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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 19, 2022 4:05:00 GMT -7
please do not edit this post. Provide corrections or additional information in new post. thanks!
[Orig subject line: Sammie went down last night [10/17?], it is 3:30 am]
Sammie is a 12 year old dachshund. He is about 16 pounds. Yesterday just before dinner the cat fell off the counter and my blind rescue dog thought it was him that was trying to doing something (as they do not get along). So she tried to jump on him, however she really didn’t make contact with him. She just started air snapping at him which [10/17?] caused him to twist and duck, and that is what did it. He lost use of one back leg. Everything else is fine.
Having been through this with another dog about 15 years ago I immediately reacted. I went in my bedroom and got a cage and put him in it. He was screaming in pain when I went to the room and got it. He has had a sore back for several years, he takes gabapentin and it has helped him a great deal. I fed him in the cage and called my vet. He can not put any weight on that back foot and is resistant to walk or move much.
They told me to take him to the emergency vet and I told them it was cost prohibitive. So we got an appointment for him at 8 am today [10/19]. ( this happened about 5 pm). Since the event, he has been out of his cage twice for about 1 minute outside to relieve himself. He pooped ( actually it was gas and some diarrhea with a spot of blood). He ate about a 1/4 of his dinner and took a couple treats after my husband came home around 8 pm. He has not urinated or drank water since this happened (we put him in front of the water briefly when we took him out). I forgot what meds to give him so I gave him his gabapentin on time as usual ( he takes 100 mg daily) and gave him two medications he is prescribed for back issues PRN. I gave him 1 Galliprant ( which I believe is an NSAID) and half of his muscle relaxer ( I don’t want to get up right now to check the name because it upsets the other dogs, which will disturbed him.)
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 12 y.o.
date of disc episode 10/18
Galliprant as of 10/18:
gabapentin 100mgs 1x/day
tramadol to 25 mg 2x/day
name of muscle relaxer ?mg ?x/day
Sammie needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of any anti-inflammatory! ]
He seemed to be much better after all that and of course tired. When his dad got home he got excited and started crying in pain again. He finally settled down and just before bed. I gave him 0.5 mg CBD oil to help him sleep. Besides a daily gabapentin he takes no other medication except a liver pill ( more like a vitamin) and monthly heart worm medication. He also has no other medical problems except in the last couple years he has had some increased liver values. He is in the cage on our bed now and I am so worried I can not sleep.
When I called the vet I was told not to give him anything except his normal dose of gabapentin, I am a human nurse and my husband is a nurse practitioner.
There is no way I am going to allow this animal to sit here and cry in pain.
Tomorrow I plan to get him X-rays so we can get him more medication and a referral to a local vet neurologist. I don’t think our vet is very informed about IVDD. We will call the local neurologist after the visit and get an appointment ASAP ( I believe the neurologist is only in town 2 days a week because he comes here from a bigger city). I know we will have to go conservative this time since the surgery will be much more then we can afford right now). I have cancer and am not working and my husband just graduated with his doctorate of nursing degree and we have poured a lot of money in to that.
I am worried sick and just need cheerleading and reinforcement here. Thank you in advance for anything you can do.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 19, 2022 10:34:59 GMT -7
Candace, you did the correct thing to immediately crate to prevent a suspicion of a disc episode from further doing damage to the spinal cord. XRAYs are cautiously used when and IF there is a high suspicion this is not a disc episode but another disease that can mimic IVDD (tumor, verterbral infection, etc. Xrays can't prove a disc episode as they show only hard tissue not discs and not spinal cord. Xrays are use only when there is a very good reason to use and you need to be informed of that reason. The reason to not give long lasting meds like Galliprant is that it takes 5-7 days to leave the body. Pain meds like gabapentin last for 8 hrs so, they can be timed to be out of the body by appt time so the vet has the best change to give a correct diagnosis. MONITORING NEURO DAMAGE When you can be specific as to where Sammie is with back (left or right) limb.
