
Dearest Jean, my sincerest condolences to you and your family on this sad loss. Mimi had such a wonderful home with you and had such good, loving care. She was truly blessed to be part of your family. My prayers are with you as you grieve.
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