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Post by Jason & Anna on Feb 28, 2021 18:40:06 GMT -7
[Need advice asap]1 Is there still currently pain? Yes, and will not eat or use the bathroom. ☐ reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow, ginger movements,yes☐ shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ,yes☐ tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position, appears restless ☐ Arched back ☐head held high or nose to the ground ,yes☆ 2 8.8 poundsA.. Prednisolone 5mg1/2 tablet every 12 hours with taper after 7 days.
Gabapentin .8 mg every 8-12 hours, methocarbol 1/4 tablet every 8-12 hours , prednisone 5mg one a day, tramadol 1/2 tablet every 8-12 B.. 🔘 If on a steroid….what was the start date & dose?
Date of steroid taper?
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
8.8 lbs 3.99kg
prednisolone as of 2/28: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for 7 days Sun 3/10 taper test: _pain/_neuro
gabapentin ?mgs/1 mL: ?mgs (0.8mg dose?) which? 8 or 12 hrs
methocarbamol 125mgs which 8 or 12 hrs?
tramadol 25mgs which 8 or 12 hrs?
needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/Prednisone! ]C.. PEPCID AC: Phrase a simple question that you expect a simple "yes "or "no" to it. Does my dog have any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
(NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html )thumb.ibb.co/mEGRuy/91x_Aj_s00z_L_SY355.jpg☆ 3 -- Ate earlier today, will not eat or drink now -- Has not pooped in 24 hours☆ 4 Your name, too? Anna, female mini Dachshund☆ 5 Yes, and has previiusly (4years ago) had surgery -- Emergency vet ☆ 6 What was the date for CONSERVATIVE treatment? Today, 2-28-21 Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
STRICT means:
- no laps - no couches
- no baths - no sleeping with you
- no dragging or meandering at potty times.
- no PT - no chiro therapy
Why Chiropractic is not recommended for pain for an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/☆ 7 Have seen no release of urineDOGs with BLADDER Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!☆ 8 Yes, she can walk but is currently non stop whimpering in pain and doesn’t want to move
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 28, 2021 19:37:23 GMT -7
Welcome! My name is Paula, what's yours? Which are you giving the pain meds every 12 or every 8 hrs? Let us know so we can better communicate ideas. IF not giving every 8 hrs, start now. Tell us more about 0.8mgs of gabapentin means. Is it a liquid? Then tell us the formula: how many mgs of gabapentin are in one mL of liquid. PREDNISONE 1) Are you giving the anti-inflammatory drug Pred promptly every 12 hours for 7 days? 2) Tell us more about Prednisone and Prednisolone. Do not under stand what you've written. What is " prednisone 5mg one a day," in reference to? Both are really the same drug. What date did pred start on today? Call ER and tell them your Anna is in pain. They should be able to handle adjusting meds over the phone. Anna needs Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board as not eating could be signs of Prednisone damage to the stomach. She doesn't need another issue on top of dealing with a disc episode. Please let us know what ER says. Ask if this is a neck disc. They are more painful. There are extra things you can do at home to help the neck heal, such as softening hard kibble, raising food/water dishes, etc. More info here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/No need to reinvent the wheel with at home nursing care during a disc episode: dodgerslist.com/nursing-care-during-the-disc-episode◽️Lots of member tips ◽️Useful supplies ◽️Review on bladder expressing ◽️Cervical (neck) disc care and more. EMAIL ALERTS
Please enable receiving email alerts when someone has posted. Timely interaction/communications is needed when helping your dog. How to set up: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread |
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Post by Jason on Mar 1, 2021 4:20:47 GMT -7
Hi, my name is Jason, the prednisolone is every 8 ( all meds are being given every 8 hours. She has pooped and peed now. The gabapentin is a liquid it is 250mg/5ml. I plan on going and getting pepcid ac this morning. The prednisolone is 5mg pills given 1/2 half pill every 12 hours for 7 days ramping down to 1/2 pill every 24 hours for 7 days. Her disc in question is indeed a neck disc and since gett all her meds in and excrement (pee/poo) out she is resting. . Any tips on this are appreciated, Thank you Paula.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
8.8 lbs
prednisolone as of 2/28: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for 7 days Sun 3/10 taper test: _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 50mgs/1 mL: 40mgs (0.8mg dose?) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
tramadol 25mgs 3x/day
needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/Prednisone! ]
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 1, 2021 8:23:08 GMT -7