Let us know if the vet thinks the disc is in the neck or the backAs damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise orderly deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example. 1. √10/18 Pain of initial disc tear 2. __ Wobbly walking ___ legs cross 3. ____Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. ____Paws knuckle under. Dog is slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all 5. ___ Weak/little leg movement, ___ can't move up into a stand 6. ___ Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. ____ Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. ____ Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation (DPS), the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after conservative or surgery treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. We'll be watching for your update to learn more about Sammy and the meds prescribed. Don't forget the Pepcid AC (famotidine for the duration of any anti-inflammatory drug and what that is: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/ |
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 20, 2022 22:40:46 GMT -7
Hi,
Thanks so much for your reply. I will try to answer everything you asked. Sorry it took me a little while to respond, but he is taking up a lot of my time right now. Unfortunately, the vet wanted x-rays and we were so upset that we went along without asking any questions. Also, Galliprant was all we had at the time and I wanted to give him something because he was in so much pain. I now know better.
It is Sammie’s left back limb. The vet thinks the disc is in his back.
[regarding Neuro function monitoring:]
1. October 18, 2022. [Pain of initial disc tear]
2. Walking: He immediately lost the ability to walk in his back left leg. He was wobbly walking with his other back leg immediately after it happened.
3. Nails/toes scuffing floor: On left back leg immediately, currently on right leg.
4. Knuckling: Immediately on back left leg, not currently happening on right.
5. Left leg has no movement and right is weak. He is able to move up to stand.
6. Left back leg does not work at all. Right back leg works a little.
7. Bladder control: Does not attempt to pee. We have found his cage wet twice since this happened. We have not seen him attempt to urinate otherwise.
8. We have not seen him wag his tail since the incident.
9. DPS: He saw the [primary DVM vet] vet 8:00 am the next morning after the incident happened at 5pm the previous day. The vet reported that he still has deep pain sensation in both his back legs. Surgery at this time is cost prohibitive.
The [primary vet] doctor prescribed Galliprant 20 mg daily and methacarbanol 250 mg twice a day.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 12 y.o.
date of disc episode 10/18
Galliprant as of 10/18 DVM: 20mgs 1x/day for ? days, then a test STOP for _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 100mgs 1x/day
tramadol to 25 mg 2x/day
✙methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day
Sammie needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of Galliprant ]
We know this is not an ideal medication regiment but we have an appointment with a dog neurologist on [10/24] Monday. I hope the neurologist will be more cooperative and understanding than our primary vet was.
Thank you for all the help and information that you can give us.
Cathy, Leon and Sammie
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 21, 2022 10:34:56 GMT -7
Cathy, sorry we got your name incorrect on Sammie's thread. Fixed! Let us know how the adjustments in meds by your DVM are doing to control pain fully or not fully. If not fully round the clock dose to dose, then the pain meds ( gabapentin 100gs 1x/day and methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day) are still not right for Sammie. Call the vet and advocate for pain meds that are effective for 8 hrs be dosed: --- methocarbamol 3x/day. May allow dose to be 125mgs 3x/day. Make note if Sammies muscle are overly relaxed and hard to control his right back legs and front legs too. --- gabapentin to be Rx'd for promptly every 8 hrs (3x/day) --- What is the stumbling block to getting Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board asap today? What health issues does Sammie have?? The reason for a specialist consult is when a local DVM vet is not comfortable in using pain medications that specialist use every day to control pain. Hopefully your vet will consult with colleagues if h4 is too cautious in use of pain meds. This avoids a risky to the healing disc of a transport into a clinic, another hands on exam. The single most important care is the STRICT rest at home safely inside of the recovery suite. Pain not in control is an urgent matter to get addressed on 10/4 (insane that a vet would not attempt to get pain in control to avoid the need for a 2nd opinion). IF it is a must, then with urgent vet visits, secure the crate in your car. Transport carefully using a crate padded out with rolled up towels on either side of the dog to prevent movement or jarring the spine when braking or turning corners. Fingers crossed that hopefully the med adjustments will work to avoid a 10/24 car transport. Do let us know. |
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 23, 2022 22:39:33 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thank you so much for your quick response. Sammie’s medication is not being controlled fully. I’ve given up on my primary vet and hope the appointment with the neurologist tomorrow at 1 pm will turn out much better.
We will discuss the eight hour dosing with the neurologist. Right now his muscles are pretty rigid most of the time and when we put him down he doesn’t attempt to move much. It still seems his left hind leg isn’t being used.
