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Post by Jo & Seymour on Jul 27, 2022 8:47:16 GMT -7
[Original subject line:Seymour's conservative treatment, no neuro symptoms ]
Hi, our Seymour initially started with reluctance to walk and intermittently sitting on walks, but on May 8 he yelped when being towel dried after a bath. He had an X-ray on May 10 and was put on strict cage rest, gabapentin and meloxicam until his referral appointment with a specialist on May 31. IVDD was confirmed by the MRI (mildly compressive, left ventrolateral intervertebral disc extrusion at L2-L3 and multifocal intervertebral disc degeneration). No neurological symptoms were present and Seymour responded positively to conservative management and rest, so we were advised to continue the strict crate rest and analgesia for at least 4-6 weeks prior to re-introduction of slow, controlled exercise. Seymour is currently happy, showing no signs of pain or discomfort, and enjoying 5-10 minutes of controlled walking a day. However, I worry that he will start showing reluctance to walk again once we increase his exercise back to a normal amount.
Our questions are:
- How do we know whether the disk has healed properly? Is there any way to know? Despite our best efforts, Seymour has managed to get a few jumps in over the past months (he LOVES jumping and will seize ANY opportunity). We were very strict about the crate rest for the first 8 weeks, but Seymour simply won't poo without taking some time to sniff around and find a spot, so he was having some minutes of very slow controlled walking even during the strict crate rest period (which the vet said was ok). He also gets extremely wriggly when he's excited or happy, which is difficult to control. I should note that I suspect (in hindsight) that he'd been living with some sort of mild disk issue for about a year before the proper episode - but really don't understand what this means in terms of the possibility or probability of the disk healing completely.
- Should we revisit or extend his crate rest beyond what the vet recommended, due to the above? We told the vet about it, who wasn't concerned as long as Seymour didn't show any signs of pain or deterioration afterwards, but I worry that this will have kept the disk from healing properly.
- If we finish the conservative treatment program and he's basically the same as before his episode (generally happy to walk and run, but occasionally will walk slowly and pant when off leash and unstimulated; never showing any signs of pain at home), would you recommend trying another 8 weeks of strict crate rest before considering surgery? Or since he's generally happy, do we just accept that he's not going to walk as much as he used to and pop him in his stroller whenever he shows a reluctance to walk? Our insurance would cover the surgery, so we have no problem getting it for him if it's required - we just don't want him to go through it if it's not necessary.
Thank you!! Jo & Chris
1 pain? No 2 How much does your dog weigh? 9.6kg Age? 6 years (ish) A.. No meds since end of June, but previously on 100mg Gabapentin (3x per day, then reduced to 2 after a few weeks) and 10ml Metacam (1x per day) 3 stomach damage. None 4 Unknown mixed (possibly Jack Russel & Corgi) Your dog’s name? Seymour Your name? Jo 5 Was the diagnosis IVDD (aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc)? Yes, diagnosed by neurology specialist 6 X-ray on May 10, and MRI on May 31 7 bladder control? Yes 8 He never had any problems walking or wobbliness
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2022 11:37:18 GMT -7
Welcome Jo! A few brief points to help you understand disc disease. Then a few links that will more fully explain the disease, the care, etc. Good to have this info under your belt so you can live many happy years ahead with Seymour. Some dogs have multiple disc episodes over their lifetime while other may have just one. Being prepared with and IVDD dog means you know the signs of pain and are able to monitor neuro functions to crate at once and get to a vet. It takes 8 weeks of strict rest to heal the disc from the date of starting strict rest with first signs of disc problem/vet diagnosis. IF your dog is not currently having a disc episode, then there is no need to be in the recovery suite. Shortcut thru IVDD is great for getting an overall understanding of what this disease is: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/ Learn the care tips and ideas for making the 8 weeks of STRICT rest go smoother with our member ideas: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/Graduated dogs at 8 weeks of rest begin a slow and gradual re-introduction back to physical activities over the course of a couple of months. A sample schedule plus lots of ideas for encouraging safe activities: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/?highlight=sample%20scheduleOwner knowledge to live with an IVDD dog helps with protecting them and dealing with your own fears of letting them be a dog within reason: 1) dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips 2) dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivdd 3) dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/As you cover these readings, please check back if you have any further concerns or questions. We'd love to chat more with you!
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Post by Jo & Seymour on Jul 29, 2022 3:07:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the links, Paula, that's really helpful. Have read through the information, and still wondering if there is actually any way (physical, or diagnostic) to tell if and how well a disk has healed?
Best, Jo
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 29, 2022 10:18:30 GMT -7
Jo, I imagine disc healing is similar to broken arm healing and other types of healing. It is known how long it takes to heal a broken arm of about 6 weeks. Discs take longer because they do not have the blood rich supply bone has to help with healing. If Seymour did 8 weeks of strict rest to prevent re-tearing the disc. And if by the end of 8 weeks he was off all meds (both anti-inflammatory drug and all pain meds) and no signs of pain where evident, it is pretty certain the disc did form scar tissue. While MRIs can show both hard tissue and the soft tissue of discs, spinal cord, the various imaging have in common the need for anesthesia to get the best image. Keep in mind the cautions with anesthesia. We can't know if there would be another disc quite prematurely aged. Imaging should be reserved for times when the benefit clearly weighs a potential risk. If Seymour is not showing any signs of pain typical to a current disc episode and he is not showing any new or increased diminishment of neuro functions, likely the disc in question has formed good secure scar tissue. MONITORING FOR A DISC EPISODE *
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