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Post by Janice & Annibell on Apr 30, 2020 14:19:19 GMT -7
1 13 lbs.2 Hi, I'm Janice and my 12 year old dachshund is named Annibell. We are located in NJ. 3 Yes, Ann was diagnosed at age 4 with IVDD and has had 2 surgeries (one at 4 and one at 8). We've done these surgeries with a neurologist. Ann's new disc injury is her L1 and L2. Right now we have only worked with her general veterinarian.4 We went to the vet today [4/30] and started crate rest this afternoon. 5 Yes, she yelps when we pick her up. She groans trying to change position and slightly trembles periodically. 6 She can still walk. I have not seen her wag her tail. 7 Ann lost her ability to use the bathroom on her own after her last surgery, so we expel her, which we are still successfully able to do. She does get recurring UTIs and is on a low dose antibiotic for prevention. 8 Eating, drinking and poops all okay. Looking forward to being a member of this incredible resource!
Her medications prescribed are as follows: Rimyladyl 25mg, .5 2x day Methocarbamol 500mg .25, 2x day Gabapentin 100mg/ml, .75 2x day
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for ? days, then stop test for _pain/_neuro Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day Gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg 2x/day Minocycline. ?mg ?x/day UTI Prophylactic Stomach Protector needed ?mg ?x/day while on Rimadyl!]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 30, 2020 15:02:39 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Janice. We are so glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you.
I am sorry that Annibell is having another disc episode.
Conservative treatment is different than surgery in that it requires very STRICT crate rest, much stricter than post surgery crate rest. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm
STRICT means:
◼︎no laps
◼︎no couches
◼︎no baths
◼︎no sleeping with you
◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times.
◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc
◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment.
You mentioned that Annibell is showing signs of pain. The signs of pain we look for are; ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way between doses. If the current dose of Methocarbamol and Gabapentin are not controlling her pain, please let the vet know as soon as possible so pain meds can be adjusted. Pain only slows the healing process.
All anti-inflammatories cause excess stomach acid which can lead to stomach damage. To minimize the chances of this damage a stomach protector like Pepcid AC should be added to the medications. Ask your vet if Annibell has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. Here is some more info on Pepcid AC: www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html
Unfortunately, UTI's are seen fairly frequently in dogs without bladder control. What antibiotic is she taking? We have some reading on recurrent UTI's here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/uti.htm and here:
The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for Annibell is to get back up to speed on IVDD as soon as possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn We have an excellent video series here:
PRINT OUT this link and tape to your fridge:
--use the printout as your roadmap to avoid dangerous detours in your dog’s care --make notes/highlight to keep yourself on track --follow all the links in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog needs.
--Use the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main website:
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Apr 30, 2020 19:23:51 GMT -7
Thank you so much for all of this info- it's incredible!
For her UTIs, she takes Minocycline.
Two questions I was wondering if you had thoughts on:
- the doc gave her 2 weeks meds and then wants to see her back. Do you suggest that she stays on the medication for all 8 weeks of crate rest?
- he mentioned if it gets worse to see a neurologist. In my experience, the neurologist only recommends surgery or euthinasia. If she were to "get worse" (i.e. more pain, further paralysis, is surgery the really the only option or can she have a quality of life if we opt not to do surgery? My concern is that she's 12+, already cannot use the bathroom on her own from previous injuries and has recurrent UTIs. I don't think putting her through another invasive surgery is in her best interest.
