3/14 conservative -MiniAussie; GRAD 5/9

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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA

Posts: 19,935

3/14 conservative -MiniAussie; GRAD 5/9 Mar 14, 2022 15:46:42 GMT -7

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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2022 15:46:42 GMT -7

Welcome to the Dodgerslist IVDD Care and Support Forum! Is your dog Jai and you are Tosha?

Thank you for registering. Don't forget to set up email alerts whenever you get a reply.

Let us know your dog is not in any hint of pain. If you report signs when having to move or nearing then dose (gabapentin, methocarbamol), then that is because the pain meds need adjusting. They last for about 8 hrs.
--Advocate for gabapentin (nerve pain) and Methocarbamol (muscle contraction pain) be Rx'd for 3x/day.
-- Advocate for traMADol (general analgesic) if above is not providing full round the clock relief.
-- Advocate for GI tract protection today for the duration of Rimadyl! Stuff you want to know: WHY, how to ask your vet and the dose by weight here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/

Which if any are currently you seeing with 2 pain meds on board?

⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved

⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ arched back, ears pinned bac

⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position

⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions

⚙︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves

➕if a neck disc:

◻︎ head held high/ nose to the ground

◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily.

◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain

◻︎ holds front or back leg up flamingo style not wanting to bear weight

What date did you begin giving Rimadyl tablets?

Are you on the same page about STRICT rest?
    The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement).
    With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal.
    Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc.
    100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form.

▶︎ Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process

Knowledge is key!
Owner understanding ensures proper conservaitve treatment principals:
▶︎ 4 phases of healing, what it takes to heal each phase: dodgerslist.com/healing-the-disc/
▶︎ Roadmap for your fridge. Stay the course, avoid dangerous detours for the healing disc: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf

STRICT rest means:
◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you
◼︎no chiro therapy WHYs: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/
◼︎no meandering at potty times.
◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc
◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best.
    Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment.

POTTY TIME strictness
    Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps. Can you safely lift and carry 24 lbs? We have ideas, if 24lbs is too heavy for you.
    Here is how to lift and carry supporting both ends, keep back horizontal to the ground: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/20/back-support/
    Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over.
    A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot.
    An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!

dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Potty-leash-harness400-19kb.jpg

Has your dog had a history of windpipe problems before yesterday?

With her mild symptoms, she makes a very good candidate to heal the disc...the key is your playing an instrumental roll with good principals of conservative treatment. If your dog moves around too much, the disc cannot heal. With pain medications to mask pain, dogs will not be in pain and want to be more active. So it is up to you to restrict your dog’s activity for her.

Look forward to your answers and updates!

Last Edit: Apr 20, 2022 14:11:49 GMT -7 by PaulaM

Hi there Guests❗️ REGISTERING would help us to help you and your dog best: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread

PaulaM
Moderator.

Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA

Posts: 19,935

3/14 conservative -MiniAussie; GRAD 5/9 Mar 14, 2022 20:37:32 GMT -7

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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2022 20:37:32 GMT -7

Tosha, not sure what Sunday March 13th "as of 3/13" refers to. Use a noun/date in your sentence helps us have accurate information. We don't want to guess wrong on anything.

What country are you in?

Rimadyl inj on Sun. March 13.
What date did Rimadyl tablets start on?

Pain meds deal with pain only. Pain meds are adjusted only when pain is not being fully managed round the clock.

Neuro diminishment of weaker legs can be due to too much movement of the back defeating the purpose strict rest to protect the spinal cord.
    Know that Jai can still be a good candidate for conservative treatment with enforcing STRICT rest from this point on.
    As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order.
1. √ 3/13 Pain caused by the intial disc tear & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. √3/15 hind end wobbly walking, legs cross, reduced stabilig walking
3. ___ Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. ___ Paws knuckle under
5. ___ Very weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand
6. ___ Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. Tail wagging with joy is lost
9. Deep pain sensation (DPS), the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal with conservative treatment or after surgery. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy.
    Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap.
Good info to have under your belt NOW just in case:   A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery:
dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/

POTTY TIME OPTIONS if you are not able to safely carry to and from the potty place. Limiting footsteps is key for the disc to heal and avoiding injury to the spinal cord.
Tips and options: dodgerslist.com/2022/02/10/large-dog-care-tips-ivdd/

SURGERY - insurance
Jai's age is not likely a concern if a surgery were needed.
Insurance is your betting Jai does not have IVDD. Now that a vet has diagnosed IVDD and it is on record, I do not know of an insurance company that would cover anything related to IVDD. Read the fine print of you are pursuing any company.
With getting on board with complete STRICT rest 24/7 (only out of the recovery suite for potty time and the most urgent of vet visits) very likely Jai can heal her disc in 8 weeks and with time also heal the neuro diminishment of wobbly walking.

Highly recommended overview of disc disease. The more you know, the better care you can give. Shortcut thru IVDD: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/

When Jai graduates from STRICT rest on May 9, we will have lots of tips and ideas for living with her many happy years ahead. What things to encourage and what things to avoid.

