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Post by stella2013 on Sept 7, 2013 11:06:56 GMT -7
A mini dachshund came to us at the end of July and the week before Labor Day she had an accident and now can't use her hind legs. We cannot afford surgery and I have found this site helpful. I think I was walking her too much and now realize crate rest is very important. She urinates and defecates well, her appetite is bigger than it was before, she still scratches with her hind legs when she's on our couch and her tail wags perfectly. She likes to rub her nose and body on the couch when I take her out of her crate for a little love. I purchased some wheels but have not taken them out of the box yet as I'm sure it's too soon, though it appears she's ready. The vet said she had a degenerative disc at C13-L1(most popular it seems) and if she took a big leap that that's what probably did her in. We think she'e about 4-5 years of age and we love her very much. She's on prednisone for now and I'm going to ask the vet on Monday for how long. I heard rimadyl was successful also. I guess I would like some confirmation that I'm doing the right thing and any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you Val
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Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471 
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Post by Sabrina on Sept 7, 2013 12:23:26 GMT -7
Hi Val, my name's Sabrina. I'm so sorry Stella is having a disc episode. Have you found the Dodger's List main site? If not, here are some good places to start reading: Overview: Healing during a disc episode - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmIndex to Overview: Phases of healing - www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmYES, Your Dog CAN Have a Great Quality of Life! - www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmAlso, Dodger's List has a great informational DVD available ($3 shipping included): www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm It's great not only for your own education, but to show to friends, family, and anyone else involved in Stella's life. Could you fill us in on a few more details about Stella's current situation? -- What was the date you saw the vet and started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? For dogs who are treated "conservatively" (that is, they don't have surgery), a full 8wks of 100% Strict Crate Rest is need. The crate acts like a "cast" of sorts - it provides a solid, always level surface, and it also keeps our intrepid little dogs from jumping off the couch in the blink of an eye! The reason for the full 8wks is so that enough scar tissue can develop to protect the disc from further damage: "DAMAGED DISCS take about 8 weeks to heal and form secure scar tissue. There are no medications that help this along—only time and limited movement of the back and neck which is the purpose of crate rest. When a dog walks and moves, the vertebrae move, tearing down the important scar tissue that is forming to stabilize the disc rupture. Anytime out of the crate is a dangerous time for a healing disc. Only potty time and vet appointments are a necessity to be out of the crate. Be diligent about crate rest, cheating on crate rest promotes damage to the disc: no chiropractic therapy, no couches, no sleeping with you, no baths, or water therapy during the 8 weeks of crate rest." Conservative treatment for disc disease (IVDD) - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmCrate Rest Recovery Process - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmClark's helpful supplies for crate rest - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmBy "wheels", do you mean crate casters or a dog wheelchair? Vets who practice safe medicine never use steriods (like prednisone) and NSAIDs (like rimadyl) at the same time, or one after another without a 4-7 day "wash out": www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmAs Stella is on prednisone, is she on a stomach protector like Pepcid AC? If not, call your vet (or on-call vet) today and ask if there is any medical reason Stella may not take Pepcid AC. Many vets are slow to protect the stomach, but as dogs don't speak up at the first sign of trouble, by the time you notice symptoms you can be dealing with a dangerous GI problem: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/medications_used.htmlI know IVDD can seem overwhelming, especially at first! There is so much to read and learn. Do post back with more details on Stella so that the folks here can help you with personalized advice! We are here to support you as you help your Stella! ))Hugs!(( -Sabrina |
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Post by stella2013 on Sept 7, 2013 15:56:31 GMT -7
Hi Sabrina, thank you so much for your quick response and understanding. Overwhelming, for sure. OK to answer your questions: Date of accident and first vet visit was 8/26, saw vet again on Thurs. 8/29 as she was starting to drag her hind legs. Vet office kept her over Labor Day weekend. Very little shivering and tight tummy only after eating. I put a foam pad in her crate, is that not good? She's on prednisone(10 mg) twice daily. No pepcid AD was mentioned or recommended. When I take her out to pee, once in a while the first two steps seem hopeful then goes into a drag. Wags her tail like crazy!! No bed wetting, just one day when left over a 5 hour period. Eats and drinks excellently!! Normal poops but does not stop walking while pooping as before she hunched and held her ground. Yes, I bought wheelchair wheels, but have not taken out of box yet. I hope I answered the questions so you can feedback, thank you so much. Val