Thank you for all of your help!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 30, 2020 19:54:10 GMT -7
Janice, just so you know euthanasia for a disc episode is not a treatment! For how many days is the Rimadyl for? Is all pain fully in control round the clock with pain meds at twice a day doses? If not advocate for for 3x/day dose. Did you contact the vet, what adjustment to the pain meds were made? Is there a health reason Pepcid AC (Famotidine) is not on board with the Rimadyl as Romy explained? Asking how long to take the NSAID Rimady is an excellent question. Understanding the treatment means you can better monitor and ask questions. Really short answer at the test stop of Rimady Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = back up at anti-inflammatory dose, pain meds and Pepcid ACThe full answer you need under your belt is here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmLearn where your dog is and how to monitor for neuro functions As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. √Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. √ Walking, Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Never regained after a past surgery 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm#surgeryVSconservative
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Post by Janice & Annibell on May 1, 2020 18:40:32 GMT -7
Thank you for the info! Right now the vet only prescribed 2 weeks of medication and wants to recheck her for progress after. I am going to ask when I go back to supply another month, so it's 6 weeks total. I did speak with him today and he agreed the ✙pepcid is good for her to take so I will add that while on the antinflammatory.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for 14 days, then 5/14 stop test for _pain/_neuro Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day Gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg 2x/day Minocycline. ?mg ?x/day Prophylactic ✙Pepcid 5mgs 2x/day]
Do you have any recommendations for how to keep her comfortable and best quality of life at this stage in her life? She's 12, blind and as mentioned
has lost bathroom function and some walking ability from her previous injuries.
I wouldn't put her through another surgery- but as you mentioned euthanasia isn't something I want to do, as I feel she still can have a good quality of life. Do you see any dogs on maintenance medication for IVDD?
Ive been reading all of the content on this site and it's incredible. Thank you for all that you do!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2020 20:57:56 GMT -7
Janice, a 14-day course of rimadyl is pretty typical and safe handling of that med. It is the stop on May 14 that proves if another course is needed or not. I do not know what's the purpose for obtaining another month of meds would be when there has not been a Rimadyl test stop on 5/14 along with the full stop of the pain meds or backing them off to know where swelling stands. Good reading or re-reading to "get" how anti-inflammatories. There is a lot of new stuff that can be overwhelming to obsorbe in one read:http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm
Keeping her comfortable is a matter if the pain meds are right. If she has pain, then the vet needs your feedback to adjust meds. -- adovcate for 3x/day for methocarbamol and gabapentin. 2x/day is not likely in many cases to control pain 24hrs a day. --Advocate for tramadol every 8 hrs.
You had written about trembling, yelping with lifted. What did the vet do to change the meds? Is that pain now fully manage dose, to right up to the next dose now?
Good job on getting the Pepcid AC on board!
The single most important care you can give is the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out of the recovery suite for a very, very few footsteps at potty time. Just as Romy above outlined how to approach the crate rest part with good specifics to guide you.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on May 2, 2020 7:09:44 GMT -7
Thanks for the additional explanation! I think I get it now. Crate rest is strict for 8-12 weeks, but she's not necessarily medication the whole time.
She actually ate a full meal today so I think the pepcid really helped her!
For the yelping he added a 3rd dose of ▲pain meds [date?, names?] until the weekend ends and then he suggested tapering back to 2 and seeing if that is sufficient
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 2, 2020 8:58:55 GMT -7
Janice, the disc takes 8 weeks to heal. That is the reason for 8 weeks of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out for a very, very few footsteps at potty time. 12 weeks of rest is not a good idea unless there is an usual reason such as too much movement and the disc relapsed (early dealign scar tissue re-tore). Then the previous weeks would be negated to start at square one in the count for the disc to heal again. MEDS are only used when there is something to work on. Painful inflammation needs an anti-inflammatory drug. Comfort from pain needs pain meds. When the stop test of Rimadyl proves no inflammation exists, then no meds of any kind are needed. WHEN ARE PAIN MEDS BACKED OFF or FULL STOPPED during a disc episode? Assume a painful disease is, indeed, painful! So pain meds are used right up to the Rimadyl test stop on 5/14. THEN, they are either backed off or full stopped. To go up and down now with pain meds prior to the test stop is not fair to Annibell! If the vet feels he wants to change his guess about a 14-day course of Rimadyl, then the test stop could be at say a 5-7 day mark (5-7 day course) to see if all pain is really gone. No one wants any animal taking Rimadyl one bit past the point when all inflammation is gone. Rimadyl has some serious side effects. Again, I encourage your reading so you have the ability to discuss concerns with the vet, ask good questions, etc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmWhy going up and down with pain meds is not a good idea during a painful disc episode. Stopping of pain meds waits til the Rimadyl test stop for pain. So this is where Dodgerslist comes from here on the Forum about pain...we side with the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA) guidelines : " We can’t always know that our patient does hurt, but we can do our best to ensure that it doesn’t hurt." What other professionals to say about assuming a painful disease IS painful and not withholding pain meds, reducing mgs or frequency during the disc episode, stopping and starting them in days. FILL US IN ON MED LISTWe are really afraid do assume anything about med prescriptions. Getting accurate information means we are at the ready should you mention a problem to provide you with an accurate comment. We are really in the dark as to what the exact changes to the meds were made. Would you cite the date of the changes, the name of the med plus mgs and times per day. What changes did the vet make AND on what date?-- methocarbamol in mgs and how often to give -- gabapentin what mL dose do you give now? how many times a day? -- minocycline how many mgs each dose? how many times a day? Let us know if your advocacy on behalf of Annibell was successful in continuing pain meds til there is a planned stop of Rimadyl to test for pain. Is her pain now fully masked with the adjustments the vet made to her meds?
