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Post by Monica & Roscoe on Mar 21, 2022 11:22:21 GMT -7
Roscoe 14 yr old chi/ rat terrier mix. Surgery 3/18/22 for herniated discs Hi! I'm Monica, mother of Roscoe, a 14 year old chihuahua/rat terrier mix who has had issues with his back for several years, but nothing that couldn't be managed with rest and rehabilitation therapy (acupuncture, cold laser, underwater treadmill, PT ,we haven't let him jump on/off furniture or use stairs for a few years). However, last week (Tuesday 3/15) he went on a very short walk, sat down and couldn't stand back up. His hind legs gave out and he yelped in pain. We rushed him to the ER where they said he still had feeling in his feet and we could bring him home with meds (prednisone 2.5mg every 12 hours and gabapentin 50mg 3x/day) to see if that would help. It didn't. At the follow up, we decided to do the MRI and from there the disc surgery. Roscoe had 4 chronic herniated discs and the doctor was able to get to most of them...at least the ones he thought were the problem. He is still at the hospital and we should be able to get him today or tomorrow. I just want to make sure I set him up for the best success and found this forum, which I'm so grateful! ☆2 He weighs 12lbs. 14 years, 4 months. A.. He's on IV pain meds at the hospital and I'm unsure what they'll prescribe for him once he's home. I'll definitely update once we know. ☆ 5 Was the diagnosis IVDD: 4 chronic herniated discs When we took him to the ER, we went to a hospital that had an ACVIM neurology specialist, not our regular vet. ☆ 6 Date of surgery was 3/18/22...last Friday. ☆ 7 Before the surgery, yes, he could still pee and poo on command. We just had to hold his backside up to pee and used a makeshift harness to help him poo. We lowered his pelvis slightly to get in poo position and that helped him. I don't know yet if this will still be the case post-surgery. ☆ 8 No, he cannot currently walk or move his legs. If I pinch his toes, he kicks me off, but he has no ability to walk just yet. We saw him the day after his surgery and he kept trying to get up...almost like a tick. He was doing this before the surgery too. I know he's probably confused, but I'm concerned he'll mess something up if he keeps moving constantly. He can only use his front legs right now, but he kept pushing his front up over and over. Did anyone experience this? I'd appreciate any and all advice...epecially with an elderly dog. Of course, I'll also read all the fabulous info already available here. It was such a hard decision, but the doctor ran his bloodwork and x-rayed his heart before considering surgery and he is super healthy. Plus, he was in pain. Even if the surgery doesn't help him regain the use of his legs, I'll be so grateful as long as he's not in pain. I know you all know...it's so hard.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 21, 2022 14:52:53 GMT -7
Monica, welcome to the Forum! No doubt your mind is a flurry with thoughts and concerns. It is still quite early in the nerve healing department to even have thoughts of not walking again. One step at a time in healing and owners having patience to let the body do what it can is the way to go. Sometimes patience for nerve healing is more realistic to think in terms of months rather than days/weeks. That way we are not watching for a pot of water to boil. No one can give you a time table. However, nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (DPS): the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function. 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Weak leg movement, and then -- ability to move up into a stand position, and then -- wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the paw. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Never give up hope. Stay strong and stay positive! Calm fears about nerve healing. LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/DISCHARGE DAY PREPERATION Now is the time to jot things down. Here's a starter list of questions to which you can add some of your concerns to ask your surgeon: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/03/discharge-day-list/This page is good reading by Dr. Isaacs, ACVIM (neurology) as he explains many post-op questions for our IVDD community: meds, crate rest, PT and discharge day. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/12/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers/See if there are any other things you can do to make post-op crate rest go smoother with these very useful tips and ideas: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
Please keep us updated on Roscoe as you get updates from the hospital. Can he do a happy tail wag if you do some happy talk? Or did the neuro say he has DPS? If any thing comes to mind, let's go over it with you. |
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Post by Monica & Roscoe on Mar 22, 2022 11:47:03 GMT -7
Thank you so much! Roscoe is home and comfortable.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
12 lbs 14.4 y.o.
post-op IV pain meds at hospital
Prednisone as of 3/22: 2.5 mg 1x/day for 3 days
Gabapentin 50 mg 3x day
Cefpodoxime 50 mg 1x/day]
Our neuro surgeon was very happy after he re-examined him yesterday. Saying he definitely had feeling in his legs and was much better than his last examination where he didn't have as much feeling.
Also, while he is peeing in his bed a little, he is also able to pee on command. Sniffs and pees and was happy to be outside. No tail wags just yet, but he does move it. He is eating and drinking like a champ, but hasn't pooped yet. When should I worry about that?
I'm so glad I found this forum with all this great info! I can't thank you enough! I only wish I'd found it sooner.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 22, 2022 14:04:49 GMT -7
Happy to hear that your neuro is happy with Roscoe's progress and he is home and resting comfortably. Having feeling in his legs bodes well for future healing.
