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Post by Bellamy on Jul 18, 2022 8:29:29 GMT -7
gabapentin 100 mg every 7 hours
carprofen 100 mg every 12 hours treated via left T-13-L3 and right L3/L4 hemilaminectomy 52 pounds/4 years old
mixed pit and jack russell [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit ]
52 lbs 4 y.o.
carprofen 100 mgs 2x/day
gabapentin 100 mgs 3x/day (every 7 hrs.)
Bell needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/carprofen! Very stressful time. Brought Bell home on [7/16] Saturday morning with what feels like minimal instructions. She is heavy so we cannot lift her from floor crate.
So we created a corner right by exit door. She still seems to be in quite a lot of pain with no bladder or poop control.
She currently wears front harness and a back one in order to assist with walking. The vet said to remove the back harness when she is indoors but it is very challenging to put the harness back on without her whimping she seems to be in pain when we lift to put back on. Should we keep the harness on to reduce the times we move her?
Massages. We massaged her yesterday, two separate times. She seems to be ok but then after massaged she shakes and seems uncomfortable. She is eating good and drinking water.
How many times should we be walking her outside? I keep seeing strict crate but with bigger dogs and us not being to lift her it is so hard and we have guilt thinking we are hurting her. Should I ask the vet if she needs more pain meds? Tomorrow will be her one week [7/12] surgery anniversary. Should she be in less pain?
This is so new to us and before I brought her home from surgery I thought I knew what to expect but no one can prepare you for the stress and the not knowing if we are handling her properly. Also the videos and blogs are useful for small pets but when you have a heavier dog this info is not helpful. I have called and we even went back to see the vet on Sunday. The neurologist DVM, MSc MRCVS [Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons] was not there but the tech was very helpful. But when we get home again, struggling with taking harness on and off and us moving her.
Please help. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 18, 2022 14:25:51 GMT -7
Welcome! Hi, my name is Paula, what's yours? What country do you live in? Clearly her pain med is not yet right. There should be no pain upon the pain meds being corrected within the hour. And there after no pain right up to the next doses. Often it takes a cocktail of pain meds (gabapentin for nerve pain, traMADol as the general analgesic and methocarbamol for muscle contraction pain. Have no patience with pain. Phone in and report your observations to get the meds adjusted asap now, today 7/18..It is not clear what you mention about bladder control. ---Does she leak on you when you try to lift her? --- Are you finding urine leaks in bedding? The are signs a dog has lost bladder control and needs to be manually expressed by you every 2-3 hours as you learn this new skill. As your expertise improves you will move to every 3-4hrs, 4-6 hrs and even 8 hrs at night. If Bell has truly lost bladder control you'll need a hands on your hands type of expressing lesson from your own vet or one at the hospital. Good to review this video and the tips so you get more out of the lesson. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/LARGE DOG TIPS Explain more where you are having difficulties, we may be able to offer suggestions. In the meantime. this page covers many solutions owners have had with large dog care. dodgerslist.com/2022/02/10/large-dog-care-tips-ivdd/EMAIL ALERTS Please register to open up email alerts when you have a reply waiting. Your can receive email alerts when someone has posted. Timely interaction/communications is needed when helping your dog. We will be watching for your post to learn name of meds adjusted (mgs dose and frequency for each). And most importantly to learn Bell is fully out of pain. You can't properly care for a dog in pain. AND pain hinders healing. |
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Jul 18, 2022 18:42:30 GMT -7
Hello Paula,
Greetings from Dallas, my name is Sylvia. Bell seems to be doing a little better, and I am so grateful for your update and words of wisdom. I think what was confusing for me were Conservative vs. surgery. Bell had surgery and after reading and re-reading the terms it started to make sense. "Strict Crate" can mean so many things when you are stressed, sleep deprived, ignorant to the surgery and just still feeling devastated that your once happy and sassy dog is now going through this painful event with the chance of never walking again (50 %).
I spoke to the nurse today since the dr was not in the office. She said that Bell is ok to handle and should not be in pain. I also cannot lift her since she is heavy so when I would try to put her back harness on it was very challenging because she would yelp and even tried to bite my hand. The nurse said that Bell did that while in care but she should not be in pain.
