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Post by Ryan & Coco on Jan 27, 2022 10:55:48 GMT -7
Our just over 3 year old frenchie, Coco had emergency herniated disc surgery after experiencing paralyzation in her hind legs. The doctor said it was Category 5 when we spoke to him Tuesday morning before the surgery. We're less than 48 hours out of surgery she is still at the neurology vet until at least Saturday. Coco is doing the best she can, started eating, and still no sensation in her hind legs. Thankfully no signs of myelomalacia to this point and we hear from the doctor every morning. My wife and I are scared/nervous and are hopeful to bring her home on Saturday, and we're so thankful for this forum for guidance, help, and therapy. We're going to get more information tomorrow from the neurologist about post-op rest. Her surgery was in the afternoon of 1/25 and not sure on medications/doses for home yet. All we know if we'll have to su [ex]ppress her bladder 3 times a day. Thank you! Ryan
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 27, 2022 12:13:19 GMT -7
Ryan, welcome to the Dodgerslist IVDD Care and Support Forum!
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Jan 29, 2022 16:47:58 GMT -7
Coco’s home! We’ve been back for about a hour and a half and trying to figure out the best suite situation for her. I think we’re good as of now with an indoor playpen broken into two halfs with the top open. Not too big and not too small. I’ll share her dosages of meds a little later tonight or tomorrow.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 29, 2022 16:55:20 GMT -7
Sounds good to have your girl back home!!!
If you can, share a photo too of the play pen and of course any deep pain sensation (DPS) observance by the neuro, meds and that all pain is in control.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Jan 29, 2022 18:39:55 GMT -7
The neurologist had not found any sensation in hind legs as of this morning. We’re hopeful being home and in her own surroundings will aid in her recovery. Medications: 1) Acepromazine 10mg tab #21 - Give 1/2 tablet by mouth every 8-12 hours as needed for sedation. 2) Trazodone 50mg #42 - Give 1 tablet by mouth every 8-12 hours as needed for sedation. 3) Gabapentin 100 mg - Give 1 capsule by mouth every 8 hours. 4) Diazepam 5 mg - Give 1 tablet by mouth 30 minutes prior to bladder expression, 3 times daily. [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 24 lbs 3 y.o. gabapentin 100 mg 3x/day diazepam 5 mg 3x/day bladder relaxer Acepromazine 10mg tab: 50mgs 2-3x/day traZODone 50mg tab: 50mgs 2-3x/day ] Her bladder was expressed before we left the neurology clinic and once since we’ve been home. She’s also peed [overflowing bladder] twice in her recovery suite. Is that normal? i.postimg.cc/d0TwwnLh/Ryan-Coco-suite.jpg
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 29, 2022 19:09:48 GMT -7
Ryan, see that nice set up of a divide between the sleep area and a pee pad area! Since Coco does not yet have deep pain sensation back, she would not be able to pee. Her bladder overflows due to reflexes. When the bladder becomes very full and overstretched, reflex kicks in to let some but not all urine out. Beginners with expressing often need to start expressing every 2-3 hrs to keep a dog dry. When proficient in feeling the shape of the bladder and where it goes as it empties, AND she is staying dry, move to every 3-4hrs. With a weeks worth of expressing practice you can easily express every 4-6 hrs to keep her dry. And even dry with up to 8 hrs of sleep til next morning. If need be refresh yourself on the tips and ideas for expressing the bladder. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/Also learn how to express for poop. It is not the health issue the bladder is. Poop expressing is more to avoid Coco suffering any anxiety in finding poop where she sleeps.
No one will be able to tell you the timeline for return of deep pain sensation. Often the surgical procedure itself will cause a temporary setback with swelling. It may take a about 14 days for that painful swelling around the cord to subside and then you, the neuro and you local vet can better see the path of nerve healing.
While you or your local vet would not be the ones to correctly identify DPS, everyone can easily and correctly identify a happy tail wag.
1. Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function. 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the paw. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/
How much does Coco weigh?
We look forward to your next update and anything that crops up you'd like to know more about.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Jan 30, 2022 5:11:26 GMT -7
Thank you for all the information and we had a good first night back home. Coco slept comfortably all of the night and we have her on a good schedule for meds. Her tail wagged this morning when she saw me wake up and walk over to her suite. Coco weights about 24 pounds and I’ll continue to update throughout today.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jan 30, 2022 7:56:27 GMT -7
Tail wagging is a positive sign for Coco. As her nerves heals, you should see more signs of recovery. But be careful to not let her become too active and following the guidelines for crate rest is the best way to insure her chances for a return to her normal routine.
