Stephanine's Bailey 6/28 conservative; GRAD 8/23?

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Stephanine & Bailey
New Member

FEMALE - Dachshund . NOTE: email blocked

Posts: 1

Stephanine's Bailey 6/28 conservative; GRAD 8/23? Oct 20, 2022 16:34:34 GMT -7 via mobile

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Post by Stephanine & Bailey on Oct 20, 2022 16:34:34 GMT -7

[Original subject line: Question ]
☆ 1 still currently pain?
☐ reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow, ginger movements
☐ shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved
C tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position, appears restless
☐ Arched back ☐head held high or nose to the ground
☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
☐Not their normal perky selves?

☆ 2 16 lbs 5 years old
A.. Gabapentin 50mg TID, methocarbamol 500mg 1/4 tab TID, famotidine 1/2 tab BID,
herbal supplement [name of ?]once Dailey,
previcox 57 mg 1/2 tab qd. no date to stop,
Right now clavamox 125mg BID for UTI- this is a recurrent thing

[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 5 y.o.
Previcox as of 6/28: 57mg tab; 28.5 mgs 1x/day for ⚠️16+ weeks, without a TEST stop for _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 50 mgs 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mg 3x/day
clavamox 125mg 2x/day recurrent UTI
miralax
Name of herbal?
famotidine ?mgs 2x/day]

☆ 3 -- List any red flag signs of stomach damage.
☆ 4 Mini dachshund, Bailey Marie. Stephanine
☆ 5 Was the diagnosis IVDD? yes
-- Is the vet a general DVM? Rehabilitation therapist
☆ 6 What was the date you saw the vet for CONSERVATIVE treatment? 6/28/22

Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/

STRICT means:
- no laps - no couches
- no baths - no sleeping with you
- no dragging or meandering at potty times.
- no PT - no chiro therapy
Why Chiropractic is not recommended for pain for an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/

☆ 7 no she has to be expressed to pee, she can poop on her own, sometimes we do give miralax
wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted No

☆ 8 wobbly walk? move the legs at all? wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? -No

NEW INFORMATION about Baily just FOUND 10/21 6:13pm ON FACEBOOK:

Stephanine Thurs Oct 20, 3:21 pm
What about wheelchairs? We are 17 weeks out, never had surgery. We were going to but the surgeons said she had less than 10% chance to walk and they could not guarantee they would not put her in more pain. We have done hyperbaric oxygen treatments, laser treatments, and acupuncture every 2-3 weeks. Plus she is on all the normal meds gabapentin, methocarbamol, famotidine, NSAID’s, and a herbal [Exact name of ?] for her back.
However they do not want to give her a wheelchair because they think it will make her lazy, my concern is she is doing more damage than good by scooting. She is going to start underwater treadmill next Monday. Any suggestions?

Dodgerslist- Disc Disease - IVDD Education & Support
Stephanie, sometimes a wheelchair will aid in helping them walk again. Does she have deep pain. Is she still on all those meds? Is she still in pain?

Stephanine
She lost deep pain within 24 hours and yes those are her current medications. As of last Friday in Acupuncture she was able to hold an assisted sit, wag her tail and she is starting to kick. I think some things she can feel. I’m just worried she is going to do more harm trying to play then she would do in a wheelchair. I do not believe it would make her lazy. She was very active, and still tries to be, she will be 5 on Monday.

Dodgerslist- Disc Disease - IVDD Education & Support
That's a long time to be on those meds. Is there still pain or what reason did the vet give you for keeping her on them.

Stephanine
don’t think she is in pain but when I take her in they tell me she is in pain. It’s like they don’t trust my judgement. I have not been give a plan as to how long she will stay on any of the medications. Every time I ask something they basically say it is a wait and see game with these dogs.

Dodgerslist- Disc Disease - If she's in pain I'm surprised they are starting treadmill. Also, if she's in pain, that generally means the disc is not healed. Is this a specialist or general vet?

Stephanine Madden
it is a rehabilitation therapist. Our❗️⚠️vet sent us there basically day one since we had no deep pain.

Dodgerslist- Disc Disease - IVDD Education & Support Thurs Oct 20 5pm
How do they know if she has pain when she is on all those pain meds? Those are high powered drugs, Just my opinion, but from what you've said, I would be getting a second opinion preferably from a specialist if possible. You don't want her on them any longer then is necessary. Can you join us on our forum

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2022 18:10:20 GMT -7 by PaulaM

PaulaM
Moderator.

Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA

Posts: 19,928

Stephanine's Bailey 6/28 conservative; GRAD 8/23? Oct 20, 2022 20:20:09 GMT -7

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Post by PaulaM on Oct 20, 2022 20:20:09 GMT -7

Stephanine, welcome to the Forum. I've read thru your information with a fine tooth comb. If the disc episode happened on June 28, 2022, then Baily's disc would have been healed in 8 weeks by August 23 and she would be slowly introduced back to family life, a wheelchair if she can't walk, etc. And she would NOT be taking that list of meds you provided. So you can see why the confusion regarding dates and some of your answers. Seems as though there are some dates and events that missed being presented? ?

Could you double check the dates you gave and help us understand Bailey situation? Also if you have an area of concern to tell us about it so we can be sure to comment on it.