Even though Roscoe can again pee on command, since he is also peeing small amounts in his bed he may not be able to fully empty his bladder yet. When do you find the wet bedding, mornings or shortly before he goes outside? For mornings, you can try giving him the last drink of the night several hours before bed. He should have free access to water during the day. If during the day, try giving him the opportunity to go more often.
For helping with poop, try pumpkin. Add equal parts water to each kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight 1x a day. You can also use a really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; or a microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato. Pumpkin helped my dog's post-op constipation and, surprisingly, he loved it. |
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Post by Monica & Roscoe on Mar 25, 2022 15:43:07 GMT -7
Thank you for your response! In the days he's been home, I have had to figure out his new cues as to when he needs to pee and poo. He hasn't had a pee mistake in the past two days because I've been taking him out every three hours and I give him time to empty his bladder. He's not as fast as he used to be...I just needed to be patient and give him more time. And not giving water several hours before bed has helped him sleep through the night.  He's also been pooping two times a day, which was what he did before. Yesterday, [3/24] he wagged his tail for the first time when he saw his dad. A tail wag is always nice, but we were absolutely thrilled to see this! I've been massaging his feet and legs and lower back with an electric toothbrush, which was a nice tip I read somewhere. He still can't walk at all, but even the smallest accomplishments feel good. Our first doctor follow up is on Tuesday the 29th. Again, so grateful for this website and forum!! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 25, 2022 20:01:59 GMT -7
Monica, always good to see a wag. Roscoe must be starting to feel more like himself! We'd love to know more about Roscoe since the day he was discharged.
SIGNS OF PAIN:
⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved ⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ ears pinned bac ⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions ⚙︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves
Is there any post-op pain surfacing near next dose of meds or when he has to move?
SURGEON DIRECTIVES?
What did the surgeon want for at home PT for his back legs? Which ones demoed in the video? Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog: For how many weeks does the surgeon want for post-op rest which includes at home PT? MEDICATIONS? What meds was Roscoe sent home on? The name of ea, the dose in mgs and how often you give. Is Roscoe's poop normal or constipated? Did you/are you using pumpkin? Depending on what medications he was sent home on, taking him out every 3 hrs could make perfect sense. POTTY TIME During potty time, this is a good way to keep Rosco's surgical areas safe whilst healing. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then keep to the amount of sling walking the neuro advised. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep and keep Roscoe from darting off An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no running around or darting off at a squirrel. dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Potty-leash-harness400-19kb.jpg **
NEURO STATUS
With bladder control the next neuro function to return will be ability to move the back legs. Tell us if you have observed any of these:
---- Can Rosco attempt to even push up on the back legs attempting a stand?
---- IF he has an itchy ear, will he attempt to scratch with back leg?
---- Can he reposition his body with any attempts to use his back legs?
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Post by Monica & Roscoe on Mar 27, 2022 15:19:51 GMT -7
SIGNS OF PAIN: For the first few days after surgery, he would tremble a little after I moved him, but it would settle pretty quickly and he's not doing it any more. He can get restless and needs help getting to a comfortable position sometimes since he can't move his back legs yet. Otherwise, he does not seem to be in pain at all. His personality is back more and more every day. He barked at a neighbor dog who was barking and definitely knows when it's dinner time and is sure to let me know.
SURGEON DIRECTIVES?
In my discharge instructions, they suggested PROM exercises 3-4 times a day for 5-10 minutes at a time. They said to wait until the follow up to see if the doctor thinks he's ready for acupuncture/laser therapy. I've been doing exercises, massages, and electric toothbrush massages. Thank you for that video! I wasn't doing all of those exercises so I'll add to our routine.
MEDICATIONS?
He was sent home on
Prednisone 2.5 mg (start with 1 every 12 hrs for 3 days, then 1 every 24 hrs for 3 days, then 1 every 48 hours) ,
Gabapentin 50 mg/3x day, and
Cefpodoxime (antibiotic) 100 mg 1/2 tablet every 24 hrs.
He hasn't had one mistake since I started taking him out every three hours. He sleeps through the night as long as I don't give him water for a few hours before bed.
NEURO STATUS
No, he Can't push up on his back legs yet
No, no scratching attempts yet.
any attempts to use his back legs? No, not yet.