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Post by Janice & Annibell on May 6, 2020 11:58:56 GMT -7
Hi, Sorry for the delay in reaponse- please see below
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for 14 days, then 5/14 test stop for _pain/_neuro Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day Gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg ▲3x/day Minocycline. ?mg ?x/day Prophylactic Pepcid 5mgs 2x/day]
What changes did the vet make AND on what date? The only change made was to add the 3rd dose of ▲ gabapentinThanks
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 6, 2020 13:27:27 GMT -7
Is the addition of the 3rd dose of gabapentin keeping Annibell pain free?
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Post by Janice & Annibell on May 31, 2020 0:44:28 GMT -7
Hello,
I wanted to follow up on Annibell and get some advice. She's been on the medication for one month as described in this thread. She seemed to be healing well and per the doctor came off the meds on 5/27.
This morning [May 31] she demonstrated signed of pain again (yelped when picked up to pee, not moving). I have medication left over so we started back up tonight and intend to can the vet tomorrow, but wanted to get your thoughts as well about what to do next.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for 30 days, then 5/27 test stop for √5/31_pain/_neuro ✙as of 5/31: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for ? days, then retest ✙Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day STOPPED 5/27; resumed 5/31 ✙ gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg 3x/day STOPPED 5/27; resumed 5/31 Minocycline. ?mg ?x/day UTI Prophylactic Pepcid 5mgs 2x/day]
Thank you!
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Post by Janice & Annibell on May 6, 2020 at 7:47pm via mobile Yes! She is much better the past few days. Now it is just a struggle keeping her from burrowing, trying to roll over in bed, etc. She only has her crate space which fits bed and water/food but her squirming still makes me nervous.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 31, 2020 5:27:16 GMT -7
Pain indicates that there is still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine and still a need for all meds at their original dosages. It usually takes 7-30 days for the swelling to resolve; however, sometimes it can take longer.
Please fill us in more on what's been happening with the meds since you were last on the forum. Originally you had told us that the Rimadyl would be stopped on 5/14. Was a test stop of all meds ever done before 5/27? Did pain arise at that test stop and therefore meds were resumed and again stopped on 5/27?
Has strict crate rest continued since you were last on the forum? Has there been any time when Annibell could have had too much movement of the spine which could have caused more tearing of the not-yet-healed disc, thereby causing the pain?
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Post by Janice & Annibell on May 31, 2020 13:31:33 GMT -7
Hello,
On 5/14, we had our recheck at the doctor and he suggested to continue the meds until 5/27 to give it a full month before taking her off to test (same doses as described below) 5/27 was her first day without meds and she seemed to be okay until yesterday evening when we picked her up and yelped. We have her a round of medication last night and this morning and she seems less in pain today but still but moving much.
We have had her on strict crate rest since the onset. The only time we take her out is to expel her bladder and bowels.
I know these medications are not meant for long term treatment. How long is safe for them to stay on them? What are the other options if the medication doesn't work? As mentioned earlier, based on the lack of results with surgery last time and her age, I wouldn't want to conduct a third surgery.
