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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 3, 2013 0:14:44 GMT -7
Hello,
I am looking for any suggestions or help for my 7 year old dachshund, Sophia. I have been reading several of the articles you have on your wonderful website but I was wondering if anyone could give me a suggestion for something we could do to help make our dog more comfortable.
About 4 weeks ago sophia had an arched back, wouldn't look up, and would whimper. We kept her resting for a week and brought her to the vet and he told us she had IVDD to let her rest and restrict her activity. She has shown no loss of motor function of her legs. We didnt know anything about IVDD and just kept her in the kennel for most of the day, and would keep her on our lap in the evenings/ let her walk around in the evening. A week later it got much worse and she was put on Prednisone and Tramadol. After aother week things seemed to get even worse and we brought her back and he kept her on the prednisone and changed the pain med to Gabapentin and Methocarbamol. Since being put on the new medication she has been on strict crate rest. For the past 4 days she will wake up and be crying in pain. When she eats food she cries in pain. We just started her on Pecid AC after reading some of your articles. She has had normal color feces and has not thrown up. She only seems to cry out in pain when she eats and when she barks. She still has an arched back and looks at the ground before we give her the pain meds but It seems to be much worse after she eats.
We have been very strict about 24/7 crate rest. We were told the only options were surgery (Which is not an option) or to put her down since she has shown no signs of improvement. We love our little sophia and want to do everything we can for her before we have to choose euthanasia. She is in so much pain.
If it is GI upset due to the other medication, how long will it take for the Pepcid to help her feel better?
Thank you in advance for any suggestions. We have been very upset, frustrated and depressed about our little sophia's condition.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 3, 2013 4:53:53 GMT -7
I'm so sorry to hear about Sophia's problems. My name is Marjorie - what's yours? First of all, we'll need to know the exact dosages in mgs and frequency of dosage for each medication that Sophia is on. What was the date strict crate rest started? Since Sophia is having pain when eating and barking and wouldn't look up, this would indicate a neck disc problem. Neck injuries are more painful than back injuries and can take longer to heal. You must immediately contact your vet and discuss Sophia's pain. Her medications need to be adjusted. Here are some tips on dealing with a cervical injury, such as raising her food dishes, softening her kibble, etc.: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmPlease do not consider euthanasia. Sophia's pain medication needs to be adjusted and once her pain is completely under control, her healing can begin. Cervical disc injuries are very painful and can be tricky to get under control. Even though her meds have been changed before, they still need to be adjusted further. There should be no signs of pain - holding the head in an unusual position, head held high or nose to the ground, shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, arched back, holding leg up flamingo style, not wanting to bear weight on the leg, just not their usual perky-interested-in-life self - from one dose of pain medication to the next dose. Have no patience with pain. Be firm with your vet when you speak to him/her that Sophia's pain medication must be adjusted. And please let us know what the vet says after speaking to him. Don't despair - just focus on getting Sophia's pain completely under control. And again, please let us know the exact dosage in mgs and frequency of each of Sophia's medications. The moderators here can be extremely helpful in advising you on medication. But meanwhile, please contact your vet. And if your present vet can't get Sophia's pain under control, you need to find a qualified vet who is more familiar with IVDD. All the best to you. |
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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 3, 2013 10:05:10 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie. I am Meg. The following is what we are giving Sophia Gabapentin- 50mg every 12 hours Methocarbamol- 100mg every 8 hours Prednisone- 2.5mg once a day (reduced from 5mg once a day) Pepcid AC 5mg once a day. We just started that yesterday.The strict crate rest started about a week ago. Before that time it was just no jumping no stairs and our normal crate schedule. she was on Tramadol but it didnt seem to help much. We have been softening her food and hand feeding it to her. She looks so sad. it is breaking my heart.  |
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 3, 2013 10:49:29 GMT -7
Hi Meg, I am Maureen. Welcome to Dodgers List, I am so sorry that Sophia is having such a painful IVDD episode. Marjorie is right - she needs better pain control , neck discs seem to hurt the worst. Her prednisone is already being tapered from 5mg a day to 2.5 mg a day, and pain = swelling= more time needed on prednisone, especially with a neck episode, so your Vet needs to know that this isn't the time to be tapering her prednisone. Tramadol can be given along with her current medications - it actually works synergystically with gabapentin for better relief. Please contact your Vet and insist on help to manage her pain.
