Harris' River 8/2 surgery cockapoo.

Hi, Harris. Glad to hear that River's wobbly walking and progressing well. When you say that River has regressed in her bowel movements, do you mean that she's regressed since the surgery? Was she doing better right after the surgery than she is now with her bowels? Or has she had problems since the surgery and her injury? Does she poop as she walks - just falls out of her? Does River have bladder control?

Usually, bladder and bowel control return before the leg movements. But with my Jeremy, he's walking again but never did regain full control over his bladder and bowels. Nerves are still healing and it can take many weeks, months, even a year or more for them to improve. It's still early days for River, only being a matter of weeks since her surgery. Hopefully, you'll see improvement in her bowel control as time goes on.

You can learn to express River's bowels, which will help decrease the number of accidents. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm I express Jeremy's bowels twice a day, around noon and again before bed. It's a matter of learning when your dog usually has a bowel movement and expressing about a half an hour before that.

As for the drinking and panting a lot, since she's not on any medication, it may be due to anxiety. Is she still being kept on crate rest and is she anxious in the crate? Does she have any signs of pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, nose held to the ground, head held up high, tight hard tummy, holding leg up flamingo style, not wanting to bear weight on the leg?

Just keep an eye on her and observe if she's having any other regressions or pain and if so, contact your vet. I was told that the nerves are sort of hit or miss while healing after surgery and sometimes they fire correctly and sometimes not. I know my Jeremy tends to start pooping as he stands up and walks more than when he's lying still so maybe River is having more accidents because she's moving about more as she heals from the surgery.

Good for you on the rescue work - it's very much needed in our society. I volunteer with Rescue Ridge here in NJ. River is a beauty! Is she a Cocker Spaniel?

Hi Harris,

Love your website and your video about the reason you started Stewie to the Rescue! Stewie would be so proud of you! He would not want you to feel guilty..No one knows what makes dogs dart out...but we do know they are spur of the moment creatures..You are doing an enormous amount of good with your rescue, great for your healing but think of the healing you are doing for those you rescue, both dogs and people.. Stewie would want you to live with joy for the moment, and every moment thereafter...

River is still healing as Marjorie mentioned to you.  Can you give us more information on River on her surgery, and her initial IVDD episode that led to her surgery?  So we can be of better help to you?  Please read:  www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm and also order our DVD to share with others who may have a breed predisposed to IVDD.  www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm

Panting can be anxiety as Marjorie mentioned in her post but it can also be a sign of pain..I think it would be a good idea to have her rechecked by her surgical vet to see if he can pinpoint what is going on with the thirst, panting and the bowel issues..

Post op crate rest of 6 weeks is imperative to prevent further injury to the healing disc..Many dogs don't like their crates if they haven't been brought up with one.. I got lucky because Tyler was nursed by his Mama in a crate and he has always retreated to his whenever he wanted quiet time or a place of comfort..  He is in the midst of a mild IVDD episode now..and will be off crate rest the 9th of Sept..and then we will leave his crate door open once again.. Always have the crate near you or Josie so River still feels close to you and reach in and pet often, as I know you will..

Here's to you and River..let the healing continue!

Hi, again Harris.  Pauliana is a moderator of this group and has much more experience than I do so she's the one to listen to!  Since the bowel control seems to be getting worse and is of concern to you, it certainly wouldn't hurt to call the surgeon and run it by him/her, as well as the panting and thirst.  I did say the panting could be from anxiety but it could be anxiety due to pain.  Dogs are so good at hiding their pain from us.  Surgeons usually follow up after surgery for at least three months so a re-check at this time may very well be in order.

My Jeremy was given a 50/50 chance before surgery (no DPS) and then was given a head shaking slowly side to side as to whether he would ever walk again.  It took many months but Jeremy did walk again.  You're doing a great job with River and it's showing! 

Please let us know what the surgeon says.

My Jeremy walked again but never did regain bowel or bladder control. It was just that River's bowel control seemed to be getting worse that was of concern.

I found that Jeremy's healing would reach a certain plateau and he would seem to level off and I wouldn't see any improvement for a week or two. And then improvement would start again. Nerves can take such a long time to heal and I continued seeing improvements in Jeremy over a year after his surgery.

Good job on doing therapy and the water therapy. That can be very helpful. How's her panting and thirst?

Harris, I read your blog and one thing is of concern.  River should still be on crate rest, only being taken out to do physical therapy, go to a vet and to do her business.  She should not be going on walks yet.  Her graduation day for crate rest is September 13, 2013, which is six weeks after her surgery.

