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Post by daisysmom on Aug 13, 2013 13:12:15 GMT -7
Hi Everyone. I just joined today. Trying to find answers for my little Daisy. She had surgery 2 1/2 years ago for a ruptured disc and then a second surgery to fuse the remaining discs so they can't rupture. BUT, a couple of weeks ago she started yelping in pain. We thought (vet included) that it was her leg. She was pulling it up to her and not using it when she was yelping. Other leg was fine. Put her on Rimadyl but a week later, same thing. Took her back to vet (different one in same office) and he did a lot checks on her for pain, reflex, etc, etc. Says it is her L7 where the pain is. More than likely scar tissue or arthritis causing it. Put her on strict cage rest for 3-4 weeks with Tramadol and Prednisone. I guess my question is has anybody's dog had the surgery and then had problems down the road? She turned 6 in July. Financially we cannot do another surgery. BUT I will say that if anybody ever needs it, the Dallas Veterinary Surgical Clinic where she had her surgery was absolutely awesome. Would recommend it to anyone. But back to my question of problems down the road??
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Aug 13, 2013 15:08:56 GMT -7
Hi daisysmom! Our Vinnie had to have surgery over a year and a half ago. He never regained use of his back end :-(. But we got a wheelchair and had swim sessions in the tub, and got him a drag suit so he was back to 'normal'. Then July 4 weekend he endured an episode, this time it was cervical. It was so bad at one point, we thought it might be the end for him. But, we got him on steroids and the right combo and dose of pain meds and I can say today that we are two weeks from crate rest graduation. We have been off all meds for quite a while, and are making plans for his rehab once crate rest is over. So long answer to your question is yes, they can have other episodes. It has been explained to me that they are born with this condition. So, we never know when or if this insidious condition will rear it's ugly head. We can only prepare ourselves by becoming educated in all things IVDD. Dodgerslist is the best place for that!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 13, 2013 19:48:15 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerlist. My name is Paula what is yours? You might discuss with your vet if this is nerve root signature pain. It is disc caused but instead of pressure to the spinal cord the pressure is on a nerve root exiting down to the leg. This is painful and makes them not want to bear weight. Dr. Isaacs explains here: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/rootsignature.htm If this is a nerve root issue then it will take 8 weeks for the disc to heal and 100% STRICT crate rest is need for the full time. What was the date of last use of Rimadyl…was there a 4-7 day washout to protect the stomach. I see there is no stomach protector in use. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. This is a good site to bookmark for looking up your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html--What breed is your dog? -- What was the date you saw the vet and 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? We guessed it might be 8/6. -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding the leg up flamingo style? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Daisy was born with a disease…a progressive one. It has the potential to prematurely age all the discs and it is unpredictable whether only one disc will be affected or multiple ones over the years. Your getting up to speed in IVDD will play an instrumental role in a good recovery this time and help you to understand the disease should another happen. I recommend to start with these two pages: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm [how healing takes place during a disc episode] www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm [Shortcut thru IVDD so you know how to fight the enemy and win!] |
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Post by daisysmom on Aug 14, 2013 6:20:52 GMT -7
Thank you Sally. I'm having such a hard time with this. She was doing so good on crate rest and this morning she was just yelping and in horrible pain while lying in her crate completely still. And she is still on the Tramadol
and Prednisone. I just feel so helpless and then I feel guilty because she is in such pain and don't want her suffering. She's been through so much already with the two surgeries. Was in the hospital for 2 1/2 weeks the first time and a week the second time. And financially we are just not able to do that again so THAT makes me feel guilty also. The possible paralysis, etc doesn't bother me, but the pain she is going through is killing me.
guess I can consider myself lucky in one aspect, though. She doesn't mind the crate at all. She's not been crate trained at all (except for recovery after surgeries) and does no whining or clawing to get out. She's all in all an exceptionally lazy dog...lol. Always has been. A warm blanket and she is good to go for HOURS without getting up.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Aug 14, 2013 6:39:14 GMT -7
Has she had a dose of her pain medication recently? Is she any better? Is she running a fever? The sudden severe increase in pain and reluctance (or inability?) to move is reason to call your Vet immediately. I'm not trying to scare you, but the Vet needs to know - to rule out other conditions.
Keeping you in thought and prayer.
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Post by daisysmom on Aug 14, 2013 6:49:16 GMT -7
She had her bedtime dose and I gave her the morning dose when she started yelping. By the time I left for work, she was good. Ate her breakfast, drank her water, pottied, and back in her crate. No fever. She didn't yelp when I picked her up to go potty, either. I guess maybe she just moved wrong??