How much does Sophia weigh??
I know how awful it is to see them hurting like this, we all do. We are here to help you in any way that we can. Please keep us posted, and read, read, read everything you can about IVDD. It will help you to be the best advocate that you can be for your little girl.
Keep us posted.
Keeping you in thought and prayer(((hugs)))
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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 3, 2013 12:28:46 GMT -7
Thank you Maureen. We contacted the vet and hope to get her on Tramadol. From what I have been reading I am worried about keeping her on the prednisone for too long. It sounds like there can be bad side affects if she is not tapered off. Do you know anything about this?
Thank you,
Meg
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 3, 2013 16:24:58 GMT -7
The most immediate problem with prednisone is causing damage to the gi tract - and you have Sophia on pepcid already to protect against that. The problems with prednisone come from long term use (think months), it is great for getting swelling under control, and when that happens pain is much easier to control. If your Vet won't help with aggressive pain control, find one who will. There is no reason for her to be allowed to hurt, and she will heal better and faster if her pain is controlled  Hang in there! (((hugs))) |
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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 3, 2013 19:38:23 GMT -7
Quick update: We got her Tramadol and start Laser light therapy tomorrow.
Does anyone know how to keep a dachshund from barking. Even when she is feeling miserable if she hears the front door open or someone outside she tries to bark. I guess it just shows us that there is some of her normal self even when she is pain.
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Post by Pauliana on Sept 3, 2013 21:23:03 GMT -7
Hi Meg! What is the dosage and frequency of the Tramadol? Hopefully it's every 8 hours. If she is still in pain, ask the vet to increase the frequency of the Gabapentin to every 8 hours.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm. You will see a different dog once her pain is under control. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmMarjorie and Maureen are right that Cervical pain needs to be treated aggressively and it is definitely not time to taper the Prednisone.. It hasn't finished it's work yet.. The swelling is still causing pain. The reason why she cries out when she eats is because of the pain from the neck disc.. They are so much more painful because it hurts everytime she moves her head.. Are her dishes raised in her crate so she can get to them easier? Be sure to soften her food with water if it's dry food. If possible raise her crate on a table so she doesn't have to look up to see her family. Prayers for you and Sophia..Better days are ahead. www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm |
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 4, 2013 4:41:28 GMT -7
I've never tried one of these to stop dogs from barking, Meg, but I've heard they do work. You might want to give it a try. www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12281454I hope that the Tramadol and the laser light treatments will get Sophia's pain under control. Will keep an eye out for your update. Continued prayers. |
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Sabrina
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Post by Sabrina on Sept 4, 2013 10:42:55 GMT -7
Hi Meg, I'm Sabrina. I hope the vet has Sofia's pain meds adjusted so that her pain is under control! Our doxies tend to be, erm... quite vocal, don't they?! Have you seen these links? Emergency Crate Confinement hints and tips - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm#Emergencyconfinement Clicker Training - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/clickertrain.pdfOn youtube there's a user called "kikopup" who has tons of excellent clicker training videos, from how to get started to how to work on specific areas. She has a series on "barking" (3 videos, if I'm remembering correctly) - it's been awhile since I viewed it but if memory serves the majority of it could be adapted to Sofia's recovery-suite bound situation. It sounds like Sofia is perhaps barking for different reasons in the different situations you mentioned. When someone comes through the front door, is this usually a family member/friend (that is, someone she wants to see) and is frustrated because she's in another room? If so, do you have crate casters or any sort of homemade "dolly" you can use to wheel her recovery suite from room to room? Maybe it would help to have family members/friends call you a few mins before they would be coming over so that you can wheel Sofia over by the door so she doesn't feel left out? As for hearing noises outside, one strategy I've heard of in positive dog training circles that seems to work quite well (with commitment and persistence!) is: have a bag of tiny tasty treats in your pocket. When you hear a noise, give Sofia a treat. Her reaction (barking, listening, etc) doesn't matter. She's getting a treat for "free" because the noise happened. Over time, she begins to associate hearing a noise with you giving her a treat, so she looks to you for a treat instead of barking your head off! Of course with Sofia on crate rest it's important to keep the treats tiny and/or use her meals for training so she doesn't put on weight and stress her poor spine even more. Gotta run - my Charley-dog is barking to tell me he has to go potty! ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 4, 2013 19:07:20 GMT -7
Hi Meg, how is Sophia doing today???
