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Post by Scott & Theo on Jun 23, 2020 17:51:52 GMT -7
Hello,
New fella here after 57 hours of pure anxious hell.
Theo, our 4.5 year old male 13.2 pound miniature dachshund -- never allowed to take stairs/jump onto or off of any furniture/has never tripoded since we've had him from 8 weeks old onward, went for a walk with our daughter this past Thursday morning (6/18/20) and upon arriving back home all was well... Theo waited around while she prepared his breakfast, he ate it with his usual enthusiasm and then went over to sit on his Park-It Pad (a little foot cushion we have for him on the floor that he's had since puppyhood)... when our daughter re-entered the living room from having brushed her teeth she thought it odd that Theo didn't immediately sit-up and follow her into the kitchen while she prepared her breakfast. She went over and noticed he looked "sad, worried, bothered" and said his name in a way that always excites him, he sort of lifted his head up and put it back down on the pad. She then got a couple of his favorite toys and tossed them, he ran after them and would stop short of retrieving them and return to his pad. We immediately became concerned about a GI issue ~ Theo has had two episodes of bad gas in his lower GI previously that presented itself in such a way that we took him on both occasions to the ER... one resulted in us making the decision to never have him chew and eat certain kinds of dry jerky snacks, the other -- that he truly cannot tolerate any diary even though he loves it. We started going over what he had eaten in the past 12 hours, nothing was out of the ordinary with the exception that my daughter did recall him getting a small piece of raw onion off the floor before she could grab it... we Googled that and found know real evidence pointing toward that being the cause of his feeling poor. I tossed some toys to and away from him, again a waning interest that always resulted in him walking back to me, concern on his face and in his eyes. We examined him for bug bites and anything we could see visually -- nothing, but we did find it odd that his belly was very hard and trembling. We became more convinced that this was a GI issue (somewhat consistent to how he presented the past two times)... while I called the ER I tossed him another toy which he instinctively chased -- he stopped short of it again and walked back to me more tentatively and with a slight yet noticable arch to his back. Never any back issues with him previously and with two prior GI issues, we assumed perhaps gas or time for a poop (I became a little worried in the back of my head though - having had a Doxie in my past that had back issues that resulted in a successful surgery: the reasons why Theo has never been allowed or encouraged to jump, tripod or use stairs). Daughter walked him, he did in fact have another poop and reported that his gait was "normal, fine" -- thusly putting any suspicions I was starting to have to rest. The ER said to bring him. Due to Covid, they came out to get him and then performed a basic exam on him while we waited anxiously in the car... an hour or so later the Dr. called and said they couldn't find anything out of the ordinary with his GI and that the exam showed him to be in great health but yes, he seemed apprehensive and was guarding his stomach. Also, due to Theo having two luxating patellas and being a dachshund the attending physician did an initial neurological exam and also found nothing out of the ordinary. A back exam raised no alerts -- the attending did ask us if Theo normally sits down on a mid-spine pressure test... we confirmed yes to that as he can take a light touch to his mid-back as a sign to "Sit". She asked if we would sign off on x-rays and full blood labs... yes, of course. Three hours later she called to say all the labs were fantastic, the x-rays, again, showed nothing out of the ordinary regarding his GI -- but that the part of the GI x-ray that inadvertently also showed his spine was showing four discs with calcification (not unexpected by me, also not welcomed of course either but I know it to be more normal than not because of the breed and... on a previous x-ray, a year ago, for his luxating patellas, the same thing was noted by that particular Vet) the Dr. suggested going home with him and monitoring him as well as starting him on
Gabapentin (1ml every 8-12 hours) and Diazepam (1 quarter of a 5mg pill every 12 hours). The rest of Thursday night he was dopey and vocally chatty (his usual response to meds that also cause sedation as a side effect), we cuddled him, fed him and he went off to bed with our daughter in her bed (where he always sleeps). Friday morning we began him on Diazepam (the script had to be filled outside the ER so there was a slight delay in getting that into him). Our daughter took him on a more amended shortened walk... no issues peeing or pooping but she said his rear legs were different: very ✙wobbly and "like they weren't his". By mid-afternoon Friday our daughter wanted the ER number to talk to a physician as she was unhappy with Theo's gait on another 2nd short walk... as a result of that call they wanted to see him again. That visit didn't net much more than a reassurance that not much had changed because he wasn't really willing to show his true/current/new gait to them at the hospital (probably due to stress and not wanting to be there), they gave him an injection of Methadone... home we went. We continued the Gabapentin and Diazepam on schedule. Our daughter was growing more and more displeased with his gait as were we... an early AM Saturday morning stir in bed found Theo trying to ✙crawl (not walk) from under our daughter's covers on her bed to get more comfortable. She got up and harnessed him for a short walk and came home very distressed. Theo was having great difficulty supporting himself at all and that while taking a few steps forward "was more or less ✙dragging both of his rear legs behind himself."