I’m sorry I forgot to mention that we are giving him the ✙Pepcid ac.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 12 y.o.
date of disc episode 10/18
Galliprant as of 10/18:
gabapentin 100mgs 1x/day
methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day
tramadol to 25 mg 2x/day
✙Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mg 2x/day ]
Sammie has mildly elevated liver enzymes and the back issues but no other medical issues. We have been giving Pepcid incorrectly but will adjust to your recommendations. Unfortunately our vet wants a neurologist to recommend a treatment protocol for her to follow through with.
We are very concerned with Sammie because he doesn’t want to eat more than a quarter cup of food a day. He does drink water. He urinates and defecates once a day. The only thing I’ve been able to get him to eat is one hamburger Patty a day. I know he is still in a lot of pain.
Thank you Cathy and Leon
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 24, 2022 8:26:37 GMT -7
Cathy, clearly your vet is not at all comfortable with her IVDD knowledge and of the meds use thus the referral.
Good to hear he is at least eating hamburger. If you simmer it in some water you can remove the fat disc at the top when it cools. Fat/oils can cause loose stools (Difficult then to tell if serious GI problem with Galliprant vs. temporary food issue). Maybe he would eat some few kibbles soaked in broth with crumbled burger on top? During the day he can also drink the nutritious meat broth.
Hope to hear some good news for Sammie after today's afternoon neuro appt and his thoughts. Let us know if adjustment of pain meds causes pain to be in control round the clock.
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 24, 2022 16:12:30 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
The neurologist basically said Sammie needs surgery and without it his quality of life would always be poor. He also was not receptive to the medication adjustments that I asked for. In a nice way he told me, if I wanted to learn how to prescribe medication for dogs that I should go to vet school.
NOTE owener correction:we stayed on the old meds until we started the new [meds] ones today 10/28.
He [neuro] took Sammie off of NSAIDS (Galliprant) and muscle relaxer (methocarbamol) altogether. He increased the ▲gabapentin to 100 mg three x a day! He increased the ▲tramadol to 25 mg three times a day and he started him on ✙Valium 5 mg three times a day. He kept him on the Pepcid and put him on a ✙prednisone taper (Yikes)!
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 12 y.o.
date of disc episode 10/18
Galliprant as of 10/18 STOPPED 10/27
Prednisone as 10/28: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, then a test taper for: _pain / _neuro
gabapentin 100mgs 1x/day
methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day
tramadol to 25 mg 2x/day
✙Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mg 2x/day ]
I don’t know what to do. I live in the Southern California area (Palm Springs). There must be vets that are supportive and knowledgeable of dodgers list. Do you know of any referrals? We can drive several hours. The neurologist wants me to follow up in two weeks. My biggest worry is his eating.
I’ve been putting chicken broth on his food. It makes him want it even less. He doesn’t like it at all. I was thinking of trying chicken and rice. What do you think?
Thanks so much.
Cathy, Leon and Sammie
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 24, 2022 16:36:14 GMT -7
Cathy, look forward to the details of pred (mgs dose, x/day and for how many days before next reduction.With 3 pain meds 3x/day each addressing a different source of pain now on board, l et us know if within the hour you see pain being better controlled or best fully controlled. Valium (muscle contraction pain) traMADol (a general analgesic). Is this a new addition? Have not seen you mention it before gabapentin (nerve pain) Galliprant is a NSAID The usual with a switch to the most powerful of the anti-inflammatory classes, the steroid class would be a 5-7 day washout from a NSAID before beginning the steroid prednisone. However, when a vet deems it an emergency of pain, etc, then double protection of the GI tract (both Pepcid AC + sucralfate (an Rx item)) protects against double jeopardy of having both the NSAID and the steroid in the body at the same time. It can take 5-7 days for the Galliprant to be removed by the body. Galliprant pkg insert: www.elancolabels.com/us/galliprant-with-tear-off : "Comcomitant use of GALLIPRANT with other ,anti drug, such as COX-inhibiting NSAIDS or corticosteroids, should be avoided. Consider appropriate washout items when switching from one anti-inflammatory to another or when switching from corticosteroids or COX-inhibitiing NSAIDS to GALLIPRNAT use. Even though it's bland, it usually exits undigested. Also is very fermentable/gassiness. Simmer up a hamburger patty. When cool, remove the fat disc at the top. Will he go for it over a few kibbles soaked in the beef broth? Check the Dodgerslist member's directory for comments in locating a vet near you: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendationsIDEAS for FINDING A VET: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/10/find-ivdd-vet/%E2%80%8B |
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 26, 2022 21:07:56 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thank you for your informative response again. We haven’t picked up the new meds yet because they are pricey.
