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Post by barry noonan on Sept 10, 2022 14:44:53 GMT -7
[Original subject line:dougie the french bulldog ]   i.postimg.cc/gcShMFm9/gradgreen100.jpghi i am the owner of dougie last year he sufferd from ivdd we took him to an emergency vet were thay opperated on him with a large exspese to us the after support was so bad the vet gave us no imformation on how to help.with his recovery its now been over a year and he still not walking we do get glimors of hope when somtimes he takes a few steps he currently has hydro once a week . just want to know if thwre is any advice out there |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 10, 2022 16:42:36 GMT -7
Barry welcome to the Forum! We are glad you are here. With a few dates and some particulars we will be better able to specifically comment about Dougie. Date of past surgery?
Did surgeon say on discharge date say that Dougie had deep pain sensation (DPS)CURRENTLY: --Can Dougie joyfully wriggle his butt/ tailstump specifically if you do some happy talk to him?-- Do you manually express Dougie's bladder.-- Does Dougie leak on you when lifted and you find urine leaks in his bedding-- Does Dougie have bladder control. That is can he smell an old pee spot in the grass and then make the decision to release urine there?-- What date did you observe Double able to take some footsteps on his own?-- Can he raise his body up into a stand position all by himself?-- Is he currently on any medications? Name, dose in mgs and how often given?-- Does he have a wheelchair? What date bought?-- What does Dougie do around the house or outdoors to have fun?-- How does Dougie move around the house... scoot with legs in front or like seal legs behind his body?Barry, it would help us an open up all the features of the Forum to you by registering.
▼See below link on registering info if you need it.▼ |
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Post by Barry & Dougie on Sept 13, 2022 15:05:22 GMT -7
So, Dougie had surgery to remove a ruptured disc on 10th September 2021. The night before he had lost the use of his back legs and we couldn't get an MRI scan until the morning of 10th Sept which revealed a slipped and ruptured disc which was removed later that day. upon discharge 10 days later he had no DPS. When we took him back for a check up approx 4 weeks later they suspected he had some DPS returning in one of legs as he reacted when they pinched hard. Initially we were having to express Doug's bladder as he had no control whatsoever but this [bladder control] gradually came back after a couple of months and he now pees on his own whilst out on walks when he smells other dogs. He does still leak urine when he's excited or if there's too long between his walks or first thing in the morning.
Dougie does pull his rear end up a lot of the time when he is making his way around the house but he doesn't take steps. He has taken the odd few steps if he gets excited but the physio told us that this was called spinal walking and he is not consciously controlling his legs.
He does wiggle his bum and he has lots of sensation around his back end and back legs. He usually drags his back legs behind him when getting around the house, sometimes crossed.
Dougie can get himself into a standing position to eat his food which we have in a raised bowl. He doesn't always place his feet correctly and seems to be stronger on one side and we often have to correct his stance to make him more comfortable whilst eating.
Dougie is not currently on any medication. He was on Diazepam and Gabapentin immediately after his operation but has not required any further meds for approx the last 10 months.
Dougie is still quite a playful happy dog and gets excited when family members come home or the wider family visit. He still tries to jump up and will play fight, dribble footballs and play with the hose and sprinklers. He has a set of wheels (Walkin Wheels) which he has had since May 2022 and he has taken well to them. He goes to hydrotherapy once a week where he does mostly treadmill sessions and a pool session a least once a month. He is definitely getting stronger and kicks his legs in the pool without any assistance.
Hope this gives you a good overview however, please do let me know if you need any further info.
Thanks so much for your time!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 13, 2022 15:33:58 GMT -7
Barry, sorry for the mess up in directing you to Dougie's thread on the Graduate board. My understanding from neuro surgeons is that spinal walking is something that dogs with NO DEEP PAIN SENSATION can learn to do. You can read more about spinal walking here. -- dodgerslist.com/2020/08/14/prognosis-for-walking/ -- dodgerslist.com/2021/09/27/spinal-walking/So the first neuro functions which returns is deep pain sensation (DPS) and that allows then other neuro functions to self repair. The classic order of nerve healing: 1. 10/2021 Deep Pain Sensation post op: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for other nerve functions to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function.2. __ Tail or bum wriggling with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. __ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. ___ Leg Movement to reposition his body, scratch an ear, and then ___ ability to move up into a standing position, and then ____ wobbly walking. 5. ____ Being able to walk with more steadiness and ____ properly place the paw without the knuckling under. 6. ____ Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/Knuckling: thumb.ibb.co/k3dqRS/Knuckling.jpgIf you would confirm the specific details around these nerve functions, it would help us to know where Dougie is --- Bladder control: have you observed he sniffs an old pee spot and THEN releases urine there?
--- Does he do a tail stump/butt wriggle SPECIFICALLY when you do happy talk to him or he see you brining a treat?
-- Have you seen him correct a knuckled under paw? Even if the correction is done slowly?
-- Describe the leg movement you observe when he is in the underwater treadmill. Do they leg make any attempt to move, walk? Water treadmill is the practice of learning to walk. Swimming is great exercise, but it is the practice of learning to swim. Warms my heart to hear Dougie pays no attention to neuro damage and is living and loving life til or if more nerve takes place. Same as my dog did. |
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Post by Barry & Dougie on Sept 15, 2022 13:33:44 GMT -7
Thanks for the info Paula. This is so helpful and really gives us hope. To answer your questions:-
- bladder control - Dougie definitely does release urine on areas where he can smell an old pee spot
- butt wiggle - he definitely does this too when he is excited to see us
- we have seen him correct a knuckled paw. He doesn't always do this but on many occasions he will slowly pull his leg forward or reposition his body back to re-place his paw
- in the treadmill he does move his legs on his own. His placement isn't always on point and as a result his legs sometimes become tangled.
Would you recommend laser therapy?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Sept 15, 2022 14:06:32 GMT -7
Dougie is progressing through the typical steps of healing. He can wiggle his little butt in joy, and he can pull himself into a stand. He is moving forward. I know that it seems like a long, long time since the surgery, but he is making slow progress.
What I found most helpful after my dog's surgery was the underwater treadmill. He started out completely paralyzed in the back end. He could not stand, let alone walk. Only the buoyancy of the water held him up. The treadmill along with the therapist enabled him to practice walking to the extent he could. He did eventually start to walk on his own.
I think Dougie may be better served by having additional treadmill sessions instead of laser.
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