Since I was confused with Strict Crate I kept thinking that I should not move her. But the nurse said that since I could not pick Bell up that Bell should be able to walk the few steps wearing her harnesses outside to try to get her to do potty or express her. She said it was fine to help her walk outside multiple times, move to clean her area, and of course to do the physical therapy they recommended.
Today [7/18] we noticed that Bell is working with me when I try to put on her back harness (still nerve racking) and I started telling her to "park it" when we get back to her area and I gently help her lay down. In conclusion, bringing her home was overwhelming and we kept thinking we were hurting her and her legs were in the wrong direction when she laid down etc. Next step is to get her on Prilosac and tomorrow when I speak with the Dr ask her for the prescription you recommended. I also need to practice the expressing and just be less stressed about her situation. I just love her so much and just want her to get better. Thank you for this forum and wealth of information. Bell sends hugs and sweet wet kisses, Sylvia |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 18, 2022 19:34:17 GMT -7
Sylvia, home coming can be overwhelming til you establish a routine. Surgery removed the offending pieces of disc material where they were not supposed to be. So the POST op rest is to heal the surgical areas and PT is allowed as directed by the surgeon. For how many weeks is post op rest to be? What did the surgeon direct for PT? Any of these in the video below? Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain those muscles with lost nerve connection and keep the joints flexible.
Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog: If a dog is biting and yelping it sounds like some degree of comfort. Or could it have been cage rage? So YOU monitor him at home. Any sign of discomfort speak up on behalf of Bell to get meds adjusted. It normally takes about 14 days for before all the surgery caused inflammation is gone. That is why dogs are sent home on pain meds! Usually it takes more than one pain med to give full comfort from pain.
Explain more about Bell's neuro status.
Did the surgeon on discharge date say she had deep pain sensation (DPS)?
Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord:
1. ? Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function.
2. ? Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.
3. ___ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. ___ Some weak leg movement, and then
___ ability to move up into a standing position, and then
___ wobbly walking.
5. ___Being able to walk with more steadiness and
properly place the paw without knuckling under.
6. ___Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/
Knuckling:
thumb.ibb.co/k3dqRS/Knuckling.jpg
Pepcid AC is active in 30 mins to suppress acids.
Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours.
Give the anti-inflammatory carprofen with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html
Prilosec takes about 3 days to reach peak effectiveness.
Read more about stomach protection meds so you can effectively discuss things with your vet: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/
EXPRESSING
Express every 2-3 hours while perfecting this new skill. Periodically take her outdoors to do the Sniff and Pee test if she can do a happy tail wag. The next neuro function to return after happy wagging is bladder control.
So you could express her on a pee pad indoors or you can continue to take her outside to express. Personally I found my dog was too interested in smells and life outdoors and I could not express very well. Indoors, expressing was a piece of cake (after I had honed my skill after a week's worth of expressing).
SNIFF and PEE TEST
The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control is with the “sniff and pee test.” Carry outdoors, set them on an old pee spot to sniff. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. See if they will release urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should continue to do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
NOTE: When the bladder is full, it fills the entire abdomen area so any pressure can release urine. You may need to hold the pressure for a little longer than you think you would. As the bladder empties, it gets smaller and can slip away from you. You’ll need to find it again. Sometimes it moves back by the pelvic area. Keep pressing until the bladder feels flat, almost like your hands are touching.
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Jul 21, 2022 18:53:41 GMT -7
Hello no new update, the vet/surgeon never called to follow up but we are taking Bell for her two week post surgery check up [7/26] on Tuesday so I will update on what is discussed. Bell is feeling more alert and is barking so I am happy that she is finally showing some of her sassy personality again. Hearty appetite has returned and drinking plenty of water. I do have a question. Bell whines when she needs to go outside to poop. Is there any chance she can feel this and that is why she whines? Today we also noticed a slight movement on her tail when she pooped that she had never done before. Is that just an automatic reflex or a potential good sign? We still need to express her no changes there but these little signs are giving us some hope. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 21, 2022 20:30:44 GMT -7
Sylvia, you've reported some very good progress in getting back to feeling his usual self with appetite, alertness and interested in commenting on life around him.
Usually any leg, tail, paw movements are do to reflex. So that we humans can know for sure, always look for some head level involvement. Such as hearing your happy talk, then a tail wag would be purposeful brain directed movement.