We immediately called the ER to let them know we were en route. They found a very large forward progression, to quote the Dr. "if I were to stage rate this, yesterday would have been Stage 1 and today I would call this Stage 3 IVDD"... she suggested admitting him overnight, transporting him Sunday (6/21) to another hospital for prepping for an early Monday morning MRI. We agreed while having our hearts crack in half. We called the ER throughout Saturday night to check in, each time we did Theo was resting comfortably in their Neuro ICU. His next thorough exam/eval was Sunday AM with their Neurologist... I hesitantly called for the results (basically bawling for the first portion of the call while talking to the front desk and waiting for the Dr to pick up) the doctor picked up the phone and said, "Great news. Theo [6/21] is walking... albeit very wobbly, very unsure and uncertain, but walking nonetheless and his tail is wagging." It was like the darkest clouds had parted ways and the sunshine, and every good thing in the entirety of the Universe, had broken through. She went onto say, "This is a huge improvement from yesterday but does pose a serious dilemma... I don't think we should move forward on the MRI, yet at least, because it could net us a false/positive." She continued on to say that with his improvement, an improvement that could be true improvement (a reduction in swelling and inflammation) or simply a stubborn breed, the dachshund, that was simply annoyed off and had had enough of being carried around and poo-poo'ed and sweet-talked to and had finally decided to walk to get the medical staff to leave him the hell alone to do his business (he had taken a sizeable pee and poop while solo walking)... and that the MRI would/could lead a surgeon's hand in making a correct or incorrect decision in what or which disc needed attention. In any event the doctor felt strongly that we should delay on the MRI and instead keep him an additional night in ICU to monitor progress... she also said she was confident enough in his progress to release him to us that day even though we/our family and the Dr. agreed that another night was good for monitoring -and- would buy us much needed to time to prep the house for his arrival home on Monday.
Monday morning arrived with more positive news... Theo was walking with just a touch more improvement (the Dr. sent us two photos and a short video of him walking through the ICU as part of his Neuro exam -- my wife and daughter, having seen him at his worst on Saturday were impressed and joyous whereas I will admit, I cried, having not seen the worst of his gait Saturday before he was admitted into ICU: he looked wounded, unsure, small and very fragile). We completed the final bits around the house: His Condo (his crate from his puppy days was cleaned and reassembled) Egg-foam, 1 inch thick, had been cut into two layers, packed into a garbage bag and taped off and placed on the plastic tray His favorite wooby went on that with various blankets rolled and placed around the edges of the mattress area for his head Clip-on water dish purchased and installed on the inside of his Condo
An absolute homecoming to see him and have him with us again after the long discharge process from the hospital ~ what an ordeal that not only all this has befallen Theo BUT during a pandemic no less ~ and two long nights away from us.
The Dr. is set to see him in 14 days baring anything before that date.
The remainder of Monday (yesterday) into today, Tuesday (6/22-6/23)...
We are walking him (no more than 7-12 steps) for bathroom breaks -- we have tried using a sling but he won't do anything business-wise with it under his rear flank so we have stopped using it... he was quite constipated after the hospital's food and general refusal of water -- his stress plus intake of meds more than likely being the culprit -- but he is pooping (a little bead of fresh blood on his last stool just an hour ago (Tuesday 6/23) that worried us for a second until we realized it was also on the end of a very dry stool that was then followed by a more clay like and wet sand like orange stool that would indicate he's now processing our food -- sweet potatoes & white rice) and peeing without assistance.