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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 5, 2013 10:04:29 GMT -7
not good. tramadol is every 8 hours Gabapentin is every 8 hours as well. Prednisone was returned to the original level (5mg). The Laser treatment didnt help. She is getting worse with each passing day. She is in pain for longer periods of time and cries out more frequently. Even 2 hours after she is given all her pain meds. The crate rest, laser therapy and medication are not keeping her pain away. At this time I think we are going to consider what is in the best interest of a dog that cannot have surgery. This is certainly not an easy post. and I have been in tears since last night. She is my sweet little sophia and I cant imagine life without her. Thank you for all the support. Meg
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 5, 2013 10:11:23 GMT -7
HI Meg, I am so sorry that your Sophia is going through such a painful episode. Call your Vet about changing her medications - neck episodes really do hurt and they need to be quite aggressive. I don't know how much Sophia weighs, but I do know that our Stevie, at 13 pounds was on 5 mg of prednisone twice a day for about a week to get the initial swelling under control. Tramadol and gabapentin can be given every 6 hours with the Vets okay. Is she still on the methocarbamol too ?- she can be given all of these meds - along with the Pepcid to protect her stomach.
I know what a nightmare this is - please try not to give up, there are ways to get her pain under control so that she feels better.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 5, 2013 10:36:38 GMT -7
Meg, Stevieluv is right your vet still has options he is not using to get that pain under control.
Advocate VERY strongly for:
-- Prednisone @ 5mg 2x a day
-- Gabapentin @ every 6 hours
-- Tramadol at 50 mgs every 6 hours
-- methocarbamol to be back on board.
-- Pepcid AC 5mg 2x a day to give full protection of the stomach
Let us know how much Sophia weighs.
Please give Sophia a chance that she has not yet been given… your vet is UNDER medicating…. disc episodes need very aggressive pain management.
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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 5, 2013 11:16:01 GMT -7
Her weight is about 13 lbs. Sorry, I forgot the Methocarbamol, She is still given that every eight hours.
BTW Sophia is the black and tan... Lilly is the red. They have been together since they were 3 months. Sophia has always had a funny spine and bowed legs.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 5, 2013 12:01:37 GMT -7
Meg, can you clarify and update the meds so we have in one place the current information :
What dose and frequency of Pred is she currently on? If it is not 2x a day, then she is not on the anti-inflammatory dose. Adovcate for being on an anti-infllammatory dose.
Are you now giving Pepcid AC 2x a day?
Have you called the vet and STRONGLY adovcated for:
gabpentin every 6 hours
tramadol every 6 hours
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Post by sophiasmommy on Sept 5, 2013 14:13:57 GMT -7
13 lbs
Gabapentin- 50mg every 12 hours
Methocarbamol- 100mg every 8 hours
Tramadol- 50mg every 8 hours
Prednisone- 2.5mg every day
Pepcid AC 5mg- twice a day.
At this time I have not called the vet.
If they are not showing improvement how do we know she will heal with rest? The vet doesnt think it looks like this injury will heal with rest.