I would imagine if the bladder gets rather full, it presses on other things. Bell might feel the discomfort of a full bladder. However without the brain having a connection to the bladder, she has no control.
When you take her out to express, every couple of days are you first letting her sniff an old pee spot in the grass. Wait and see if she tries to release urine? If she does not have ability to control bladder, then you go ahead and express.
Yes, do keep us posted on the 7/26 check up. Would like to know the surgeon's assessment about deep pain sensation on that date.]
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Jul 26, 2022 20:45:15 GMT -7
Hello Paula,
Bell had her two week follow up vet appt to get her staples removed and for the vet to check to see if there are any signs of progress. Unfortunately we were advised that there was none. Not only were we really disappointed that Bell shows no progress but we also felt that Bell was quickly dismissed right after we arrived. We were never sat in an office. We basically had Bells follow up appt in the lobby. The vet never came out only her tech. We walked in sat in the lobby and the tech came out and said that she would be taking Bell to the back to get her staples removed. When I asked if we were going to meet with Dr Kelly, the tech said we can ask her questions and she would check with Dr Kelly on the answers. It almost felt like Dr Kelly didn't want to meet with us because of the lack of progress on Bells side. However we went in fully understanding that Bell's chances were 50/50 so we are not blaming anyone. We did ask questions and the tech painted a dim picture on Bells progress and basically said that we needed to get used to a new normal.
We asked when Bell could start laser therapy or acupuncture and at first the tech said we could start now but then she asked the dr she came back and said that we would need another 4 weeks. We were hoping to start sooner but I guess we will need to wait. Have you been advised to wait that long?
We were excited that Bell had stopped leaking so we are hoping she can control her bladder. Unfortunately she gets very nervous in long car rides so we gave her some Tazadone and that seemed to make her leak more than ever. We are hoping that it was the medication that made her start leaking again. She is now taking gabepentin (what is left) every 12 hours. My husband is obsessed with massaging Bell and he is determined that we can get some type of sensations back. I am also trying to be optimistic but it's so hard. We love her so much and we will deal with what happens but do you have any recommendations for us? Again, should we wait 4 more weeks for therapy? Should I get a second opinion? We are also disappointed in the lack of bed side manner from our vet but it is what it is. We didn't do any research on where to take her, we were directed to that surgery center, so just like a lot of things that happened in the past two weeks I wish we had do overs. Any feedback is appreciated. thank you!] |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 26, 2022 21:26:58 GMT -7
Sylvia, so sorry you had such a dang bum vet appt and never saw the surgeon. Jeesh! That was so totally wrong.
Did you specifically ask if the Neuro (not the vet tech. trust only the surgeon about DPS) had examined Bell? Did the neuro say if she has deep pain sensation today? Call back and find out this important piece of information.
Every couple of days are you first letting her sniff an old pee spot in the grass? Wait and see if she tries to release urine? If she does not have ability yet to control bladder to sniff and then pee, then you go ahead and express. How often are you expressing (every 3 or 4 hrs?) and does she stay dry in-between times. If yes, then you can try expressing every 4-6 hrs, and so forth.
Explain to your husband that it is Belle's body which does the nerve healing. Normal three times a day massage, touch and surgeon directed PT is good, but not if it is overdone obsessively.
Acupuncture and laser are therapies neuros often promote starting even day after a surgery. Did you ask what the specific reason was that for Belle it should wait 4 more weeks? Call back and find out.
Has Belle graduated from post-op rest to let the surgical areas heal? Most surgeons direct 4-6 weeks of rest...all depends on the dog's case. If you did not get an answer, call back and ask.
Once Belle has graduated from post-op rest, we have lots to share with you. In the meantime this surgeon explains with a nice bedside manner about nerve healing...something you'll be interested in reading about:
Ortho surgeon Andy Torrington BVMS CertSAO MRCVS explains why the need for patience with nerve healing:
Belle's neuro owes you some answers and the opportunity to speak directly with him not thru a 3rd party!
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 3, 2022 18:43:43 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Yesterday was Bells 3 week surgery anniversary and unfortunately not much has changed. Bell has been acting depressed (more than usual) so I called her vet and she advised that Bell might have a UTI so she has an appt with her neighborhood vet tomorrow morning.