MENTAL STIMULATION is TIRING
Adapt each activity so that it takes place inside of the recovery suite while you sit in front of the suite's open door. Stop if your Jai is getting over excited and displaying rambunctious behavior. She will be lying on the stomach or maybe quietly sitting on her butt.
Use your your dog's daily food ration as the rewards. Treats should be subtracted from the normal daily kibble ration so as not to gain weight during crate rest. Can also be Lo-cal treats of tiny pieces of apple or carrot. To dogs the size of the treat matters not. They work just as hard for a big piece as a tiny lower-cal piece.
Teaching self-calming exercises can help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior. Eye contact acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when your dog wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall.
To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a food reward.
[NOTE: for crate resting dogs, shift your body a bit to change your angle] .... wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later for another session until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give Jai her reward.

DOGS SMELL EMOTIONS
Remember to put a big smile on your face and in your voice and carry it in your heart while your dog is recovering! Dogs CAN smell when you are happy, sad or fearful because each emotion has a subtle change in your scent. Many times their behavior reflects our mood and they may even misinterpret our sadness and believe they have done something wrong. Everyone heals better in a positive energy environment. Relieve your dog's confusion and let her know you are on it and everything is as it should be. It is going to be OK from now on! SO, "put on a happy face!!" It will help not only you but also your sweet Jai!!

Every time you pass by her recovery suite and she is quietly sitting lying down, praise her with "good quiet" to let her know she's pleasing you.

Keep us updated on which potty time option you plan to use from now on since you are not able to safely carry Jai. ALSO is her poop constipated?

Last Edit: Mar 14, 2022 20:38:56 GMT -7 by PaulaM

Hi there Guests❗️ REGISTERING would help us to help you and your dog best: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread

PaulaM
Moderator.

Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA

Posts: 19,935

3/14 conservative -MiniAussie; GRAD 5/9 Mar 15, 2022 20:47:14 GMT -7

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Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2022 20:47:14 GMT -7

Tosha, that's a key question you asked about Rimadyl!
Understanding how the anti-inflammatory Rimadyl is used for a disc episode, means you'll know your roll when it comes to the test stop on Wed, March 23. This page will explain it all to you: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/

i.postimg.cc/LsxvB4pN/plan-b-SM.png *

With any Rimadyl STOP, it is always good to have worked out in advance a "PLAN B" should pain re-surface at night or on the weekend when your vet is not open. Would you let us know what the plan B you and your vet have worked out together?

Pain meds have the job of blocking pain of inflamed tissue. No one wants a dog on Rimadyl past the point of the benefit all pain is gone. Thus prudent for a vet to order 1 course and see if that was enough. On the STOP of the 10-day Rimadyl course to find out if all inflammation is actually gone, let us know which your vet prefers:
--- on 3/23 Rimadyl stop the pain meds will be also fully stopped?
--- on 3/33 Rimadyl stop the pain meds are to be backed down in mgs, frequency?

Rule of thumb on test STOP of RIMADYL

pain = swelling still exists

= back on another course of Rimadyl +pain meds + Pepcid AC

PEPCID AC: What is the dose in mgs and are you dosing 2x/day?

Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation.
--To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day.
-- To firm up the stool add 2 1/2 teaspoons plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day to kibble.

Give a teaspoon of pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight

Potty time is all about the fewest/minimal footsteps possible. When the spine moves it presses on the bad disc... not a good thing. Let us know if your patio area is limited to a 6 foot diameter area?

How is she getting to the potty area? Are you now carrying her to and from the suite?

What about that option to have a pee pad adjacent to her recovery suite, where she take a footstep or two on to the pad for her business?

There may be no company to insure against what you and vet know to exist: a pre-existing IVDD condition.
Maybe there is a company with higher premiums should known existing disease need a surgery??
Recommend asking on the Dodgerslist Facebook Page: www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist/ for the name of a pet insurance company that accepts pre-existing IVDD.

Is there a link to "Hip Life", not familiar with that product?

From now now Jai should be using a harness with a leash (collars are just to hang the tags on). No more steps/stairs, ramps from now on.

Last Edit: Mar 15, 2022 20:49:20 GMT -7 by PaulaM

Hi there Guests❗️ REGISTERING would help us to help you and your dog best: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread

Disclaimer:
This information is presented for educational purposes and as a resource for the IVD dog community. The coordinators are not veterinarians or health care professionals. Nothing herein should be interpreted as medical advice and all should contact their pet care professionals for advice. The coordinators are not responsible for the substance and content contained herein and do not advocate any particular product, item or position contained herein.

✔︎ HELP your dog FASTEST. Click link below to answer questions about your dog

3/14 conservative -MiniAussie; GRAD 5/9

Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2022 15:46:42 GMT -7

Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2022 20:37:32 GMT -7

Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2022 20:47:14 GMT -7