Keep us updated on her progress.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Jan 30, 2022 9:28:10 GMT -7
Thank you for the reply and we remain hopeful but at the same time vigilant in her crate rest for the next 2 weeks.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 30, 2022 13:09:00 GMT -7
Ryan, as Ann remarked, the happy tail wag due to seeing you is fabulous news!! The next neuro function to return will be bladder control. Here is how you monitor for it: SNIFF and PEE The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control or if the bladder is overflowing due to reflexes is with the “sniff and pee test.” Carry Coco outdoors periodically daily or every other day. Set her on an old pee spot to sniff. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder similar to the act of expressing her. See if she sniffs and if she will then release urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You would continue to do a quick express check. The check is to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe. For how many weeks does your surgeon want for post-op rest to let the surgery areas heal?
What did he direct for at-home PT on the back legs? Any of the ones demoted in the video below? Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain those muscles with lost nerve connection and keep the joints flexible.
Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog: Thank you for your kind support to Heather.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 1, 2022 12:27:58 GMT -7
Coco is doing well, she barked at UPS knocking at the door from her suite and started to whine at us not paying attention to her. She won’t be cleared for PT until her follow up on 2/14. Other than that she is progressing well.
What are the best doggy wipes to clean her up after using the bathroom on her wee wee pad? Thank you and we’ll keep everyone in the loop with all things Coco.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 1, 2022 13:52:39 GMT -7
A moderator here came up with a great clean up solution.
Brew some decaffeinated green tea and let it cool.
Use some unscented baby wipes dipped in the tea.
It neutralizes urine and leaves a fresh clean scent.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 1, 2022 16:25:13 GMT -7
Wow, this is one of the coolest DIY things I’ve ever heard!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 1, 2022 18:42:24 GMT -7
Ryan, thank you for again helping another! Wonderful to hear she is progressing well. Ya know, we are a group who LOVE the detail! What notable thing(s) have you been observing? Yes, the decaf green tea is a handy thing to brew up. IF you find you need a bit more absorbency than baby wipes, check the dollar store. Look for inexpensive washcloths, where you can keep a stack handy by Coco's pee pad area. Just dampen a washcloth with the cooled tea to wipe the belly and genital area and legs. Really does leave a nice earthy fresh scent. Tea is mild with acidifying, antibacterial properties to neutralize urine. The remaining tea can then be stored in the refrigerator and warmed before use. This tip and many other good ones comes from our supply list at the Main Dodgerslist web site. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/ i.postimg.cc/rp9HtMR1/Dog-care-TIPS-400.jpg White vinegar in a spray bottle is good to disinfect and remove the urine ammonia smell from floors, etc.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 2, 2022 12:18:44 GMT -7
Some details are Coco has barked at the snow plow, whines when I go shower or go throw out the trash. She also cries when my wife leaves for work or the gym. We’re happy about all that because she is getting used to her surroundings again.
She has been eating well and I used the poop video from an earlier post to help her get out some fecal matter. We’re still learning the bladder expression but making progress day by day. Does the urine smell because Coco is on a lot of meds? It isn’t sour smelling and is yellow with no signs of blood/inconsistencies, so not thinking a UTI.
As always thank you for the feedback and we’re in this together!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 2, 2022 14:01:04 GMT -7
I am happy to hear that Coco is getting used to her familiar surroundings again.
Excellent job on expressing for poop! Being able to do this will make things easier for you and Coco.
It could be a UTI. UTI's occur more frequently in dogs that need to be expressed despite our best efforts. Not all UTI's cause dark colored or bloody urine. Consider geting a urinalysis to rule out the need for antibiotics. In most cases, a urine sample can be dropped off at the vet's office for testing.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 2, 2022 15:38:08 GMT -7
Us too and thank you for the info on the UTI we’ll give our local vet a call tomorrow morning and ask about dropping off a sample.
Also, has anyone had the experience of attempting bladder expression with no luck, but within 5-10 minutes after setting her back in the recovery suite, she [reflex overflowing or brain directed urine release?] urinates on her pee pad? Are we not trying to express her long enough?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 2, 2022 16:00:44 GMT -7
Peeing shortly after an expression attempt sometimes happens. Expressing is a skill that must be practiced. It took me some time to learn to express my dog Frankie before he regained bladder control.
You could try expressing and if not successful stop and then try again 5 minutes later. Some members have used a warm towel on the dog's stomach to help them relax.
Another thing to consider is that Coco may be regaining bladder control. Bladder control is usually the next step in healing following a happy tail wag. When a dog starts to regain control, they often resist being expressed. After an attempt at expressing that is unsuccessful, consider bringing Coco outside to "sniff and pee". If she then releases urine, you will know that bladder control is returning. You should also do an express check afterwards until you are sure she can completely empty her bladder.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 2, 2022 18:13:31 GMT -7
That’s great to know and it’s rarely been at night. She stays dry completely overnight. The bulk of her pee is during the day on the wee wee pad. We just got a big snow storm in Michigan, so may have to wait to do the sniff test.