The vet confirmed no sensation and she also recommended no therapy until she meets her 6 week post surgery. I have read different blogs and information articles where there are stories of dogs with Bells type of trauma regaining some form of sensation and even some completely healing. My question is did the dog show subtle signs of improvement during this time? Bell is losing muscle mass on her back legs and lower back and her toes still knuckle and no bladder control should we see Some type of improvement by now?
As I mentioned we massage her twice a day, and we have seen her show some resistance on some of the movements when we massage her back legs (while she is laying down) and at times they even tremble but today out of nowhere no resistance no trembling. We get our hopes up and then we don't see any signs of improvement and we get emotionally crushed. What happens if there is no improvement at her six week mark?
Should we still get her laser or acupuncture therapy or is it a lost cause at that time? We are fully committed to loving her unconditionally no matter what, but it is so hard to wake up every morning and see your baby girl so sad. She is eating fine and drinking water, I just hope and pray we get one little sign. Anything. Your feedback is very much appreciated. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 3, 2022 20:10:49 GMT -7
Sylvia, the only kind of vet to trust about correctly identifying deep pain sensation is a neuro or ortho. Deep Pain Sensation is the first neuro function to return. DPS is the indicator for more nerve healing to take place. What kind of vet "confirmed no sensation" and what was the date of the confirmation, today? or ?For how many weeks did the neuro surgeon want for post-op rest? Many times the post-op rest directive includes at home PT of massage, moving the joints and causing muscles to fire. See my July 18 post for post-op PT at home. Have you asked the neuro herself if any of those would be ok for Bell at home? Have you voiced your concerns?
Are you doing those important toe tickle massages to get the muscle firing. Are you helping her to move her joints so they don't get stiff? Those things are demonstrated in the mention video.
Three weeks in the realm of nerve healing is a very short time. Think more in terms of months rather than days/weeks for the slowest part of the body to heal. You really can not compare one dog's disc episode with another. For each dog there is a different degree of disc damage, nerve damage and the factors. There is no timeline for nerve healing to take place. It could be close to a year out it could be a lot sooner. Make sure you are not projecting your concerns on to Bell. She will pick up on any tiny change in your face, your voice, your body language. Just like when you go to visit a friend in the hospital put on a happy face and voice. Everyone heals best in a positive environment. Dogs live in the moment. If they are enjoying eating that's a positive sign. If Bell, does not yet have enough nerve healing taking place by the time the surgical sites have healed in 6 weeks, then life goes on. You will begin a slow and gradual introduction back to family life. We'll have more for you on that topic. At 6 weeks (Aug 23) you will best be able to decide if $$ are best spent on a wheelchair or on underwater treadmill, laser therapy depending on what neuro function changes you might observe. Some dogs will need more time for nerve healing to take place at graduation from post-op rest. Part if getting back to enjoy life would be a wheelchair so they can run and feel the wind again.
Life is a journey. No matter where you are in the travels, live in the now. Dogs know to take life a moment at a time and enjoy it for all it has to offer. They move forward in life in the best way they can. We can learn a lot from them!
Some dogs will be showing ability to do a happy butt wriggle and to very weakly use their legs such as to reposition themselves in their suite. What they can't yet do fighting gravity, they CAN DO in an underwater treadmill. The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again. The observations to look for are ALWAYS some movement in conjunction with head level involvement (hearing, seeing, dreaming, smell): Leg movements can often be reflexive in nature when paws are tickled or during expressing time. Let us know what you observe.-- She hears your happy talk or she smells you bringing her dinner AND then you observe a happy butt wriggle. -- She is dreaming and you observe back leg movements. -- She can smell an old pee spot in the grass and then her brain directs urine release. That is the proof needed to tell if bladder control is starting to come back. How often are you expressing her bladder? Is she staying drying in between times?Let us know what your local vet tells you if a bladder infection and what he observes overall about Bell. Hopefully your vet will let you in and speak to the same concerns you have expressed here and did not get to express with the neuro surgeon. It is always good to have a 2nd opinion. What if anything is prescribed (name of med, mgs dose and times per day). |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 4, 2022 13:15:16 GMT -7
My dog Frankie had surgery when he suddenly became paralyzed. At the four week follow-up, he was as paralyzed as the day he went in for surgery, with no bladder or bowel control. The only difference was that the terrible pain had gone.