I appreciate all of your help!
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Post by Ann Brittain on May 31, 2020 15:12:43 GMT -7
Hi Janice, Sorry to hear Annibell is having pain issues. You did the right thing giving her meds yesterday when she showed signs of pain. It's been only slightly over a month since she went down and as Marjorie mentioned in her last post, not all dogs heal at the same rate.
I would call your vet and discuss the need for further pain medication and if it would be recommended for Annibell to stay on the meds longer even if she appears to be pain free. Nature teaches dogs to hide pain to avoid showing weakness in the wild, so we humans have to error on the side of caution to help our pups recover.
Here's a link that discusses pain meds and laser therapy as an alternative treatment. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 31, 2020 16:47:12 GMT -7
Occasionally we see a dog that continues to have swelling/pain and a low dose anti-inflammatory needs to continue past crate rest. Hopefully with another round of a week or so of all meds, Annibell will be able to stop them without pain returning.
Please continue to keep the crate rest very strict, with very few steps at potty time, to allow the damaged disc to heal. If she's moving around too much in the crate, we can give you some ideas on how to calm her so let us know if that's an issue.
Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to them.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Jun 2, 2020 14:35:35 GMT -7
Thanks for the feedback! The doctor said to continue meds for another two weeks and then we will test again and go from there.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for 30 days, then 5/27 test stop for √5/31_pain/_neuro as of 5/31: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 16 days, 6/16 retest stop for _pain/_ neuro Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg 3x/day Minocycline. ?mg ?x/day UTI Prophylactic Pepcid AC® (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
I am having a hard time expelling her bladder the past week and my guess is that it's from the lack of movement in her hind legs (due to the crate rest). I fear she will have a UTI breakout if I cannot expel her every 4-6 hours. Do you have any recommendations to help with this? She currently hasn't expelled urine in almost 10 hours today despite my many efforts.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 2, 2020 14:52:48 GMT -7
I am not sure why you are now having trouble expressing. You may want to try doing it in a different position than usual if you think her back legs are an issue.
Have you ever use any medications to make expressing easier? Prazosin and Phenoxybenzamine are some meds we have seen used to help with expressing.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Jun 30, 2020 0:50:25 GMT -7
Hello,
Thanks for the continued support. I wanted to reach out and get your opinion on long term antinflammatory use. My girl was weened off the medication two weeks ago [6/17] and yesterday the [6/30] flare up returned. She was on strict crate rest the whole time.
This flare up occurred overnight while she was sleeping. The doctor suggested long term use of Rimadyl and the Gabapentin for management. Have you seen this medication used in this way or are their other alternatives you suggest? He's suggesting them at the doses noted above. Thank you!
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for 30 days, then 5/27 test stop for √5/31 pain/_neuro as of 5/31: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 16 days, 6/16 test stop for √6/29 pain/_0 neuro as of 6/29 for new disc episode: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 30 days, 7/29 test stop for _pain/_neuro Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg 3x/day Minocycline. ?mg ?x/day UTI Prophylactic Pepcid AC® (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 30, 2020 5:13:46 GMT -7
Janice, what exactly do you mean by "flare up"? Pain had been completely under control and then returned yesterday? Neuro function worsened? What are you seeing that indicates a "flare up"?
Swelling can usually take 7-30 days to resolve though in a few cases can last longer where long-term low dosages of meds are needed. If in fact all medication stopped two weeks before Annibell's condition worsened and there was no sign of pain during those two weeks, then the worsening is not due to the original swelling not having resolved yet since the medication would have been out of her system long before the worsening. With no pain returning with the stopping of all meds for two weeks, you had proof that the original swelling was gone until yesterday.
Also since graduation date from strict crate rest would have been 6/19, the damage to the disc should now have healed if proper strict crate rest has been done for the full 8 weeks.
This could be a new disc that deteriorated to the point where it ruptured or tore. It could have torn in the night as Annibell re-positioned herself. If in fact that is the case, then the 8 weeks of strict crate rest would have to resume and meds all restarted from the beginning until any new swelling has resolved.