His forward stride is nice and somewhat confident while his lateral turns are very wonky and sponging with an occasional cross-legged wobble moment. He lost his rear balance on this most recent walk and stumbled into soft grass with just his flank going down (we caught him just after) as well as, on a move forward that resulted in his rear left paw inverted -- we quickly righted it. He's being a trooper and super hero throughout. He is a true Champion!
His meds (as of current)... Diazepam ~ 1.25mg every 8-12 hours Carprofen ~ 12.5mg every 12 hours Trazodone ~ 25mg every 8-12 hours Gabapentin ~ 1ml every 8-12 hours
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 13.2 lbs 4.5 y.o. Carprofen as of what date?: 12.5mgs 2x/day for ? days, then test for pain/neuro gabapentin ?mgs in one mL: ?mgs dose (1mL) which 8 or 12 hrs? diazepam 5mg tab: 1.25 mgs which 8 or 12 hrs? Trazodone 25mgs ?x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 23, 2020 19:26:31 GMT -7
My name is Paula, what's yours? Welcome to the Forum!
Vets make a diagnosis by eliminating all but maybe 3-4 disease that c ould possibly be going on. Then they rank those 3-4 things. What did the neuro believe to be the top disease Theo was suffering from?
Tell us a little bit more details about the med list so we are prepared to make useful comments for you.
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MED LIST - What meds, shots, IVs where given in the hospital? - What date did carprofen start? For how many days is the Rx for? - Gabapentin —check the bottle lable for how many mgs of gabapentin are in one mL of liquid. - Which to you currently actually give gabapentin and diazepam- every 8 hrs or every 12 hrs? Is his pain fully in control dose to dose, when he has to move to potty, change poisitions in his Condo recovery suite?
When you mention a vet, would you tell if a family DVM vet, a neuro (ACVIM) specialist, a DVM ER vet. Makes a difference in assessing things as to the level of training a vet has.
Which kind of dr. is the appt in 14 days with?
I read between the lines how much you and your family love and are devoted to Theo. He is one lucky dog!
CONSTIPATION Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. NOTE: alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potatoe. --To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. -- To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day to kibble.
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Post by Scott & Theo on Jun 23, 2020 20:01:08 GMT -7
Hi Paula!
Yeesh, what a moron I am... all that and I forgot to mention my name, I am Scott (the "S" in SCutshall).
As to your fantastic questions -- I am enlisting my 2nd in Command, my daughter, who is right now creating an account and will be here in a second to hopefully fill in all my gaps and spaces. Her name is Chloe.
Nice to meet you again, and truly looking forward to healing our lil' fella while learning a lot along that path.
-Scott
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Post by Chloe & Theo on Jun 23, 2020 21:33:38 GMT -7
Hey Paula!
I'll need to check, but I believe the only shots he recieved at the vet were methadone. No IVs. He recieved gabapentin and diazepam throughout his 48 hour stay at the clinic, and they started him on Trazadone and Carprofen on Saturday, the 20th. Our Carprofen Rx is for 5 days (we started on the 22nd when we got him home). The Gabapentin is 50mg/mL, and we give Gabapentin, Diazepam, and Trazodone every 12 hours. So far I've seen no signs of discomfort in between doses. No groaning, trembling, raised head, or tightened stomach.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 13.2 lbs 4.5 y.o. Carprofen as of 6/20: 12.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then SAT 6/27 STOP test for pain/neuro gabapentin 50mg/mL: 50 mgs (1mL) 2x/day diazepam 5mg tab: 1.25 mgs 2x/day Trazodone 25mgs 2x/day No stomach protection on board!]