I took Frankie to a rehab center where he walked on an underwater treadmill. At that time, he could not stand, let alone walk. The buoyancy of the water held him upright, and the therapist helped position his feet correctly. Over time, the level of water in the tank was lowered as Frankie was stronger and could support more of his own weight. The underwater treadmill helped him relearn how to walk. It took months, but Frankie did regain his ability to walk and bladder and bowel control. I don't think he would have recovered nearly as quickly without it.
I am sharing Frankie's story to show you that recovery is slow but possible. I don't know if you have had a chance to look at the info on the underwater treadmill that Paula pointed you towards. If that kind of therapy is available to you, do consider it for Bell.
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 4, 2022 19:52:05 GMT -7
Paula, Again Thank you so much for your encouraging words and such helpful information. We finally got Bells medical records and it stated on the records Negative DPS from her last visit [date?]. I will call tomorrow to get some more clarification. Unfortunately I do not feel like this Neuro and staff are the easiest to communicate with, I feel like they already wrote Bell off and we are somewhat of a nuisance when we call. I would definitely not recommend this Neuro surgeon to anyone. Since the Neuro is 45 minutes away we took her to her local neighborhood vet that is 5 minutes from our house to get tested for UTI early this morning Which works out great because Bell Hates car rides and is a nervous wreck. They are running a urinalysis and we should get results [8/5] tomorrow.
The vet did send us home with antibiotics since her vulva looked swollen and might have an infection. So she is on 100 mg ✙cefpodoxime and still on 100 mg gabapentin 2 capsules every 8 hours.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit ]
52 lbs 4 y.o.
gabapentin 100 mgs 3x/day
✙cefpodoxime 100mgs ?x/day]
When I got home after work today she seemed to be in better spirits. She might also have been constipated she pooped on her way to the vet And the vets office. She was a regular big pooper and since her surgery she usually only poops once a day. So her pooping so much makes me think maybe she was also depressed because she was constipated. Who knows we will UTI results tomorrow. Bell gets massaged twice a day, once in the morning and in the evenings. Today her legs were trembling/shaking a lot while she was laying down and I was massaging her thighs and lower limbs. We hope that is good sign. I have not seen her back legs twitch when she sleeps but I will pay more attention. Definitely plan on additional treatment after the neuro says Bell is ready. She wrote on her records to review after 6 week mark and the water treadmill is something we will definitely want to do. To be honest I was really sad, last night and this morning after her vet visit. I go through ups and downs and my husband who is usually the negative nelly in the relationship keeps telling me that it is too soon to think she can't recover at least 50 percent. I then read your update and it made me feel even better. I really needed to hear that thank you! |
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 4, 2022 20:10:09 GMT -7
Hi Romy, Thank you sooo much for sharing Frankie's recovery story. I am so happy to hear that Frankie is doing so well!!! As I mentioned to Paula, these couple of days have been really hard for me, so to read about Frankie makes me start to believe that Bell can walk again. Yes, I have already reached out to a couple of rehab centers locally and once Bell is given the ok to start her therapy I am prepared to make it happen. I had read about water treadmill, and it seems that this type of therapy would help Bell tremendously. We can't wait to get her started, since her surgeon has only recommended certain paw, leg massages, (will re-evaulate in her 6 wk post op) which is fine but her back legs are losing muscle and her lower back is thinning out. We help her do her puppy squats which seem to be helping a little. I hope and pray that hopefully in the near future I will also be able to share my successful rehab story of my Bell Valentine  |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 5, 2022 13:22:08 GMT -7
Usually, the last visit with the surgeon is at the post-surgery follow-up. This usually takes place at the four or six week mark. In most case, the surgeon does not do a longer term follow-up. Nerves take a long time to heal, and some surgeons may not be aware their patient did eventually regain function. This may make the surgeon a bit pessimistic about the chances that function may be regained over time.
I am not sure if the (excellent) surgeon that operated on Frankie was ever aware that Frankie regained his ability to walk.
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Post by Mary & Kappy on Aug 7, 2022 12:32:50 GMT -7
Just had to let you know we are in pretty much the same boat. Our Basset Hound, Kappy, is 70pounds. My husband and I are in our mid-70’s trying to deal with Kappy’s spinal disc condition. We are also stressed, sleep deprived, and now I think I’ve pulled a muscle in my back. I suspect Kappy’s chances of recovery are less than 50%, and will discuss with her doctor tomorrow where we go from here. We want to give her every chance of recovery, but must also consider her quality of life not only now, but six months from now.