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Sept 7, 2013 20:04:56 GMT -7
So glad I could help! When my Charley was first diagnosed, I was a wreck until I found Dodger'sList! It's concerning that Stella is in pain after eating. As she's on prednisone, and prednisone can cause serious GI problems ( www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm ) it would be well to speak to your vet (or the on-call vet) as soon as possible. Stella needs stomach protection - in addition to being sure there's no medical reason not to give Pepcid AC, I would be asking for a second stomach protector, Sucralfate, to act as a sort of "bandage" for her upper GI tract. Sucralfate needs specific timing - you can read up on it here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/drugs.htm#intestinaldrugsHow much does Stella weigh? Her dose of prednisone is higher than what I've read is the "typical" anti-inflammatory dose (5mg 2x/day) - now I'm no veterinary professional, I'm just judging by the dose I've seen used on this forum. I would discuss her dose of prednisone with your vet (of course don't change any dosing of Stella's prednisone without vet directions!). A foam mattress pad is great to have in the crate! That makes a comfy bed and helps to prevent pressure sores. On potty breaks, are you using any sort of sling? (Apparently I can't get the imbedded pictures to work tonight!) www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpgOr some dogs are more comfortable with a figure 8 sling: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgUsing a sling at potty time helps to keep her back as stable as possible.Wheelchairs aren't recommended until all 8wks of crate rest are complete, and then only if needed: See "Wheelchair" at the bottom of this page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmDo let us know what the vet says about protecting Stella's stomach! ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by Pauliana on Sept 7, 2013 20:33:11 GMT -7
Hi Val, welcome to Dodgerslist. Sabrina gave you some wonderful links to begin learning about IVDD for Stella's sake. Please let your dog know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. What was the actual date you began crate rest for Stella, I need the date for your topic title? A foam pad is fine..These links that Sabrina gave you have pictures that show how we set up crates or recovery suites. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm Clark's helpful supplies for crate rest - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? I am concerned that the Vet didn't prescribe pain medications for Stella. Disc episodes are very painful. Tramadol, Methocarbamol and Gabapentin are the most commonly prescribed pain medications for IVDD. Here is a link that discusses pain and medications: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmShe should be on Pepcid AC to protect her stomach while she is on Prednisone. Ask your Vet this way" Is there any medical reason why Stella shouldn't be on Pepcid AC?" If there isn't a reason, it is available over the counter at the drug store and most grocery stores. We give small dogs 5mg which is half a tablet of the 10mg Pepcid AC.. Note that their is a maximum strength that is 20 mgs but it's easier to use the 10mg version and just cut the tablet in half. We give it 30 minutes before each dose of Prednisone. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmPlease call the vet and ask about Pepcid AC and discuss pain medications.. Walking must be limited and only a few steps. Carry Stella outside to potty. You can use a sling under her to help her balance when she walks her few steps. dodgergallery.ourdogs.net/recovery/slingwalk You will find while on Prednisone she will need to potty more often,about every 3 hours. It makes them very thirsty and hungry. Here is a video that shows the proper way to carry her. It is too soon for the Wheel cart.. first concentrate on crate rest and her time of healing. After 8 weeks you may not need it. If she does need it, you have it handy.. Right now she needs rest and time for her disc to heal crate rest is the only thing that heals the disc. Prednisone will work on the swelling and inflammation.. It is overwhelming for sure.. I went through it with my Tyler surgery back in late January..and again starting in mid July we had a milder episode. He is about to graduate crate rest on Monday. You can get through this with Stella and as the days and weeks go by, you will ease into a new normal and we will be here along the way. |
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Post by stella2013 on Sept 8, 2013 8:03:15 GMT -7