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Deborah & Angel
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Sept 5, 2013 14:24:01 GMT -7
Omgosh, praying for you and your FurBaby, don't give up the fight...she needs you now.. Many (((hugs))) PLEASE call your Vet NOW, and let your Baby be pain free and get on the road to healing..  She needs you to speak for her...MAKE them listen to you, if not...Find one that will... |
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 5, 2013 15:23:38 GMT -7
Don't give up - we are here for you. Please call the Vet and get her meds adjusted - it will make such a big difference for both of you!! This is what Paula posted earlier regarding medications - there is huge room for adjustment from what she is on right now.
Advocate VERY strongly for:
-- Prednisone @ 5mg 2x a day
-- Gabapentin @ every 6 hours
-- Tramadol at 50 mgs every 6 hours
-- methocarbamol to be back on board.
-- Pepcid AC 5mg 2x a day to give full protection of the stomach
Keeping you in thought and prayer (((hugs)))
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Sabrina
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Post by Sabrina on Sept 5, 2013 15:27:07 GMT -7
Hi Meg, I'm so sorry to hear Sophia's still in pain. Are you seeing a "general" vet? If so, often times they do not see enough cases of IVDD to be knowledgeable enough about treatment/outcomes.
I have only worked with my general vet for Charley's disc episode, and although Charley's episode isn't cervical this was my experience:
- steroids (pred) 2x/day for 7 days then taper
- pain returned, back to pred 2x/day
- vet had a phone conference with surgeon at the animal hospital (4hrs away) who recommended surgery because the taper was not successful
- I decided against surgery for multiple reasons, mainly because pred 2x/day resolved the pain (with the pain meds) and I'd read on Dodger's list that it can take an anti-inflammatory dose of pred (5mg 2x/day) up to a month or longer to resolve the swelling.
- A week later we were able to successfully taper the pred.
So with Sophia's cervical disc (that often take longer to heal because the neck moves so much more than the back during crate rest), since she's not on an anti-inflammatory dose of pred, I'm not sure how your vet is predicting that she won't recover with rest.
I know everything is so hard when you see your baby in pain!!! Please call the vet and ask for the med schedule Paula listed. If the meds aren't at the maxium dose I don't see how you could know one way or the other if Sophia will recover with conservative treatment.
))Hugs!((
- Sabrina
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 5, 2013 17:01:45 GMT -7
Dear Meg, It would seem to me that your vet is not familiar with IVDD. Vets treat so many different diseases and illnesses that it's not surprising if they're not experts about IVDD. He has not been aggressive enough about bringing Sophia's pain under control.
Once Sophia's pain is brought under control with the proper medications, she can then begin to heal. Pain hinders healing. The prednisone is to bring the swelling down in her neck, that's what's causing her pain. It needs to be increased back up to twice a day. I know you were concerned at one point about the side effects of prednisone, but you're protecting Sophia with the Pepcid AC and it's only short term. Prednisone is very good at bringing the swelling down but does need to be increased at this point.
Please either contact this vet and discuss each of the medications and dosages that Paula and StevieLuv have posted or take Sophia to another vet for a second opinion.
My prayers are with you and Sophia.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 5, 2013 19:17:45 GMT -7
Meg, you can not say Sophia is not improving, because this vet has not YET administered aggressive pain control and you have not YET strongly advocated on behalf of Sophia by getting on the phone pronto. Why are you waiting? Sophia needs YOU to speak up for her now so she has a chance to heal. Can you move on to a vet who is comfortable in treating a neck disc? It will make all the difference in the world when you have hired a vet who is working to help Sophia not dragging his feet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm Prednisone 2.5mg 1x a day is not the anti=inflammatory dose Sophia needs…she needs to be on 5mg 2x a day. ========== 13 lbs Gabapentin- 50mg every 12 hours advocate for every 8 hoursMethocarbamol- 100mg every 8 hours Tramadol- 50mg every 8 hours advocate for every 6 hoursPrednisone- 2.5mg every day advocate for 5mgs 2x a dayPepcid AC 5mg- twice a day. =========== |
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Sept 6, 2013 12:59:12 GMT -7
Hi Meg, how is Sophia doing today? did you have any luck getting her pain meication adjusted?
Keeping you in thought and prayer (((Hugs)))
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