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 8, 2022 20:28:04 GMT -7
Hello Mary, so sorry to hear about Kappy. We love our pets so much and it is so hard to see them suffer. It has been really challenging taking care of Bell and she is 50 pounds. I too have been feeling lower back pain. We will be at 4 week post op surgery tomorrow and I hope after 6 week mark it will be easier for us to move her around. We are finally pros at putting on her harness so that has helped and I have chairs everywhere so I can be sitting when I lift her to go potty. What we finally have done is actually expressed her bladder on a pee pad indoors when we are in a pinch. That seems to work out best especially late at night. Please keep us posted on Kappy!
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 14, 2022 18:29:20 GMT -7
Hello Paula,
Finally some good news to report. About mid last week, we noticed Bell was holding her urine longer and letting us know when she needed to pee. Then on Friday we [8/12] started to ween her off her pain meds and on Saturday she broke out of her nesting area and we found her a couple of steps from her area. When we put her back on her area she lifted her back legs up and tried to get up On Her Own. We could hardly believe our eyes. Her neuro had advised us that some dogs develop spinal walking so since she still does not have sensation on her back legs we are assuming that is what she is doing. This Tuesday is her 5 week post of anniversary. I plan on calling the neuro first thing [8/15] tomorrow to update on Bells progress since she said that we needed to wait 6 weeks to start on therapy. Since she is still not 100 percent continence I read that water treadmill therapy requires for the dog to be able to fully able to control her bladder etc so I assume laser and accupuncture would be a good start? Do you have any recommendations on what therapy we should start with? Thank you!
Sylvia
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 15, 2022 8:45:00 GMT -7
Sylvia, below is the order nerves heal in. Only dogs who do not have DPS can possibly learn to spinal walk. Learn more here: dodgerslist.com/2021/09/27/spinal-walking/ While neither your local vet nor you can be trusted to correctly indentify DPS, everyone can correctly identify a happy tail wag which would give proof to the existence of DPS.
1. ? Deep Pain Sensation (DPS): the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function.2. ? Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.3. ___ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.4. ___ Some weak leg movement, and then ___ ability to move up into a standing position, and then ___ wobbly walking.Let us know if you have specifically done some happy talk or showed her a treat and then you observed a happy wag.
Attempting to move up into a stand does sound like it could be nerve healing. Waiting to hear more from you on the confirming tail wag. And would like to know about the results of the confirming "Sniff and Pee" test.
SNIFF and PEE
The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control is with the “sniff and pee test.” Carry outdoors, set them on an old pee spot to sniff. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. See if they will release urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should continue to do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
Laser and acupuncture are often started days after a surgery to help kick start nerve cells to self repair. Read more to be able to understand and discuss many options with the rehab clinic: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/acupuncture-laser-therapies/ |
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 15, 2022 18:17:50 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Unfortunately, Bell is not wagging her tail nor sniff and peeing. I guess since she has been holding her urine and letting out her attn yelp when she has to potty we thought she was getting some sensation back.
In the past she would pee on her pee pads throughout the day and night and just recently we noticed her pee pads were dry. Well I hope it is still something of a good sign. I called her neuro today and she is on vacation until next week.
I called a local pet recovery center and Bell has a consultation next Monday.
Bell does seem to be in better spirits so that makes us happy. Sigh I was really hoping her getting up was a good sign...I will keep reporting any new updates. Best,
Sylvia |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 15, 2022 18:23:42 GMT -7
Sylvia, it is still quite early in the nerve healing department. While you would like to see it happening now, it is not out of the questions nerves could heal down the line. Just takes patience to let the body see what it can do to heal.
The important thing you mention is Bell is in better spirits...that is a good thing!!
Keep us posted on the rehab appt next Monday.