Do you see any difference in the pain, such as pain when eating or reluctance to move her head which would indicate that this might now be a neck injury?
How are you doing expressing Annibell? Could any new pain be the result of the pain of a urinary tract infection? I would take in a urine sample to have it tested for a UTI.
Did the vet examine Annibell since the worsening of her condition yesterday? If not, it may be a good idea to have him see her to determine if any new pain is in a different area of the spine than the original pain - low back, mid back, neck - to help determine if this is a new disc episode.
Healing prayers for Annibell.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Jun 30, 2020 10:15:55 GMT -7
Thanks for the quick response! In regards to the flare up, her neuro function has not declined any further. She also is holding her head up okay. Seeing as this occurred shortly after pooping, I do think this one, whether new or recurring is near the back of her spine, where her other injury had been. The doctor wants to see her in a month if it heals and sooner if any function declines. For now he just renewed the medication the same [?] as before. [Moderator's note: please do not modify 13lbs 12 years old Grad on June 25, New episode grad date August Rimadyl as of 4/30: 12.5mg 2x/day for 30 days, then 5/27 test stop for √5/31 pain/_neuro ➖Off all meds 5/27 (Rimadyl and pain meds) Pain returned 5/31➖ as of 5/31: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 16 days, 6/16 test stop for √6/29 pain/_ neuro
➖Off all meds 6/16 (Rimadyl and pain meds) ➖ ➖ GRAD day 6/25: slowly introducing walking; Pain returned 6/30➖ as of 6/29 : 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 30 days, 7/29 test stop :_pain/_neuro Methocarbamol 125mg 2x/day gabapentin 100mg/mL: 75mg 3x/day Pepcid AC® (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]I was just concerned when he mentioned about Rimadyl long term because I know that can affect their stomach. Is her current dosage too strong for long term? I know you mentioned you have heard of long term low dose antinflammatories as a treatment method. Thank you!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 30, 2020 13:14:15 GMT -7
Just to make sure I understand, the flare up you are referring to is pain when she had previously been pain free while not taking medication? The doctor has again prescribed gabapentin and Rimadyl. With the renewal of these meds, is Annibell now pain free? There are a few dogs that take a low-dose of anti-inflammatory medication for the long term. According to the package insert for Rimadyl. "The recommended dosage for oral administration to dogs is 2 mg/lb (4.4 mg/kg) of body weight daily. The total daily dose may be administered as 2 mg/lb of body weight once daily or divided and administered as 1 mg/lb (2.2 mg/kg) twice daily" animaldrugsatfda.fda.gov/adafda/app/search/public/document/downloadLabeling/404Her current dose follows the above recommendation. For long term use the vet will try to find the lowest dose that will control her pain.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 30, 2020 15:59:47 GMT -7
Just a reminder to be sure to also resume giving Pepcid AC 5mg 2x/day for as long as Annibell is on any dosage of Rimadyl.
It's good that the dosage of the Rimadyl is the same as before as this does sound like a new disc injury and with a new disc injury and new swelling, the anti-inflammatory dosage is needed now to get that swelling down. You only mentioned Rimadyl and Gabapentin so now that the Methocarbamol has been dropped, please do let us know, as Romy asked, if Annibell's pain is completely under control. If not, then do speak to the vet about adding back the Methocarbamol, too.
And please continue with another 8 weeks of strict crate rest to heal any newly damaged disc. I've added the new date to the subject line of this thread.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Jul 1, 2020 16:01:38 GMT -7
Hi, yes she's still on the methocarbamol for two weeks and then he wants to stop using that and keep the Rimadyl and Gabapentin going. She is now pain free on the meds.
Also, yes the flare up I'm referring to is the return of pain, but she was pain free off medicine for two weeks. [Off all meds 6/16 (Rimadyl and pain meds) Pain returned 6/30]
Have you heard of Meloxicam or Galliprant as effective and safer alternatives for long term antinflammatory use? A Facebook group I am part of suggested these and was curious if your thoughts.