I appreciate all of the suggestions and we’ll keep everyone posted!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 2, 2022 21:46:27 GMT -7
Ryan, if you have a deck, you could set up a little area for the sniff and pee test there with an ex-pen or other blocked off area. i.postimg.cc/MZrsPYQb/pottytime-deck.jpg ** Brain directed terms are: peeing, urininating Reflex caused term is: overflowing bladder Give the sniff and pee test every other day or so, as that is the next neuro function to return. Look for the Jan 30 post above for the details about "Sniff and Pee"
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 4, 2022 16:47:28 GMT -7
Friday, 2/4 Coco update: we called her neurologist [2/3] yesterday and after discussing it he prescribed an ✙anti-biotic [Amox-Clav 500- 125 milligram tablet. She gets a half pill every 12 hours] for a UTI.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 24 lbs 3 y.o. gabapentin 100 mg 3x/day diazepam 5 mg 3x/day bladder relaxer Acepromazine 10mg tab: 50mgs 2-3x/day traZODone 50mg tab: 50mgs 2-3x/day ✙Amox-Clav: 62.5mg 2x/day ]
She’s on her second day and seems to be feeling much better. She also is becoming more of herself everyday with barking at the tv when dogs come on and trying to stand up which we are slowing her down now.
We’re cautiously optimistic on her signs of improvement and looking forward to her post-op in 10 days! We’ll keep everyone posted throughout the weekend and appreciate all of your knowledge and love.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 4, 2022 17:12:09 GMT -7
Ryan, good job in following up with your neuro for a possible UTI! Bladder infections can make a dog feel pretty crummy. Glad to hear already Coco is feeling more like her normal self!!
Have you been able to do a sniff and pee test? Results?
We are continuously learning about things when members share details. Would you help to add to our knowledge base by letting us know the exact name of the antibiotic and how many mgs is each dose and how often? Thanks bunches!
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 5, 2022 7:35:12 GMT -7
Thankfully so far, so good! We tried the pee and sniff test and no luck, but it was very cold, so we’re trying again soon.
For the UTI, Coco has been prescribed Amox-Clav 500- 125 milligram tablet. She gets a half pill every 12 hours.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 9, 2022 15:11:01 GMT -7
We’re 15 days out from Coco’s surgery on the afternoon of 1/25. It was in the 40s today in Michigan, so we tried the sniff and pee test with Coco right outside our front door. I am happy to report that she sniffed and peed! I started crying as she was using the bathroom and know this is a good step to her recovery. We brought her back upstairs and gave her a treat, and put her back in the recovery suite.
We’re going to finish out her anti-biotic for the UTI and she’s almost done with the Gabapentin too. She’s still on sedatives as well and we’ve been giving them to her as prescribed.
Appreciate the replies and we’ll be looking for some more!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 9, 2022 15:25:16 GMT -7
Wonderful news that Coco was able to sniff and pee! Bladder control is returning. Usually, bowel control is regained around the same time as bladder control. This is not always the case, though. My dog, Frankie regained bladder control months before he regained bowel control.
Below are the typical stages of healing:
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) YES 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. YES 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. YES Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 9, 2022 15:33:08 GMT -7
Hooray for Coco!! She's definitely a fighter. That's amazing progress.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 13, 2022 7:00:14 GMT -7
Good Morning! Happy Sunday and I wanted to give a weekend Coco update. She goes tomorrow, 2/14 for her post op with the neurologist. We’re excited and anxious to hear from the doctor about Coco’s progress and to get her staples removed too.
She finished her two weeks of Gabapentin yesterday as well as her 10 days of Amox-clav for her UTI. Today is the first day since before her surgery that she hasn’t taken any medication. We haven’t given her a sedative since last night too.
It is really cold here and she hasn’t peed outside the last couple of days we took her out. Is this concerning or just keep trying? Thank you again for the replies and advice.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Feb 13, 2022 8:07:57 GMT -7
Thanks for the update on Coco. I hope she gets a good report from the vet.
You mentioned that Coco has not peed outside. Is she peeing inside on a pee pad? Or are you able to express her bladder? Is she leaking pee? If her bladder hasn't been emptied for "a couple days" that is a problem and could lead to another UTI.
A little more detail on Coco's peeing situation would be helpful to assess what options you have.
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Post by Ryan & Coco on Feb 13, 2022 9:18:07 GMT -7
Thank you! She peed outside a couple times a day Wednesday-Friday. Yesterday, it was only on the pee pad as well as this morning on her own all in her recovery suite. She hasn’t been interested outside yesterday and today so far. It is very very cold here though.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Feb 13, 2022 9:38:01 GMT -7
Good! I was worried that she wasn't peeing.
It's not unusual for a dog to be adverse to peeing in cold weather. When a dog is healthy, it's okay to encourage them to go outside to do "business". But during recovery from surgery, it's best not to put her under too much stress. If she's more comfortable, for the moment going on pee pads, I wouldn't worry about it.
Hopefully the weather will improve and she'll be more comfortable spending time outside to pee.
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