Hi, Jason. Sorry we keep asking but we still need some clarification on the Prednisolone dosage as the information you gave is conflicting. In your last post you say that Prednisolone is being given every 8 hours and that all meds are being given every 8 hours. Then you said that Prednisolone is being given every 12 hours. I assume that the correct information is Prednisolone every 12 hours and the Gabapentin, Methocarbamol and Tramadol every 8 hours but we don't like to assume so please confirm. Please also confirm when you do in fact have Pepcid AC on board.When you say that she pooped and peed, did she do that in the crate or did you carry her outside to do potty? Did you see her deliberately squat and release urine on her own? The only way we humans can tell if a dog has bladder control is to carry them to the spot where they or another dog have peed before, let them sniff allowing only a very few steps and see if they can release urine on their own. If they can, then they have bladder control. If she peed in the crate, that may be due to reflex and overflow of the bladder. Please let us know more about what you've observed. As for giving pills, the Tramadol and Methocarbamol pills can be place a small mashed banana ball, a cream cheese ball, liverwurst ball, peanut butter or inside of a sticky marshmallow and sealed so no taste is on the exterior. Use the three treat method. 2 treats with no meds inside PLUS the med ball. Give plain treat while holding med ball in front of eyes. The idea is your dog will be greedy after the first treat to get the 2nd. Immediately hold the 3rd plain treat so she will hurry to swallow the med ball to get to treat #3. As for the liquid Gabapentin, hopefully this photo will help.  Am I correct that you've been having trouble giving Anna all of her medication and that may be why she's been in pain? Pain should be completely under control within one hour of giving all pain meds and should remain completely under control from one dose of meds to the next. Should you see any sign of pain at any time after giving all meds in a timely manner, do speak to the ER about adjusting the pain meds. Pain hinders healing so have no patience with it. Anna should be allowed to rest and heal comfortably. Any vet at the ER should be able to pull Anna's medical records and adjust the meds by phone. Hang in there. Once Anna's pain is completely under control, caring for her will be much easier. Neck injuries are known to be more painful than back injuries and it can sometimes take a few adjustments of pain meds to get them right. Healing prayers for Anna. |
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 1, 2021 10:51:13 GMT -7
Hi, sorry for the conflicting report. As of this moment the vet has upped her ▲gabapentin to 1.2 ml every 8 hours, ▼methocarbamol is 125mg every 12 hours , prednisolone is 1/2 of a 5mg tablet every 12 hours, discontinued tramadol (won’t prescribe any more) I now have the ✙pepcid ac at 20 mg divided 4 ways and given 1/2 hour before the prednisolone.
she released her bladder this morning in her crate as she stood up, poop came out later on the way outside. The bladder release was a complete at once event. She is definitely holding it and trying not to soil her crate. Her neck is hurting and she won’t let me pick her up but will transfer herself into a smaller caddy that can be carried outside. It seems she is just hurting too bad to get in the grass. (She loves being outside) she is still posturing her head when near being due pain meds. How long should the pain/posturing last ?
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
8.8 lbs
prednisolone as of 2/28: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for 7 days Sun 3/10 taper test: _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 50mgs/1 mL: ▲ 60mgs (1.2mL) ▲3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs ▼2x/day
tramadol 25mgs which 8 or 12 hrs? STOPPED 3/1!
Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 1, 2021 11:31:54 GMT -7
Jason, the reason Anna is needlessly suffering with pain is because the Rx is not yet right.
All the pain meds last for about 8 hrs in the body. Having pain surface with those Rx'd at every 12 hrs explains the unnecessary pain!
Please phone the vet to report your observations (won't allow picking up, holding head un low or high position).
ADVOCATE for Rx'd to be promptly every 8 hrs for both gabapentin and Methocarbamol.
What is the reason given for not having the 3rd pain med on board— the general analgesic Tramadol?
Please confirm if there is bladder control. We must know if she sniffed and old urine spot and then released urine. An overflowing bladder where urine is released by reflex can appear to be peeing when it is overflowing. Overflowing bladder (lost bladder control) need to be manually expressed.
Please keep us posted on the pain thing getting attended to for Anna over the phone.
When pain meds have been properly prescribed for Anna, the pain is in control within an hour of the dose. And pain stays in control dose to dose, round the clock. Have absolutely no patience with pain, keep your vet alerted so he knows if there is something he still needs to do to get the Rx's right.
It will take Prednisone 7-30 days to resolve the cause of the painful swelling. In the meantime it is important that Anna is not suffering with pain while healing. Pain hinders healing.
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 1, 2021 12:44:41 GMT -7
Hi, thanks for the update, they claim it is not as effective with the gabapentin.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 1, 2021 15:13:38 GMT -7
Jason, if pain is not in control round the clock, dose to dose with further adjustment to Methocarabamol, then do advocate for tramadol to be brought on board.
Tramadol at 25mgs 2x/day was not likely to give pain relief, as it is too low in mgs and x/day.
The usual we observe vets using all three meds (tramadol, methocarbamol and gabapentin) in controlling pain is to Rx Tramadol at the higher end of the mg range AND promptly every 8 hours.
So for 8.8lbs (3.9 kg) Anna:
10mgs tramadol X 3.9kg = 39.9mgs
Look for an Rx of tramadol dose= 40mgs every 8 hrs.