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Post by Sylvia & Bell on Aug 24, 2022 18:02:09 GMT -7
Hello Paula, Bell is now 6 week post op and is doing ok. The vet confirmed no DPS but we are moving forward. We signed her up for 4 weeks of physical therapy. She will be going twice a week. The neuro recommended more pt and water treadmill versus laser therapy. We are also l ooking into getting her a wheelchair. She weights 47 pounds so her wheelchair will be fitted and our house unfortunately isn't open space so we don't think she can wear her wheelchair in the house. Still we know she will love having freedom to run and roam around the yard. She is holding her urine but we still need to express her but we will take it. She is actually holding her urine overnight so that is helping us get some sleep. So we are getting a routine going. We are hoping therapy is going to help her do you have any recommendations? She is being silly and the vet said she is healed but she likes to wiggle on her back. Is that ok? That was one of her favorite things to do, she gets on her back and wiggles but now we are worried she could hurt her spine? We are very careful with her and only want to protect her. Overall she is feeling more like herself and making us laugh again. We go through bad days but mostly good days now. We are grateful she is still with us and appreciate life and small things so much more. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 25, 2022 10:47:39 GMT -7
Sylvia, you have the right attitude that mirrors Bell's. Life goes on, how one gets from one point to another matters not. It is just that one is able to get there. Hey, being silly is a joyful thing. Wriggling on her back is OK. Important details: 1. What kind of vet confirmed no DPS (your general DVM or one at rehab, your neuro surgeon)?2. On what date was that confirmation?
3. Currently can Bell sniff an old pee spot outside and then decides to release urine there?
4. Currently any ability to do a happy tail wag with you happy talking?
WHEELCHAIR
My dog didn't really use a wheelchair in the house, always getting caught by furniture legs, etc. Much easier for him to navigate by scooting. The cart is invaluable outdoors to go everywhere— over hills and valleys, paths in the woods, puddles, the beach shoreline. Do some study. Which features to look for in a cart that will be used everyday: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/06/wheelchairs/GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION Determine how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation from rest. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled and supervised conditions in the house to scoot, go on sling walks. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Your Bell's muscles are soft and out of shape after the rest period. Gradually build up her muscles and lungs. Take a look at our information. Gradually building muscles over a month's time will have Bell safely running in her cart and having fun! SAMPLE SCHEDULE Here is a sample schedule to safely and slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/?highlight=sample%20scheduleDIY back PROTECTION around the house While at this point you don't need ramps for a dog to go up to furniture, you may need ramps to get outside and with a push from you back up the ramp to the front door. Also if Bell likes to sit with you on the couch you'll need a ramp for her to slide down. Never know when the doorbell rings, a waft of food from the kitchen would have them needing to quickly get down from the couch.  Ramp training a necessary thing to teach how to slide down for the dog with paralyzed legs. Teach them no shortcuts off the ramp, etc.
GARMENTS TO PROTECT You will want to consider if you need to prevent rug burns from scooting and protecting bacteria from entering the bladder. Females have a very short path into the bladder and the use of a garment will protect against urinary tract infection (UTI). There are some sew and no-sew options. dodgerslist.com/2020/06/13/garment-skin-uti-protection/ **  Also leaking urine about the house has solutions too if you need one: tinkletrousers.com/ claims not to pull down their rear end! HAPPY DAYS AHEAD 1) Lots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog. Includes how to handle dentals, x-rays, nail trims and more: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips-2 May we turn the tables and ask YOU for help? Did you know there are less than a handful who volunteer daily to help dogs and their owners? We need helping hands from other Forum members in educating. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Too many dogs are put to sleep because owners lack education about IVDD treatment. STRICT crate rest and proper medication have helped many dogs recover. We depend on all members to pay it forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate! Pick what suits you....
We depend on you. Here are some ways to help.. ![https://i.postimg.cc/R0y7zpGx/IVDD-survior-gallery.jpg]() ** -- Please celebrate Bell's graduation! Add a graduation photo and a short caption to our Gallery to give other members inspiration about your IVDD Survivor! dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/add-dog-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-- "Share" our FB posts www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist-- When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, JR Terriers, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas, Frenchies) give out our free wallet cards. Hand carry our literature and print out our letter of introduction for your vet. ► ORDER BROCHURES & cards, they're free!◀︎ for your vet and wallet cards for you.  -- Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions about surgery? We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendationsState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: Silveia, don't be a stranger! Stop in periodically. We really do love to hear how your dog is doing. We'd love a short video clip to see Bell in action at home, at PT and living & loving life in spite of IVDD! if you see a new member in a tough spot, give them hope. A brief paragraph about your dog can be insanely supportive and inspiring in a time of need!  |
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