QUESTIONS
1. What are the current pain signs you see. It looks like you marked only "tight tense tummy" is that correct? Or are there other pain signs you observe?

2. What is the name of the herbal supplement you give 1x/day?

3. At the end of a clavamox course, does the vet do a culture to verify all the bad bacteria have been killed? And to know the name of the bad bacteria to be sure the correct antibiotic is a match? What is the name of the bad bacteria causing the UTI?

4. Why has there been no date to stop Previcox since Rxing it on June 28?

5. Famotidine- How many mgs do you give 2x/day?

6. Do you work in a medical associated field?

7. What services does the (DVM veterinarian?) Rehab therapist provide Bailey?

8. What at-home PT do you do for Bailey's back legs, if they are the ones affected? Any of those demoed in video below?

Appropriate physical therapy

can help maintain those muscles

with lost nerve connection

and keep the joints flexible

while nerve cells regenerate.

Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog:

9. What is the last time Bailey has been seen by a vet for this 6/28 disc episode?

10. Do you see Bailey ever attempt to use her back legs at all...such as to try to reposition her body when lying down? Maybe attempt to move up into a stand?

Stephanine, I'll be watching for your next post and your answers so we can zero in on where to assist you.

Hi there Guests❗️ REGISTERING would help us to help you and your dog best: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread

PaulaM
Moderator.

Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA

Posts: 19,928

Stephanine's Bailey 6/28 conservative; GRAD 8/23? Oct 21, 2022 18:00:24 GMT -7

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Post by PaulaM on Oct 21, 2022 18:00:24 GMT -7

Stephanine, with the new information just found over on the Dodgerslist FB page, it sheds an ENTIRELY different light on the comment that needs to be made.

#1 Travesty your vet did not allow 8 weeks of STRICT REST to take place to heal the disc on 6/28/2022!
VERY FORTUNATELY, nevertheless, it appears "maybe" Bailey "may have" self healed her nerves enough to bring back a happy tail wag. Please confirm if the wag happens when you specifically do some happy talk to her or when she sees you coming home or bringing a yummy treat. A head level involvement (seeing or hearing) with a wag confirms proof positive the spinal cord healed enough to allow a message to pass from the brain to the tail.
Just kicking back legs without head level involvement can be reflexes.

TYPICAL NERVE HEALING ORDER:

1. __ Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function.
2. ? Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal is something YOU can correctly identify
3. __ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. __ Leg Movement to reposition when lying down, and then
__ ability to move up into a stand position, and then
__ wobbly walking.
5.__ Being able to walk with more steadiness and
properly place the paw.
6. __ Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/

Knuckling:
thumb.ibb.co/k3dqRS/Knuckling.jpg

#2 MAJOR Travesty to have a dog on non-stop meds without stopping to test if they are even needed for over 16 weeks now!
It is now time to STOP Previcox, all pain meds, and the herbal. Your job is to monitor for any pain if it should surface. Pain at this point in time could mean some scar tissue, or some disc material is still aggravating the nerves. If that were to be the case then the use of meds would be just like for people, use 'em so that life can be enjoyed pain free.
At this point in time it is WAY, way past the time it takes to heal a disc in a matter of 8 weeks. The disc has healed despite no crate rest.

#3 With the STOP of all meds & herbals AND you see she is not in discomfort, you may well be able to have Bailey take advantage of under water treadmill on Monday 10/24 to see if she has ability to move her legs with water buoyancy that she can't yet do against gravity on the ground.
IF she can actually move her legs with underwater treadmill, then it may be a better expenditure of money to buy more treadmill time.

The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.

Scroll up to previous post showing the at-home PT video you should be doing for Bailey's legs every day to keep them limber and joints flexing. Have you been doing those exercises since 6/28?

If she shows no signs of even some degree of weak leg movement, then you will have to decide if your budget can handle a wheelchair to give Bailey back her life of running and feeling independence while waiting on more nerve function to self heal.
Cart features needed for an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/06/wheelchairs/

#4 Until Bailey can walk pretty well, consider how to protect her when she scoots around your home:
You will want to consider how you will prevent rug burns from scooting and protecting bacteria from entering the bladder. Females have a very short path into the bladder and the use of a garment will protect against urinary tract infection (UTI). Here are some sew and no-sew options:
dodgerslist.com/2020/06/13/garment-skin-uti-protection/

#5 Seek an IVDD knowledgeable vet to be on Bailey'a health care team.
Strategies to find an IVDD DVM vet: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/10/find-ivdd-vet/

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2022 18:36:32 GMT -7 by PaulaM

Hi there Guests❗️ REGISTERING would help us to help you and your dog best: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread

Disclaimer:
This information is presented for educational purposes and as a resource for the IVD dog community. The coordinators are not veterinarians or health care professionals. Nothing herein should be interpreted as medical advice and all should contact their pet care professionals for advice. The coordinators are not responsible for the substance and content contained herein and do not advocate any particular product, item or position contained herein.

✔︎ HELP your dog FASTEST. Click link below to answer questions about your dog

Stephanine's Bailey 6/28 conservative; GRAD 8/23?

Post by Stephanine & Bailey on Oct 20, 2022 16:34:34 GMT -7

Post by PaulaM on Oct 20, 2022 20:20:09 GMT -7

Post by PaulaM on Oct 21, 2022 18:00:24 GMT -7