We will pick them up as soon as we have the money together.
I don’t know the prednisone taper since we haven’t picked it up yet.
Tramadol isn’t new. We have been giving it since the beginning. I thought I mentioned it. He told us to give just the prednisone and stop the Galliprant for good. I asked about the carafate but he said it isn’t necessary. He didn’t say anything about the washout of the NSAIDS. Sammie doesn’t like kibbles and chicken broth. We tried it a couple of times.
He has started eating a dog/treat refrigerated food called Fresh Pet Dog Nation Chicken Recipe plus about half cup of his regular food. He also started eating his treats as well.
Thank you for the reference for the vet. It will help us find a more dodger’s list friendly vet.
One last question. My dog is a 16 lb dachshund. What size cage do you recommend for him during the IVDD episode?
Thank you again for your assistance.
Cathy, Leon and Sammie
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 27, 2022 10:28:43 GMT -7
Cathy you report a good thing... back to eating well!!
Meds play an important roll in effecting many things. Naturally we want to know why eating has improved and what may have effected that. Would you fill us in:
-- Did Galliprant stop on 10/24 in light of not yet being able to obtain prednisone?
-- Are all 3 pain meds still on board?:
gabapentin generic 100mgs 3x/day
traMADol generic 25mgs 3x/day
Valium® brand name (diazepam generic) 5mgs 3x/day
-- Is all pain fully in control round the clock, right up to the next pain med doses since 10/24?
-- What is Sammie's current type of recovery suite in use?
-- Is the vet Rxing prednisone (generic) and any other meds aware of your financial situation that is keeping Sammie from meds he may need? Have you shopped your local pharmacies for the generic options? There are pricing differences pharmacy to pharmacies, making it worthwhile to shop price. Then seeing if the vet (which? Neuro vet?, local DVM vet?) will help you out by writing an Rx for you to take into the pharmacy.
Did you know about the Costco pharmacy?
Size of recovery suite
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 28, 2022 21:52:49 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thanks again for the reply. I don’t remember saying he was back to eating last time. But either way, since the new medication regime started he IS back to eating well. Galliprant stopped 10/27, the day before we [10/28] started prednisone. As of today the three meds, gabapentin 3 times a day, tramadel 3 times a day and Valium 3 times a day are all on board.
It seems like today is the first day [10/28] that the pain meds are in control around the clock. You said 10/24, but we stayed on the old meds until we started the new [meds] ones today 10/28.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs 12 y.o.
date of disc episode 10/18
Galliprant as of 10/18 for 11 days; STOPPED 10/27 - no washout, no double GI protection!
Prednisone as of 10/28: 5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then FRI 11/4 test taper for: _pain / _neuro
gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day
tramadol to 25 mg 3x/day
✙Valium (muscle relaxer) 5 mg 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mg 2x/day ]
Sammie stays in a wire cage large enough to turn around and it stays on our bed. He has lived with us on our bed since he was eight weeks old and now he is now twelve. Any attempt at leaving him on the floor even next to our bed results in him screaming and crying hours on end, he doesn’t give up. Sammie lays on a nice blanket and is calm and still as long as we are nearby.
It really is not a financial situation that was keeping us from getting Sammie’s meds, but timing. Both vets called the prescriptions into Walmart. I think Walmart and Costco have similar prices.
I think we are going to buy a little bigger cage. Things seem to be looking up now.
Thanks,
Sammie, Cathy and Leon
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 29, 2022 12:07:03 GMT -7
Cathy, it is good to hear that the addition of valium (muscle relaxer) and the more powerful of the two anti-inflammatory classes, the steroid Prednisone is aiding in providing full comfort. I imagine Walmart may have good pricing on meds, too. As you may have noticed we read each of your words with a fine tooth comb searching to learn all the details about Sammie. Without your details, there is a limiting factor to either catching issues or commenting appropriately or a delay of clarifying things. Not good for Sammie.With your help, please provide the details about his medications. -- PREDNISONE as of 10/28: • how many mgs is ea dose? • how many times/day? • For how many days til a prednisone taper starts? • The pred taper is for YOU at home to monitor for pain. An ER visit is very expensive, a "Plan B" is free!
