Diana's Pea 7/15 Conservative Schnoodle NECK Singapore

Dear Diana, welcome to Dodgerslist. Your little guy has been through a lot. The first thing I need to point out to you is that his confinement area is too large. He should be in a crate or ex-pen that is only big enough for him to stand up, turn around and lie down with his legs out straight. He can walk around too much in the area he's in and the disc can re-tear.

100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.

The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal.

Who told you that he might need to be confined until Christmas? And what would be the reason for that? The disc takes 8 weeks of crate rest to heal and scar over. At that point, he should gradually be reintroduced to walking again to build up his muscles and stamina.

As for carrying him out with you while you do errands, it's not a good idea. The crate is the safest place for him. He should only be carried in and out to do potty and to the vet. You can put casters on his crate and move him outside to get some fresh air and wherever you are in the house so he can be with you. Or carry him to a crated area outside.

As for potty time, you can use a small ex-pen outside or just put some push in the ground type of short fencing to make a small area for Pea to do his business in to limit the amount of steps he takes. Also use a short leash with a harness to restrict his movements. He should only be taking a few steps to do his business.

I'm not familiar at all with the pain medications that Pea is currently taking. There should be no signs of pain between doses of medication. If you see pain starting close to the next dose, then the dose needs to be adjusted by the vet. Pain can inhibit the healing process. From your blog, it sounds as though Pea hasn't had any pain since 7/23. Is that correct?

You can take cardboard, punch some holes around the sides and attach it with string to the inside of the crate or ex-pen to lower the top to prevent Pea from jumping up.

I'm also giving you a link to a page where you can learn some more tips about dealing with a cervical disc episode:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm

Dodgerslist website contains so much information that you need to read up on. Please go through the website and read, read, read so you can become knowledgeable about IVDD. Here are some links to get you started. Please click on all of them to get a good background of understanding.
www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm
www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm

I see from your blog that Pea is receiving acupuncture treatments. Very good decision on your part as acupuncture can be very helpful. Pea has a lot going on in his spine and his movements needed to be restricted more to prevent more tearing of the discs and to rest his spine and let the discs scar over. Know that we're here for you with any questions or concerns and to support you through this. All the best to you both.

Hi Marjorie, thank you for your detailed response. The pens are at 1m in width and they are the smallest I can get. He doesn't actually move around much in it except he stands when we get back. The vet also says a room is too large but a pen like that is fine. I suppose I can get him a pre-constructed pen which will be smaller but he already is comfortable in this and he really honestly doesn't move much.

He has been introduced to walking since he became pain-free on 23 July because he needs potty time. The vet says to crate for at least 8 weeks but I am extending that to 16 weeks or more until Christmas because I want to "play it safe". My mom's place where he resides for 4 days a week isn't the most conducive environment as there is a very, very frisky, high-energy terrier there who lords over the kingdoms of sofas, couches and beds and jumps whenever and whenever he likes. My dog will follow his old habit of jumping on the couch together with the terrier. I am also going away for 10 days to Italy and would like him to be crated. My mom can't take instructions very well and won't take care of my dog unless I have him crated continually.

Understand. I will leave him at home then when I go out. The reason why I bring him along is because I want to prevent him from jumping when we get back.

Starting from this morning, I have started picking him more quickly to prevent the extra few steps taken by him.

Yes, no pain after we stopped the 10-day Vitamin B and Vitamin C injections through his catheter. No more knuckling, no tense stomach or trembling after that.

You can take cardboard, punch some holes around the sides and attach it with string to the inside of the crate or ex-pen to lower the top to prevent Pea from jumping up.
Will try it tomorrow when I get home. Tonight we get home late as we have acupuncture.

Thanks, he is seeing a very well-known acupuncture specialist now but I intend to switch after the meds stop due to a number of reasons, the top-most being that my dog seems allergic to it. He is scratching NON-stop until he bleeds and we make him don a shirt now. The other acupuncture contact I have practices at the same clinic where Pea got the 2nd opinion (recovery) from. The equipment is newer and all the doctors practice a holistic, non-steroid treatment program.

I live in Singapore.

Unfortunately I don't have the name of the herbal treatment.

No more sign of pain. He is behaving like nothing happened on 12 July.

Yes, I am now aware it is large. I have responded to Marjorie that it is the smallest pen I can find. The doctor says the size is fine too. I am confused now. But he doesn't move much in it except stand when he hears that we are back. We tried pee pads but they don't work. He needs potty time at the grass or in the bathroom.

Sorry, one more question. Pea stinks easily because he leaks and chews himself all over. I didn't know about the no-baths rule. Can we continue that? I put him on an anti-slip mat on the even floor and I don't move him around when I bathe him.