Theo's seen 4 different DVM ER vets (all of which ranked IVDD as being the most likely candidate for his issues) these past few days, the veterinary specialty hospital is the only place nearby with 24 hour service, so we took him there instead of our normal family vet. He's going to get his check-up at our family DVM vet in 14 days. Thank you for the food tips for constipation! Theo gets a generous helping of pumpkin and sweet potato in his daily diet already, now that he's gotten all of the vet food out of his system I think he's going to go back to his normal healthy stools.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 24, 2020 3:54:05 GMT -7
Good news that Theo's pain is completely under control, Chloe. PEPCID AC: Anytime a dog is taking an anti-inflammatory, stomach protection must be added. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). i.ibb.co/DCN9611/91x-Aj-s00z-L-SY355.jpgDoxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid AC (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.htmlHealing the damaged disc will require a full 8 weeks of strict crate rest. STRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to a minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! i.ibb.co/K7HNj10/slingwalk.jpgIf Theo's walking is wobbly enough that his hips fall to the side, he will need to use a sling for stabilization. Some male dogs prefer a figure 8 sling. Here are directions on how to make one: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgWhat is the purpose of the checkup at your family DVM in 14 days? Vets who understand the importance of strict crate rest during conservative care will agree to take status updates by phone rather than bringing the dog into the office. Transport involves risk of too much movement of the spine. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. Any changes or questions regarding meds can be done by phone to the hospital where Theo has been seen. What directions did the vets give as to the stopping or tapering of the pain meds when Carprofen stops? The stopping of Carprofen is a test for pain/swelling. You'll need to be on the alert of any sign of pain returning at that time. If you do see any sign of pain return, you'll need to immediately advise the neuro so Theo can be returned to all original dosages of meds for a bit longer. Pain = swelling = more time on all meds. It can take 7-30 days for the swelling to resolve. Having pain meds on board during the test for pain would make it difficult for you to determine whether there is still pain/swelling. More info on the inflammation phase of IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmKnowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn - excellent video series here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/theater.htm PRINT OUT this link and tape to your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm use the printout as your roadmap to avoid dangerous detours in your dog’s care make notes/highlight to keep yourself on track follow all the links in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog needs. Use the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main www.Dodgerslist.com website: www.dodgerslist.com/index/searchBOX.jpgHealing prayers for Theo.
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Post by Chloe & Theo on Jun 24, 2020 20:21:35 GMT -7
Thank you for the help Marjorie! That figure 8 sling is a great idea, he doesn't like his current sling so I definitely want to try that. Today Theo seems to have regressed a bit when it comes to coordination in his rear legs. He can still walk but he stumbles far more than he did yesterday, and he's having a harder time correcting his feet when he missteps. He's definitely not exhibiting any pain symptoms, and we're monitoring to make sure it's not becoming critical. Should we be worried about this, or is this just a hiccup in his recovery?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 24, 2020 21:00:50 GMT -7
Chloe hours matter in stopping the increase of nerve damage. If you've been doing 100% STRICT rest and still there is worsening, VERY STRONGLY advocate for a switch over to the most powerful of the two classes of anti-inflammatory drugs — steroids. Even if you've not ensured he is under the STRICTEST of rest a switch to prednisone can help turn around the dimishments. When there is neuro diminishment, vets choose steroids over the lessor class, non-steroids (NSAIDS) Carprofen. Quickly read this page so you can do you best job of advocating first thing in the AM to get the steroid prednisone on board. If the hospital is open tonight were he has been seen and the vet on duty can read his file, that vet can prescribe and get pred started soonest possible. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmAs damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. YES more wobbly 6/24Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. YES 6/24 increased Paws knuckle under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm#surgeryVSconservativeSWITCHING from NSAID (carprofen) to STEROID (Prednisone) normally requires 5-7 days of washout as safety to the Stomach lining. A vet can deem it an emergency to save deterioration of nerve cells and nerve function and not do the 5-7 days washout.SWITCH with no WASHOUT - TWO stomach protectors MUST be on board. You don't even have Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board as it should be with carprofen! SWITCH w/o washout requires both famotidine + sucralfate. Again, do your homework so you can do your very best job of advocating for both these protectors to be on board. Famotidine + SucralfatePlease keep us posted, concerned why the neuro decline and what the vet will do to help.
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