RULE OF THUMB for a Pred taper:
Pain= another course of PRED + all pain meds
GI protector back on board.
No Pain= go to pred's TAPER conclusion...
finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal. Are you aware of the need to stop blindfolding-pain meds at the start of the pred taper? Tell us what your vet has directed for the pain meds on the date of the pred taper and what you two have worked out together should pain surface.
Good information to have under your belt when necessary to advocate for Sammie (plan B, and more): dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/
RECOVERY SUITE
For remainder of the 8 weeks to heal the disc, the suite area does need to remain only large enough to turn around in and when lying down to fully stretch out the legs. And tall enough to stand on all four legs. If your current wire recovery suite meets those requirements, then if you need a 2nd suite, you might want to consider an ex-pen. Then you'd have a recovery suite for bedtime and one in the family area during the day.
Ex-pen's flexibly is very handy for these 8 weeks and even just as handy after graduation day. The panels could then be repurposed to a few panels here and there to block of different areas of the home or furniture.
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Oct 30, 2022 22:33:43 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
It’s nice to hear from you again. What’s below should show Sammie’s current medication regimen. The prednisone is 5 mg given two times a day for seven days, one time a day for seven days and then 1/2 a tablet once a day until it is gone. The prednisone taper started the first day we gave prednisone.
Since starting the prednisone it is hard to keep Sammie still. It is like he is back to his old self. However we understand the importance of eight weeks of strict cage rest.
We are both healthcare workers and very familiar with prednisone. We will read the articles mentioned in your response. We have not discussed much in the future about Sammie with the vet. We have only focused on getting his pain under control. However, we have an appointment with the neurologist next week [?]
Thanks again for all your advice. Sammie is doing 100% better. We are very happy with his recovery.
Sammie, Cathy and Leon
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 31, 2022 9:51:05 GMT -7
Cathy, thank you for the important information of how many days will an anti-inflammatory level course of prednisone be given (Ans: a 7-day course of prednisone).
What is the date of the neuro appt "next week"? What kind of appt is it to be (in person with a vehicle transport, via phone or an at-home Skype video-type appt.]
The future is right around the corner in 4 days on Friday 11/4:
Understanding prednisone for a disc episode
Your knowledge is helpful in discussing things and even speaking up for Sammie if and when needed.
-- As you know steroids need to have an ending taper schedule for the purpose of signaling the adrenals to again make their own steroid hormone cortisol.
-- The important part of prednisone for a disc episode is ONLY the number of days on the anti-inflammatory level dose of prednisone. Taper day doses are too low to work on the swelling around the cord.
16lbs Sammie X 0.3mg pred = 4.8mgs prednisone 2x/day
Typically the dose would be round up to 5mgs 2x/day -- To be clear: Sammie started the 7-day course at anti-inflammatory dose (prednisone 5mgs 2x/day) on 10/28. The pred taper begins on Fri Nov 4th.
Prednisone taper for a disc episode.
-- Fri 11/4 is the day the taper starts. It is the time for YOU at home to monitor for new or increased pain.
The prednisone taper is in a way a opportunity/a test to find out if another anti-inflammatory course of pred is needed or can the prednisone taper continue to conclusion?
-- The date the taper start is also the time for YOU at home to monitor for any new or increased diminishment of neuro functions from Sammie's baseline of before the taper.
MONITORING NEURO FUNCTIONS
As damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example.
Let us know if your 10/24 report is the same today (10/31)
Baseline as of 10/24 you have reported still observing:
1. Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing swelling (as of 10/28 pain now fully masked by pain meds)
2. √ Left rear Wobbly walking
3. √ Left rear Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. √ Left rear paw knuckles under. No Right rear knuckling
5. √ Right rear isWeak/little leg movement,
can't move up into a stand
6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. Tail wagging with joy is lost
9. Deep pain sensation (DPS) is the last neuro function to be lost. DPS is a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Nerves can heal including DPS if it had been lost! Nerve function usually returns in the reverse order of the loss.