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Aug 14, 2013 6:56:20 GMT -7
That is very possible  Keep an eye on her, she will soon learn to move in ways that don't cause her pain. Poor little girl. I just realized that we are posting on Pax's thread -so I am going to try to move this over to Daisy's original thread so that all of her "stuff" is together. |
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Post by daisysmom on Aug 14, 2013 7:32:39 GMT -7
Paula, my name is Terri. The nerve root signature pain is pretty much spot on for her symptoms! Like I said in my original post, even the vet thought she'd injured her leg. She would pull it up and not walk on it at all. As for the stomach meds, no, my vet didn't mention giving her any but since reading on it yesterday, I went and bought the Pepcid AC. There was no break between the Rimadyl and the new meds either.
--What breed is your dog? She is a 6 year old mini pie bald.
-- What was the date you saw the vet and 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? We guessed it might be 8/6.
We saw the vet last Thurday night and started her on crate rest. I feel very strict with it but maybe I am not strict enough. When it isn't bothering her, she is so normal!
-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Tramadol and Prednisone. Without it here with me, I can't give you dosages.
-- Eating and drinking OK? Yes, just like normal
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Look normal to me.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 14, 2013 8:47:35 GMT -7
Without specfics on her meds we are at a disadvantage to comment. So when you can provide mg's and frequecy that would be good. So in general I would say she is being under medicated. Please call the vet asap this morning to discuss the following:
1. Tramadol is not likely to control pain unless given at least every 8 hours. It has a very short half life of 1.7 hours.
2. One pain med is also not likely to control the pain. So vets who are familiar with IVDD, will prescribe a combo of pain meds.
Methocarbamol to deal with the type of pain stemming from muscles spasms so often associated with a disc episode.
3. If the above two are not fully controlling pain dose to dose, the gabapentin is added in. Have no patience with pain, it can take several times of feedback to the vet so he knows where to further tweak meds. There is no one size fits all pain relief…it will need to be customized to Daisy's needs.
Crate rest must be VERY STRICT. Only out of the crate to potty. And then just a very very few footsteps to get the job done. Crate rest is to let the disc heal… there are no meds to heal a disc. The meds are strictly for getting swelling down (Pred) and for pain relief (tramadol, etc) Doing your readings will give you the foundation to understand how to combat this disease and win and be able to commit to the 100% STRICT crate rest needed to let DAisy's disc heal.
Do keep your vet in the loop about Pepcid AC no being on board. We are anxiously awaiting news of your phone call this morning to get pain relief right for Daisy. Let us know what he prescribes (name, dose in mg and frequency)
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Aug 14, 2013 9:03:00 GMT -7
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Post by daisysmom on Nov 8, 2013 11:03:14 GMT -7
Hi Paula. Haven't updated in a while but just wanted to let you know that I printed out your last post to me about me it maybe being nerve root issue and gave it to my vet. He researched it and agreed that it could be that. We discussed the medicines and the Pepcid and she did really good with that. We did STRICT crate rest for 6 weeks. After the first 3 or 4 days she didn't seem to have ANY pain so I was just going to give as needed and she never needed it again. She is completely back to her old self. I guess catching it early and the strict rest did the trick. Still keep a close eye on her though! But after reading all the posts about dogs crying in their crates etc, I decided I must be really lucky!! She did great in it. Only time she got antsy is when I would come home from work to let her potty. Not sure if it was from excitement or needing to potty really bad, but she would start clawing at the crate wanting out. She also liked it better when I draped a blanket over the top, sides, and back and just left the front open. I think it made her feel more secure and I placed it where she could see entire living room, kitchen, and dining area. Then just moved it in my room at night next to the bed. She's a great little patient!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 10, 2013 11:18:51 GMT -7
Terri, thank you for letting us know t hat Daisy had such a good recovery. She is quite a lucky girl. Most often the disc really does require 8 weeks of 100% STRICT rest 24/7. An early healing disc is subject to tears on scar tissue forming. I just want you to know…because with this degenerative disease, we don't know if a dog has just one episode or multiple ones during their lifetime. A tear to the disc is not only very painful, but subjects a dog to severe damage to the spinal cord. Best bet is to give the disc all the time it needs to heal…8 weeks.
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Keep an eye on her, she will soon learn to move in ways that don't cause her pain. Poor little girl.