Please update the meds for us with changes the vet made in mgs or frequency, thanks! Hope to hear back all has been made good with Anna in the pain department
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 2, 2021 6:24:14 GMT -7
Hi, good morning to all, thanks for all the help, today is a good day so far, she has pooped and peed outside this morning !! She is still not 100% pain free but I have a follow up with her regular vet today at 4:00. Its only a mile from the house and transport is concerning but necessary to get her seen and the proper tramadol due to it being a narcotic. Will update when I get done there.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 2, 2021 8:21:09 GMT -7
Yes, transport to the vet is concerning as it is a risk of more damage to the spine. Have you tried to contact the ER vet so they can adjust the meds? They're the ones who originally examined Anna and any vet in the hospital can pull Anna's medical records and adjust the meds. The meds originally prescribed were not sufficient and they need to take care of that. You can give them an update by phone as to any sign of pain that you still see so the vet can adjust meds over the phone. Please try to get the ER to adjust the meds rather than take Anna to her regular vet for yet another exam.
If worse comes to worse and Anna must be seen in order to get Tramadol back on board, please be sure to secure the crate in the car (I use a seat belt through the back of a wire crate) and pad the inside of the crate well with rolled up towels/blankets to prevent her from jostling around too much in the car. You may not be allowed inside the vet's office due to COVID so be sure that any vet tech who carries her in knows to keep her spine horizontally aligned and not to allow her to walk.
We'll be awaiting any update from you.
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 2, 2021 9:36:17 GMT -7
The emergency vet absolutely will not prescribe tramadol. I must have her seen by regular bet for this, I have no other option at this point.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 2, 2021 11:41:08 GMT -7
If you had the ER fax their records of their exam to your regular vet, would your vet agree to prescribing Tramadol based on the ER exam? My vet did that for my Jeremy once when he was in pain and the ER wouldn’t help. It’s worth a try. Sorry I didn’t think of that earlier.
Prayers that all goes well should you have no other option but to transport Anna.
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 2, 2021 12:05:16 GMT -7
Thanks for the idea but I have begged for the needed meds. The er vet did in fact send the paperwork from the visit to her vet before I even requested them to. I even had the idea of a virtual visit but with it being a narcotic they will only prescribe it (they don’t keep it at any vet around here) if I bring her in. She is hurting and needs a second opinion at this point. She is comfortable laying in her wire crate that I arranged per recommendation but if she moves around she whimpers and head postures.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 2, 2021 14:19:50 GMT -7
Since your vet is insisting on an in-person visit for Anna, try to make her as secure as possible in her crate. Padding it out with rolled p blankets or towels will ensure that she does not slide in the crate when you are making a turn or if you need to brake suddenly.
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 2, 2021 16:41:43 GMT -7
So, I built up padded sides with rolled up blankets in my smallest carry crate (handle taped down so it had to be carried by the crate itself) and fixed her up where she laid in the pocket and placed another rolled towel at the front. She rested completely the whole way with her head on the rolled towel, the vet doubled [?] the dosage of tramadol and gabapentin 😁 she peed on the grass when I got her home (slow ride with flashers on) and has utilized the rolled towels in her suite for the first time. So the trip is a win both in her learning how to lay more comfortably and meds are raised to proper dosage. Now just waiting on the swelling to go down and healing to start !!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 2, 2021 17:09:51 GMT -7
Jason, very good to hear your vet adjusted meds. We are in the dark, of course, until you have a moment to fill in with specific details about the meds.
HELP US whenever you post:
• Use exact name of all meds.
• Give the dose in mgs.
• Give the frequency of dosing 1x/day, 2x/day, etc.
• Use the date rather than today, Tuesday, last week, etc.
What changes did your vet make to the med list?
8.8 lbs
prednisolone as of 2/28: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for 7 days Sun 3/10 taper test: _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 50mgs/1 mL: 60mgs (1.2mL) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day
tramadol ?mgs ? times per day
Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day
Also let us know if any pain should resurface nearing the next dose of the three pain meds (gabapentin, methocarbamol, and tramadol).
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Post by Jason & Anna on Mar 4, 2021 16:35:29 GMT -7
Hi Paula, thankfully we have her pain under control. She is feeling much better and now is getting bored because she hates being inside. Does anyone have any activity a doxie can do while confined to a recovery suite to pass the time and help with boredom ??
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 4, 2021 18:02:23 GMT -7
Jason, beautiful to hear Anna is now able to heal in full comfort from pain! What changes did your vet make to the med list? It would help us to know8.8 lbs
prednisolone as of 2/28: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for 7 days Sun 3/10 taper test: _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 50mgs/1 mL: 60mgs (1.2mL) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day
tramadol ?mgs ? times per day
Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day
SOME THINGS TO TRY OUT -- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP: According to the book "Stress in Dogs" by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day. People sleep 8-9 hours day. What is Anna doing in the suite? Laying around and sleeping! You can give Anna a change in view. Place the suite near the sliding glass door so she can watch things going on outdoors. But only if she can do that sitting lying down quite. Let her listen to relaxing music:
-- Many members have found a pet stroller helpful to keep them near your as you move from room to room. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/17/pet-stroller-conservatve-treatment/-- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. |
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