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Post by Ken & Hank on Sept 2, 2021 18:13:27 GMT -7
What a wonderful site! Here is an introduction to my little man Hank. ☆ 1 As far as I can tell he is not in any pain.☆ 2 28 lbs. He’s a solid one, but coincidentally he only eats maybe 3/4 cup a day at most A.. Hank is currently not on any medication. He was on 5 mg prednisone twice per day for one week post op and then every other day for 3 days. The neurologist took him off of it because it was causing some GI tract bleeding. ☆ 3 --Eats and drinks fine. His poop is normal, but in the past three days he has developed a habit of eating all poop before I can even clean it, which is becoming a problem. He was going outside, but has stopped doing that and now waits for me to leave the room, he poops, then eats it:( This was never an issue before and he hasn’t been yelled at for it. His little butt still bleeds a tiny bit. It just appears to be “raw”. ☆ 4 3 yr 10 month old French bulldog, “Hank”. I’m Ken ☆ 5 yes, acute ruptured disc at L5/L6 late on August 9 and emergency surgery on August 10. -- yes, surgeon was acvim neurology ☆ 6 Surgery was on August 10. Hank presented with acute onset August 9 at 10 PM. By 4 am on August 10 he couldn’t use his back legs and dps was “questionable” -Two to four months of isolation, but I was not directed for “strict crate rest” as described in here. -- Directed to start or attempt walks immediately, three times a day, and perform at home PT two to three times a day. Mostly muscle massage, range of motion, and standing exercises. ☆ 7 Yes, he has bladder control now but does have accidents at night. Generally not during the day though. ☆ 8 He does not walk at all (he does with the hind sling, but he doesn’t attempt to use his back legs). According to the neurologist and PT, he has deep pain sensation. He can stand on his back legs and he now sits “properly”. He can get up, but is wobbly. He is definitely getting stronger and more stable while standing. The neurologist and PT also claimed they saw him attempt to use his back legs, but that he is just too weak now. However, I’ve never seen any effort to actually swing a back leg, nor has he ever pulled one away with any stimulation.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,589
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 2, 2021 21:04:41 GMT -7
Ken, welcome to the Forum! We are glad you found us and are finding it a good place to get support for Hank's care. Many surgeons do call for PT and 4 weeks of rest to give the surgical sites times to rest. Depending on the case a surgeon may want 6 weeks of rest. Then with graduation from rest with PT, a dog can begin to transition slowly over the course of several weeks be back to his normal activities around the house and the back yard. Some time for freedom again, of course, taking into consideration he was born with IVDD. Ask the surgeon if 4 weeks of supervised PT and post op rest is a go now to gradually work up into his new family life routine. We have lot's to share with you when we know post-op rest is over. With a few days over 4 weeks since the surgery, appears Hank is going in a good direction of of healing. No one can tell you when he would self heal enough nerves to bring walking function back. But there is a step by step return of function that is pretty typical. This way you will know what is next in line for Hank and how far he has come!1. √ Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly identify first neuro function. 2. _ ?_ Butt wriggling happiness since there is not tail to wag for a Frenchie (with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.) 3. √ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Surgeon observed Leg Movement, and then ____ ability to move up into a standing position, and then ____ wobbly walking. 5. ____ Being able to walk with more steadiness and ____ properly place the knuckled under paw 6. ____ Ability to walk with back legs w/o sling assistance and perhaps even run. LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/EATING Has anything changed about his food or treats? There’s a scientific name for this poop-eating habit— coprophagia (kop-ruh-fey-jee-uh). Google it and discuss with your vet if he has an idea other than you beating Hank to do a clean up. Chart his eat time and poop times. That will help you to see the pattern and beat him to the punch. Also you can easily feel if the poop is nearing the exit...you won't need to proceed and express the poop out. You are just checking if anything is approaching within 30-60 mins. BLADDER CONTROL Do you give him his last drink of the night about an hour or two before you go to bed. That way right at bedtime, he can get a potty break and hopefully have a dry night. UNDERWATER TREADMILL Since he has bladder control AND the surgeon saw some attempt at leg movement, if treadmill therapy is in the budget and in your area, you should highly consider checking it out for Hank. The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again. The video explains more why this is an important therapy and how it is done.
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Post by Ken & Hank on Sept 3, 2021 17:51:46 GMT -7
Wow Paula, thank you so much for the response and helpful information. You’re awesome!!!
overall I’m optimistic with his progress. He went from completely flaccid back there to now being able to stand on his own. He was never a butt wriggler so I have no basis for judgment on that criteria.
One thing I’ve noticed over the last two days is his leg muscles are twitching or having spasms occasionally. I see that spasm can be a sign of pain for some dogs, but inthis case I’m confident it’s his leg muscles themselves. Curious if you’ve heard of that before and/or if it might be related to the healing process of the spinal cord (e.g, partially firing, like a sputtering engine). He has his neurologist follow up on Tuesday so I’ll have them check it out too.
Going to try the food additive that makes poop taste bad. Seems like it’s a 50/50 shot o worth a try. I had figured out that his digestive time from food to poop is 15 hours. Worked well for a while and then we missed one potty outside and he went inside and ate it. That just started a vicious cycle. Thank you for the advice on how to tell when he’s going to go. I though maybe putting him in his crate at night might prevent it, but I think it might just make him end up covered in it in the morning? He’s in a more spacious play pen now. Historically he’s never ever gone in his crate, but I don’t think he has full control right now.