While he can't use his back legs yet,
last night [3/27] we noticed he was dreaming and kept kicking one leg and his front and back paws were doing the "running" motion as he slept. He also kept wagging his tail while he was dreaming. A very small win, but we were so happy to see it.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 28, 2022 9:46:32 GMT -7
Monica! OMG you saved the best for last. Maybe you should have led with dreaming (head level) and hind end limbs doing a running motion with a happy tail wag. That is the best news of nerve repair going on -- really big win news! Roscoe is healing in classic textbook order. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 3/18 Surgery 1. √ 3/22 Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function. 2. √ 3/24 Tail wag at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. √ 3/25 Bladder control verified with the "sniff and pee" test 4. √ 3/27 Leg movement during dream, and then ___?__ ability to move up into a stand position, and then ___?__ wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the paw. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/ |
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Post by Monica & Roscoe on May 18, 2022 9:47:20 GMT -7
[Graduated April 15 from post-op rest] Hi! Just an update on Roscoe...he still can't stand or walk, BUT there is progress especially after we started doing some swimming. I got him a life jacket and took him to a pool and, at first, his hind legs didn't move. So, I pinched his toes and did a bicycle motion and his legs started paddling!! A lot! It was the most movement we've seen yet! We've been swimming as often as we can (we don't have a pool), which is usually 1-3x/week and it has helped tremendously! Now when we take him out to go potty, his hind legs do a walking motion. He isn't correcting his paws or putting weight down yet, but his legs are trying. We do a standing exercise with weight shifts every day with a yoga block and a rolled up towel. I also got an EMS machine for less than $100 to help with muscle stimulation. The progress is slow, but there is definitely progress so I wanted to update in case it helps anyone else! The water therapy has been the best thing for him yet!! |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 18, 2022 14:11:33 GMT -7
Glad to hear that Roscoe is making progress. Water therapy has helped a number of dogs on this list, including mine. Nerves are slow to heal, but heal they can.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 18, 2022 20:43:39 GMT -7
Monica, with his legs having the ability to move, but not strong enough against gravity, if you can investigate underwater treadmill if in your budget and available in your area. Swimming is the practice of swimming. Underwater treadmill is the practice of walking. See why that is in the video below. The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.
You can use the same principals of underwater treadmill water levels as explained in video above with an at home child's $10 plastic wadding pool. More on at home water therapy: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/
So sorry we missed getting to share April 15th graduation day with you. Hope these ideas will be helpful now and living with your IVDD survivor Roscoe the many years ahead! Rosco can learn to use a ramp to slide down:
Are you doing daily at home massage and range of motion for the back legs to keep the joints flexible and the muscles in condition for the time self-repaired nerves reconnect? Do as many exercises as Roscoe allows. As the nerves heal, there can be a point where Rosco will not like you moving his legs as he can do it for himself. Post-op PT for non-walking dog.
BACK FRIENDLY HOME IDEAS dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/LIVING WITH AN IVDD DOG How to handle dentals, nail trims for health and traction, and more : dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips GARMENTS TO PROTECT You will want to consider how you will prevent rug burns from scootingHere are some sew and no-sew options: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/13/garment-skin-uti-protection/ ** i.postimg.cc/6q8Cm3b6/garment-opitons.jpg
May we turn the tables and ask YOU for help? Did you know there are less than a handful who volunteer daily to help dogs and their owners? We need helping hands from other Forum members in educating. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Too many dogs are put to sleep because owners lack education about IVDD treatment. STRICT crate rest and proper medication have helped many dogs recover. We depend on all members to pay it forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate!
Pick what suits you....
We depend on you. Here are some ways to help.. -- When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas, Frenchies) give out our free little wallet cards. Hand carry our literature and print out our letter of introduction for your vet. -- Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions about surgery? We have a directory where you can share surgical info. State: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments:
Don't be a stranger! Stop in periodically. We really do love to hear how your dog is doing. We'd love a short video clip to see Roscoe in action at home, at PT and living & loving life in spite of IVDD! If you see a new member in a tough spot, give them hope. A brief paragraph about your dog can be insanely supportive and inspiring in a time of need! |
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Post by Monica & Roscoe on Sept 3, 2022 10:00:31 GMT -7
Hi there! Just another update on Roscoe since he is improving!
Swimming was a game changer and we do have him going to physical therapy and water treadmill weekly. We also do the EMS machine on each leg every day and that has helped with muscle atrophy quite a bit. While he cannot stand from a seated position, he CAN stand for short periods of time.
Also, I've been using pantyhose as a leg harness (cut a hole in each foot and put it around each leg...happy to provide pics, if you want any). It's cheap and has been very effective. With the pantyhose harness, I can give him a lot of slack and he'll walk several feet on his own before he needs me to pick up the slack. He's also correcting his paws and putting weight down. We still have a ways to go, but the progress is amazing to see.
I must say this website has been so incredibly helpful emotionally and educationally. It is probably the main reason I have continued working so hard for him. There was a time when I thought he'd never be able to stand again, but reading the stories here gave me such hope and so I kept going. The progress is so slow that I can see why people might give up, but because of this website and the hope I got from reading other's stories, I never did. I tell every doctor/therapist or anyone who asks about his progress about this site. It has been such a gift. THANK YOU!!!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Sept 3, 2022 13:09:35 GMT -7
So glad to hear how well Roscoe is doing. Water therapy has helped many dogs.
Nerve healing is slow, but clearly Roscoe continues to heal.
I love the idea of pantyhose as a sort of sling. Please do post a picture. Just look at the top right while editing or composing a post, and you will see the "add image to post button"
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He's also been pooping two times a day, which was what he did before. Yesterday, [3/24] he wagged his tail for the first time when he saw his dad. A tail wag is always nice, but we were absolutely thrilled to see this! I've been massaging his feet and legs and lower back with an electric toothbrush, which was a nice tip I read somewhere. He still can't walk at all, but even the smallest accomplishments feel good. Our first doctor follow up is on Tuesday the 29th. Again, so grateful for this website and forum!!