It seems more likely that Pea would be having an allergic reaction to whatever herbal treatment he's on than to the acupuncture.

Baths are not recommended while on crate rest, Diana. Dogs are way too slippery to hold on to and the risk of slipping and falling is too great. I had a lot of success using green tea to wash Jeremy with during crate rest. Yes, green tea! Just make up a pot and use a sponge to wash Pea down. Green tea neutralizes the urine and helps with the smell and the acidity of the urine, which causes urine burn.

Good morning to all,

Pea woke up with "knee-jerk" reaction on his right paw which is the paw that knuckled a few weeks ago when he was in pain. I'm not sure what that is about. He wasn't yelping. The "jerks" look like involuntary reactions and lasted for a few seconds. We didn't visit the acupuncturist last evening as the session was cancelled.

The reason why I don't know the name of the herb is because the vet speaks only Mandarin and he dispenses his herbs from a little drawer without any formal note on it. I'd ask him again to write the name down for me when I next see him and I'd check the translation for it. My husband has told me to go back to the place where Pea "became pain-free" from - the second opinion holistic centre. We both feel that it is wiser to be consulting with a doctor who can do both acupuncture and advise us in skin / diet / other issues. His current herbal medication will last for another two weeks more. I supplement his food with cranberry capsule every morning. Does anyone have any recommended cranberry capsule I can order from iherb? I'm trying to keep my expenses low and it seems iherb offers more affordable alternatives.

My mom carries him to the bathroom at about 2pm for a potty break but he is usually stubborn and refuses to do so. He waits for me to be back at 7pm for potty break outside. (We live in an apartment.)

Last night I brought him home because my mom refuses to bring him for potty break at 11pm. My mom and I live about 15 minutes away from each other. This morning, I brought him back to my mom's place.

A bit more on his skin issue. He has always been battling skin issues. He has white patches (tiny ones), warts (some have been burnt off by the vet years ago) and he likes to chew on his paws and back. Usually, one side will have fur while the other side has no fur. The recent chews are also similar, on his paws, back, neck etc. I found scabs inside his ear (no tick). He likes to lick his penis too.

Edit: My mom just text me to inform that he didn't stand in his crate when she comes back home. I made him wear his harness 'cause I know he is usually very careful with things and he won't stand on his legs in excitement when there is a harness on him. It isn't a long-term solution though as he refuses to lie down to rest when the harness is on. Well, at least we know now that the excited jumping can be stopped with a harness.

Edit 2: I bathe him because he gets good support from anti-slip mats and he can stand pretty okay. I figured if I don't bathe him, he gets uncomfortable and goes back to chewing. Right now he gets mostly a good wipe-down but baths are once a week.

Thank you for your thoughts. Pea has been taken off crate rest 2 weeks ago. I don't allow him to venture out of his crate (1m by 1m size) and he gets 5 minutes of walk x 3 times a day. He's very active but I don't allow it.

8 weeks of crate rest is to allow the disc to heal by forming good, secure scar tissue. With the scar tissue still in the early stages of healing, it can be easily disrupted by too much movement. Kinda like a scab forming on your knuckle….bend your finger too much and the scab starts bleeding and having to start all over again forming scar tissue.

Please do not cheat Pea out of his opportunity to fully heal his disc by continuing with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times til graduation day of Sept 9. The next time his disc tears it could be with the potential to really do some damage to the spinal cord….. loss of legs, loss of bladder control.

By the way, vet dispensed Sang Hwang PI 250 for his immune system. I specifically asked for immune booster supplements as he has dry eye lately. Have you heard of it?

Diana, I saw that you asked about acupuncture on Facebook regarding frequency. Can you tell us a bit more about your question, give us some background?

Is Pea currently doing acupuncture, how often does he go?

Is there a current disc problem?

Duing adisc episode, acupuncture could be used to help with pain and help stimulate nerves to heal when there is neuro loss. If there is still neuro diminishment after the 8 weeks of crate rest, then acupuncture session could also continue in an effort to maintain stimulation of nerve cells.

So what is the reason for acupuncture at this point…what did the vet say acupuncture is helping with? What is the "better effect" the vet hopes to see?

If you are seeing Pea in discomfort and you believe it MIGHT be from another disc episode, then until you are certain it is not a disc episode crating is a must to protect the spinal cord from the damage a bad disc could do. There are other things that might cause some discomfort in the tail area such as anal glands too full or infected. Have you taken Pea to another vet for a full physical exam for a 2nd opinion on this discomfort?