Things to consider on Friday, Nov 4 taper start:
1. if you would see any hint of pain nearing next dose of pain meds (gabapentin, traMADol, and Valium®) clearly it would not be time to start a pred taper on Friday. You would instead call your vet and report pain existing. Expect another course of prednisone to be Rx'd over the phone. A vet simply has to make a guess how long a pred course should be. Typical is a 7-day course or for some cases it might be a 14-day course, THEN followed by a required tapering schedule.
2. Make sure you have that Plan B worked out!
A. Pain meds on board block you from correctly monitoring existence of painful inflammation. Are the three blindfolding pain meds to be stopped on 11/4? What are your vet's comments?
B. What if pain surfaces during the night or when the vet is not open? Cathy what is your Plan B you have worked out with the vet? Steroids can't be suddenly stopped like a NSAID. Steroids require the end of a course to be tapered for health reasons.
3. Did not see the date of Neuro appt for us to be able to comment. Here are thoughts you might find useful.
• If the appoint is prior to 11/4, the vet will not have any information to work with.... then what is the use of the appt on that date? He is still on pain meds that work, they blindfold monitoring for pain.
• With Sammie feeling as good as he is, maybe the swelling is all gone? And he is going in a good direction.You can not know for sure until all pain meds have stopped at the pred taper start (11/4).
• Transporting a dog should be for the most of urgent health issues. Otherwise vets who know IVDD will take a phone update, adjust meds over the phone. They understand the risk of a car transport vs. the safety of at home STRICT rest for the early healing disc.
• Nerve function repair often must be thought of in terms of months rather than days/weeks. The body can heal with time. Sammie has great potential for nerve healing. It is the STRICT rest of limited movement that prevents an early healing disc from disrupting the scar tissue formation.
Cathy, protect Sammie's early healing disc as you have been doing with STRICT rest, and I believe you will be very happy on graduation day. Mark your calendar for Dec 12th.
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Nov 1, 2022 22:14:27 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thanks again for your response. The next neurologist appointment is November 14th in person at the veterinarian office.
[baseline 11/1]:
1. Pain is still fully masked by pain medication.
2. Left rear paw wobbling is barely noticeable.
3. Left rear nails/toes NOT scuffling floor.
4. Neither left nor right paw knuckles under.
5, Right rear is almost normal with leg movement.
Sammie can move up to stand.
6. Legs are working almost normally now.
7. Sammie pees like normal now.
8. Tail wags fine but less coordinated.
9. On last exam, DPS was fine.
There is no talk of stopping any pain medication at this point. The next communication with the vet will be on the 14th unless more problems develop. We are okay on plan B. We foster a lot of dogs and keep a robust pharmacy on hand.
I am sorry. I don’t know what to say but the vet wants to see him in person on November 14th. Thank you so much for all the information that you provided.
Sammie, Cathy and Leon
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 2, 2022 11:11:12 GMT -7
Cathy, how wonderful to hear the new neuro baseline is showing excellent improvement in left leg nerve healing since Oct 24!! • right rear limb is almost normal now!!! -- by 11/14 appt the pred taper will be pretty much over ending with only a few days of every other day doses left. -- on 11/14 pain meds will still be on board, preventing an accurate assessment for pain. -- Fingers crossed Sammie's still early healing disc will not suffer a disheartening set back to square one due to excessive movement. Take serious precautions to protect Sammie's disc during travel. Use rolled up blankets or towels snugg around his body to prevent shifting when the car corners or comes to a full stop. |
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Post by Cathy & Sammie on Nov 21, 2022 23:07:52 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
We want to thank you again for all the support you have given Sammie. Sammie is still doing well since the 2nd appointment with the neurologist. We are cutting back his meds to twice a day. He seems a little more subdued in his cage, although his spirits are good.
A big day will be November 28th when the medications stops (per the neurologist). What are you thoughts about physical therapy after all this?
Thanks again,
Catherine, Leon and Sammie
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 22, 2022 12:01:14 GMT -7
What meds are you currently giving along with dose in mgs and the frequency?
It takes the disc 8 weeks to form good secure scar tissue. Thus the date of graduation from very strict rest (limited movement of the back) is Dec 12. Hope you will continue to give Sammie every chance possible to have a good graduation day instead of a possibly serious setback to square one if crate rest would be cut short.
Once we know your list of current med details and what meds would be fully stopped on Nov 28, then we would be in position to comment intelligently.
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