The surgeons at TAMU explain the why of crate rest best:

Many clients are confused as to why exercise restriction is often necessary after spinal cord injury in veterinary patients. Vertebral column injury and surgery can disrupt the normal stabilizing structures of the spine such as muscles, bone, joint capsules, and the intervertebral disk. Excessive, unrestricted activity after surgery or certain injuries can lead to vertebral column destabilization and prolonged healing of the injury site. The intervetebral disk, in particular, is very slow to heal and healing may be incomplete; excessive vertebral column motion after disk surgery may therefore lead to recurrence of disk herniation. Additionally, animals that are weak or incoordinated may accidentally traumatize themselves, leading to orthopedic and soft tissue injuries.

It's very early days for River, having only had the surgery a month ago. Just because my Jeremy didn't regain his bladder or bowel control doesn't mean that River won't. However, nerves take a long time to heal and it could be months before you see any improvement.

It doesn't sound like you're expressing River, just getting her out fast enough for her to go outside and not always making it. You should learn to express her bladder, even if she's going herself. Sometimes they don't empty their bladder completely and any urine remaining in the bladder is a breeding ground for infection. Urine infections are quite common and can be very serious. You can put her on a pee pad and express her there or on a rubber mat in the bathtub. I use a small pan that I put under Jeremy and just wash that out. If she's peeing as soon as she stands up, put her on a pee pad that will absorb the pee so she doesn't track it. And express right where she stands. And as I mentioned before, bowels can be expressed too and it's not as messy as it sounds.

Learning to express both River's bowels and bladder will make life a lot simpler for you. And it's better for River, too. Here's the link again about expressing.

www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

Good luck with it!

Harris, the only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.

Usually bladder and bowel control will return at relatively the same time. If she does not have bowel control you CAN express for poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poop

Harris, most of the herbal supplements you'll find online are for incontinence difficulties due to other reasons, such as age or weak bladders. River's incontinence is caused by nerve damage - the nerves aren't communicating correcting between her brain and her bladder/bowels. So she doesn't know when she has to go. Herbs will not cure nerve damage. Time may cure the nerves and allow them to heal. You might also want to try acupuncture or laser therapy to help heal the nerves.

Here are the supplements recommended by Dodgerslist:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htm

If you do decide to try any herbs, be careful as not all herbs are safe and can have side effects. Be sure before you try anything that you run it past your vet and that it's safe for use with dogs. I tried just about everything with Jeremy, Chinese herbs, horsetail tea, corn silk. None of it helped; in fact, some of it made the problem worse as they acted as a diuretic and only created more urine.

If she's only peeing when you are putting a towel/sling under her, you may be expressing her with the towel/sling.  You're pressing on her bladder, which is all expression is.  Have you had any luck trying to express her in the house?

Hi, just chiming in. Glad you're going to try regular acupuncture. I believe the electric and regular helped my dog's bladder control return more quickly. Also, ask your vet about giving your pup one sardine (plain, packed in water only) for lunch. They contain lots of omega-3's which control inflammation.

I also really do recommend simply expressing River's poop. I express my dog's poop each morning and then again right before bed (if he has one ready, lol). It is clean and easy, don't worry. I simply lift my dog's tail, place my thumb and middle finger on either side of the skin around his anus (NOT on the anus itself, never comes into contact), and massage in a puckering motion until I feel a hardness start to come - that is the poop making its way through the rectum. Keep massaging and the anus will open and the poop will come out. Wash your hands and you're done.

Please let us know how things go. Best wishes, ~Lisa

Harris, I also express for poop.  It's easy and quick.  check out the video below again.

Harris, a regression could possibly mean another disc problem. Is she showing any signs of pain at all? Has this been sudden or gradual? To be safe, you should crate her and restrict her movements until you can get her into a vet to be examined.

Please let us know what the vet says.

Yes, conservative care (100% strict crate rest & meds) can be tried before surgery. This webpage details the factors where surgery would be a consideration and also shows a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

Sometimes a disc can have a slight tear instead of a full rupture and it causes mild symptoms. However, a mild tear can worsen with movement.  dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm

Keep a close eye on her. Dogs can be very good at hiding pain. Usual signs of pain are shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, nose held to the ground, head held up high, tight hard tummy, not their usual, perky selves.

Keep us updated on how she does. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.