Thanks Pauliana, you and Sabrina have been a huge help. Stella does shiver a little at times, not always. Does this mean pain or is she cold or excited. She really doesn't appear to be in pain but I can ask for pain meds tomorrow when I ask the vet about pepcid AC and reducing her prednisone. I'll fill him in on Dodgerslist also and let him know that I'm getting a lot of helpful info. I am using a soft scarf as a sling for her when she goes out to potty. It's been very helpful. Each morning I take her out I notice she takes more and more steps on her own, this is giving me some hope. She is in a dog carrier that was for our previous sheltie and I like the info on the cage crate, we have a Petco so I'll be checking one of those out today. That will take care of the towels and blankets that absorb her water at times. Again, thank you for all the info and I'll post a photo of this little cutie as soon as I can, fondly, Val
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 8, 2013 12:30:11 GMT -7
Hi, Val. I would definitely speak to the vet about including pain medication when you speak to him tomorrow. Shivering can be a sign of pain. Dogs can be masters at hiding pain so we have to be on the lookout for any signs they might be showing. While it's great for us to see our dogs taking steps when we're concerned about walking, please keep those steps at potty time limited as much as you can. There will be plenty of time after crate rest for her to start taking more steps. Right now, you want to limit the movement of her spine as much as possible. Movement can tear the delicate scar tissue that is building up on the damaged disc. Let us know what the vet says after speaking to him tomorrow. All the best to you. Looking forward to seeing Stella's photo!  |
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 9, 2013 9:30:12 GMT -7
Hi, my name is Maureen. Stella sounds like she is making good progress You can create a potty area for her with that push in the ground garden edging to restrict the number of steps that she takes when outdoors. Just make a 6 foot in diamter circle - a lot of members have had great success with that. |
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Post by stella2013 on Sept 9, 2013 19:01:59 GMT -7
So i spoke with the vet today and she didn't really want to reduce the prednisone at this point. I'm going to bring Stella in on Wednesday so she can see how she's doing. She did say Pepcid was ok and was also very curious of the website where I was getting my information. She wants to show me some gentle exercises also. She also said unless she has deep pain there's probably not a good chance of her walking again. I feel a little differently since Stella has proven to be on her feet progressively. Well, we'll see. Will keep you updated
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Sept 9, 2013 19:25:32 GMT -7
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Sept 9, 2013 20:09:30 GMT -7
Still no pain meds prescribed?
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 10, 2013 7:31:41 GMT -7
Val, good job on getting Pepcid AC on board!!! Can you put on your detective hat to see if there are signs of pain. Observe whether shivering stops with a warm dryer towel meaning she was chilled or does shivering happen after moving or nearing the next dose of Pred meaning it is pain. How pred works
Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose, your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed. While pred is working on getting the swelling down no patience can be had about pain. Pain slows the whole healing process. So let us know if you are seeing any of these signs of pain, let your vet know on the phone this am so pain meds can help Stella be in comfort: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, not her normal perky self? So the question is IS Stella showing signs of pain which would indicate she does need to stay on pred a bit longer and also have pain meds on board. OR if not showing any signs of pain, it may be time to taper off of pred to test the waters that all swelling is gone. All these IVDD meds can do wonders but they also carry serious side effects and should only be used until the job has been completed. Pred does not help nerves heal…they do that all on their own. Ask what is her thinking behind wanting to continue Pred, it is only then you can participate meaningful in discussing things rather than just following instructions but not knowing the why's of it. At Dodgerslist we are all big time "why" people. We ask the DL Neuro consultants why's all the time and our own dogs' DVMs as well. Have you seen the Neuro Corner…lots of good information there: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner.htmPain meds typcially used with IVDDTramadol as the general pain reliever Methocarbamol for the pain that stems from muscle spasms More detail on both of these meds so you areina position to discuss things with your vet www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmNeuro StatusYour last reports were that she can wag her tail with happiness, has bladder control AND is moving her legs at potty time. Is that still the case currently? If yes, then she would necessarily have to have deep pain sensation. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. Stella--->4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. As Sabrina said, we would love to have you introduce us to your vet by printing out our letter of introduction and also order some of out literature for your vet. The "Crate Rest Recovery Process" brochure is a good addition to your vet's toolbox to help owners carry out the essential crate rest whether after surgery or during conservative treatment. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm |
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