Thanks for the Pepcid reminder. I did forget about that.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 1, 2020 18:31:34 GMT -7
June 25th was supposed to be graduation day from the start of crate rest on April 30. Had she still been on STRICT crate rest during those two weeks 6/16-6/30? --- If she had not been on strict rest, what was she allowed to do on graduation day of June 25? All anti-inflammatory drugs have the same side effects as you read each of the brand name drugs at the FDA website: animaldrugsatfda.fda.gov/adafda/views/#/nsaidLabels Galliprant® (Grapiprant) so states in the package insert www.elancolabels.com/us/galliprant-with-tear-off that is was very specifically designed and targeted for arthritis pain. Dodgerslist was in attendance at a pain seminar. The manufacturer's representative said Galliprant should not be used for IVDD. There have been no studies nor research with Galliprant® use in IVDD. Rimadyl (carprofen), Metacam (meloxidyl) and other canine NSAIDS are more of a "broad spectrum" anti-inflammatory that CAN target inflammation of IVDD.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Jul 2, 2020 7:44:16 GMT -7
She was on crate rest until 6/25 when we then start to introduce light walking ( I used the dodgers list literature go ween her back into walking.) [➖ 6/16 off all meds(Rimadyl and pain meds) ➖ ➖ GRAD day 6/25: slowly introducing walking; 6/29 pain returned ➖ Rimadyl as of 6/29 : 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 30 days, 7/29 test stop :_pain/_neuro] Thank you for your thoughts on the medication!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 2, 2020 8:48:41 GMT -7
Jance, could it be Annibell overdid re-introduction back to walking a little too much for her?
Maybe also she was more active in her recovery suite leading up when you picked her up and yelped on 6/29?
Maybe she does not need Rimadyl and pain meds every day for 30 days, if it were to be muscle soreness that was going on.
Maybe you could monitor her in her safe in her recovery suite and see if w/o meds she is not tender, not yelping if picked up? I know the first reaction is always to think it is a new disc episode going on. What are your thoughts on this idea to monitor w/o meds in the recovery suite? Meds can always be resumed immediately upon proof it is not muscle soreness but pain from a new disc episode.
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Aug 4, 2020 0:20:55 GMT -7
Hello,
Thanks for all of the help! I wanted to make a donation to your website. Is there an option anywhere to do so?
Thanks Janice
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Mary & Mila
Helpful Member
FEMALE— DACHSHUND
Posts: 218
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Post by Mary & Mila on Aug 4, 2020 3:30:37 GMT -7
Hi Janice That is very kind of you, thank you. We appreciate all donations as they go a long way to help us educate others on IVDD. Here is a link to the subscriptions part of our website. dodgerslist.com/aid-effort/As you will see you can send a donation directly, purchase something from our store, we also have an online quarterly digest, with interesting stories and articles, so take a look and see what suits you best. kind regards Mary
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 4, 2020 5:03:30 GMT -7
Hi, Janice. So kind of you to want to make a donation to Dodgerslist - much appreciated!
Can you bring us up to date on Annibell's status? Was a determination ever made as to whether Annibell indeed was having another disc episode or whether she was experiencing muscle soreness? If a new disc episode, is she still on crate rest? What meds, if any, is she still taking?
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Post by Janice & Annibell on Aug 4, 2020 15:44:53 GMT -7
Hello,
I just donated via the PayPal link- thanks for the info!
The vet has her on the Rimadyl and the Gabapentin. We believe it was another disc either near the other site or reinjury of the original one. We are going to try taking her off again at the end of August, which would be another 2 months of medication and see if it is heeled. She is on crate rest until that time as well.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit weight? ➖ 6/16 off all meds(Rimadyl and pain meds) ➖ ➖ GRAD day 6/25: slowly introducing walking; 6/29 pain returned ➖ Rimadyl as of 6/29 : 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 30 days, 7/29 test stop :_pain/_neuro as of 7/29: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 30 days 7/28 test stop: pain gabapentin ?mg ?x/day Pepcid AC on board with Rimadyl?]
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