Have an eval with an awesome licensed PT next Thursday. Absolutely going to do the water treadmill and whatever else he recommends. Fortunately he’s covered by insurance. Only possible problem with the water treadmill is he is completely terrified of water. Shakes uncontrollably during all baths and even just hearing the noise of the sprinkler:) Hopefully he’ll adjust, I just worry he’ll hurt himself, but I would imagine a well trained PT deals with it all the time.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,589
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 4, 2021 9:05:25 GMT -7
Ken, we would love to learn the explanation from the neuro about the back leg muscle twitches in Hank's case.
Could you tell us a bit more about what "stand on his own" means:
--- Can he push up (or attempt to push up) with his back legs to get up into a stand? Ability to push up would be a neuro function increase and an improvement..
--- Can he only remain in a stand position once you have helped him stand? The act of staying in a stand could well be a natural reflex that allows him to remain standing.
Let us know which food additive you used and what results you observe about the poop issue.
Ken, maybe bring a favorite toy in case the PT person might use as distraction from the water. Many members have reported their dog's dislike of water was not a problem in the treadmill. Fingers crossed in the hands of your PT person, Hank will be OK to concentrate on his leg movement with a moving floor. Let us know how it goes and if you are allowed in the room, maybe a show us a picture of Hank in the tank?
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Post by Ken & Hank on Sept 4, 2021 16:04:23 GMT -7
Will do with the neurologist twitch explanation. It’s interesting, it goes away for a few hours after we do our little PT session. I’ve also noticed that his legs feel “stiffer”; eg harder to do range of motion.
He can stand up on his own, albeit he’s pretty shaky when he does it. But I noticed yesterday and today he stood up on his own to poop in his play pen area. When I stand him up and put his feet in the right place he’s much more stable.
Will keep you posted on the poop eating deterrent!
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Post by Ken & Hank on Sept 11, 2021 18:18:30 GMT -7
Quick update on some of the follow up questions. Both the neurologist and the physical therapist said the leg spasms were normal and a positive sign. His legs have also become pretty stiff due to muscle contractions. As it was explained to me, my understanding is the nerves that run from the back to the the legs are getting signals again intermittently. The nerves are telling the muscles to contract, but the nerves that tie “control” of the legs to the brain aren’t firing yet. Hence kind of random spasms and motor control.
On the poop eating front, I decided not to go with the food additives because the more I researched them it seemed a lot of pups were having diarrhea as a side effect, which would be even worse. Not sure why I didn’t think about it before but I ended up just getting him reusable diaries and I built suspenders to keep them on.
Had his formal eval with his new PT and he starts on Monday. I liked his approach. Will see where things go and put in some updates as things progress!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,589
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 12, 2021 8:34:46 GMT -7
Hank, thanks for relaying the explanation. Hopefully the 9/13 start of PT will help keep the back legs flexing til the brain makes connection to leg nerves.
Sounds, then that, Hank is all set to be graduated from crate rest and begin a slow and gradual transition back to family life at home, too?
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Post by Ken & Hank on Sept 12, 2021 17:26:44 GMT -7
Yes, the neurologist said it was ok for him to be out in carpeted rooms:) Hank is very excited to start feeling normal again!!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,589
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 13, 2021 7:48:59 GMT -7
Ken, well then, congratulations on Hank's graduation back to family life! See if there are any ideas for now and in the future you can incorporate for living many happy years ahead with Hank. GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION to family life and activities Determine how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free riegn of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. At home, the figure eight sling will keep wobbly Hank from falling whenever you do some sling walking PT on carpeted areas and when you take him outdoors to potty. A harness would also be used as control to keep Hank from over exuberance of darting off at a squirrel, etc. A rear sling is used as back up to catch a wobbly dog's butt and prevent twisting the back. A figure 8 DIY sling works especially well for the male dog anatomy at potty times. Here is a sample schedule idea to slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/?highlight=sample%20scheduleMake your home back friendly with ramps instead of stairs, blocking off furniture and training to keep all four paws on the ground: dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backsLots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips GARMENTS to PROTECT You will want to consider how you will prevent rug burns from scooting til wobbly Hank is more reliable in perfecting his gait. Here are some sew and no-sew options: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/13/garment-skin-uti-protection/
Ken, education about disc disease is our number one mission! We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Too many dogs have been put to sleep because owners lack education about IVDD treatment. STRICT crate rest and proper medication has helped many dogs recover. We would like all of our members to pay it forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate! Pick what suits you....
We depend on you. Here are some ways to help... -- Please celebrate Hank's graduation! Add a graduation photo and a short caption to our Gallery to give other members inspiration about your IVDD Survivor! dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/add-dog-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-- "Share" our FB posts www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist-- When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas, Frenchies) give out our free little wallet cards. Hand carry our literature and print out our letter of introduction for your vet. Ask Linda to send you a free brochure packet for your vet and wallet cards for you: dodgerslist.com/free-literature-2/---- Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions about surgery? We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendationsState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: Don't be a stranger! Stop in periodically. We really do love updates. We'd love a short video clip to see Hank in action at home, PT and living and loving life in spite of IVDD! |
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