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Post by Whitney & Scout on Mar 15, 2020 12:01:02 GMT -7
Scout needs help
> > > Our Scout needs help as she currently can’t use her back legs.
Scout is a 2 year old, rescue Lab/Husky mix, approximately 50-60 pounds. My family has had her for most of her life.
Scout has enjoyed good health and we’ve experienced no health issues with her until now. Today she had her annual and short of her injuries (detailed below), she is in “perfect health”.
On March 4th, approximately 9 pm, she stood up and we noticed she was wobbly. Soon after, my husband noticed that she couldn’t seem to stand at all. Immediately prior to that, she had been doing her usual activities of interacting with the family, alternating with her high energy running around. We have hard wood floors inside and cement and grass on the ground outside.
We immediately took her to the ER vet, where xrays were taken. From the xrays, they saw “no structural damage” in her back. She initially had no deep pain sensation, although some has returned. A CT scan was suggested to check to see if she had a slipped disk or stroke. The next morning they recommended against it.
What we’ve been told is that it’s possibly an embolism in her back, that “kind of clogged it”.
Scout is paralyzed in both back legs, and does not have bladder control. She is pooping small pieces, and we think this is because she’s still tapering off the Prednisone. We are expressing her regularly and have received training from an experienced rescue person on how to do this more effectively to insure no leakage, and most important, to minimize any risk of infection. We carry her to and from the yard, and anywhere else she goes. Since it’s spring break, my husband has been home to do this, for now. Scout is mostly laying on her bed, and is not attempting to get up on her own, at all. This last part has concerned a rescue friend who has a sanctuary for disabled animals. She’ll sit up and when outside, she’ll want to go inside.
Currently, Scout is receiving a number of high quality supplements as well as
PT sessions on a once a week basis. We are also doing exercises on her, including such as massaging her feet, doing squats with her, moving her leg, and another vet suggested pinching toes for nerve triggering.
We are also talking about getting a cart for her, providing we can 100% rule out any back/IVDD issues.
My friend Laurel Ley suggested that I share about Scout here, in the event that you’all may have some insights as to what we MUST do, what we should NOT do. Again, we were told from the ER vet, based on xrays, that she doesn’t have back issues except they thinking it’s an embolism in the back. However, Laurel is wondering, based on what Scout’s symptoms are presenting as (bilateral paralysis versus unilateral) … what she’s learned from Dodgers List over 2 decades, and from Linda, and her own experience … if maybe there isn’t something going on with her back, nerves, etc. Don’t want to be doing exercises or cart therapy if we can inadvertently be harming her.
Our family is so devoted to Scout, and we want to do what’s best for her … without subjecting her to unnecessary tests that wouldn’t impact treatment.
Thank you so much for your assistance.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2020 12:40:02 GMT -7
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2020 13:45:08 GMT -7
Whitney, welcome to the Forum. First thing if there is any doubt that this may be a disc episode, you would err on the side of caution to protect a damaged disc by doing ver STRICT crate rest, no water therapy, no cart. Xray do not proove a disc episode so a vet can not base a no disc episode diagnosis on an xray. Xray does not show the spinal cord nor the disc (soft tissue). Xrays show hard tissue such as bone. Here at the Forum we are always dependent on a vet diagnosing the disease. IF a damage disc were to be the cause or even suspected to be the cause of neuro damage, then we know how to offer many ideas for at home care. XRAYsXrays would be used not to proove a disc episode but rather to rule out other things that mimic signs of disc disease, such as broken vertebrae, a tumor, bone infection, etc. While xrays can't proove a disc episode, it maybe/might provide suspicion of one with an unusual spacing of vertebrae. a good DIAGNOSIS dictates the right treatmentThere is great need to know, now, for sure what Scout has --compressed cord due to a bad disc that needs to heal with rest OR --a compressed cord due to an embolism where it would be safe to have PT under the direction of a vet.) It may be worth getting a more firm diagnosis from an expert with advanced knowledge, a Neuro surgeon with the credentials of ACVIM (neurology). The care and treatment for FCE can be VERY different from that care required during a disc episode. IVDD requires STRICT rest, no PT, limited movement of the back so the disc can form scar tissue... that process is lengthy of about 8 weeks. How to find either an ortho specialist or a Neuro specialist to consult with as 2nd opinion on a diagnosis: find.vetspecialists.comIF there is any hint/suspicion this may be a disc episode then PT would have to wait til the disc healed. FCE (Fibrocartilaginous embolism) , also known as ischemic myelopathy
FCE is like a spinal cord stroke. A blood vessel to the spinal cord becomes blocked and lack of blood and nutrients to the cord causes nerve damage. More information from Neurosurgeon Dr. Wong (ACVIM, Neurology): sevneurology.com/pet-parents/conditions-we-treat/fibrocartilaginous-embolism/ -- hopefully as a jumping off place for you to explore more about the diagnosis Scout received. QUESTIONS1) Was she in pain on March 4th in addition to being wobbly? Is she in any pain currently?
2) What date did she become paralhyzed in both back legs and lost bladder control?
3) Are you expressing for poop as well as expressing her bladder? Video and tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm
4) What does the once a week PT session include?
SIGNS OF PAIN with a disc episode:
◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ not their normal perky selves ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions |
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Post by Linda Stowe on Mar 15, 2020 19:21:10 GMT -7
Hi Whitney, Linda here from Frisco. I've been talking with Laurel and if possible, I think it would be wise to take Scout for a neuro exam. I know of one very good neuro in Lewisville, Dr. Julie Ducote, DVM, ACVIM, Neurology She is very expensive for surgery, but you could just go for a consult to try to get an accurate diagnosis. I found another one: Jennifer Rich DVM, ACVIM, Neurology at MedVet in Dallas. I'm not that familiar with her.
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Post by Whitney & Scout on Mar 24, 2020 21:06:16 GMT -7
Thank you [Linda]!!! Thank you Paula! 1) Was she in pain on March 4th in addition to being wobbly? Is she in any pain currently? 2) What date did she become paralyzed in both back legs and lost bladder control?
She was not in any pain beforehand. Within a 5 min time span she went from walking to falling down.
3) Are you expressing for poop as well as expressing her bladder? Video and tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm
4) What does the once a week PT session include?
We have been taking her to therapy and they are seeing some progression. Both her legs have started to shake. |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 25, 2020 5:09:57 GMT -7
Whitney, were you able to get Scout into a neurologist for an exam? Have you obtained a firm diagnosis yet?
Shaking or trembling can be a sign of pain and is not a typical sign of nerve healing with IVDD. A sign of nerve healing would be a movement made by a nerve connection with the brain, such as Scout's brain telling her legs to move in order to re-position herself or to try to scratch her head. I'm not very familiar with FCE so do not know whether leg shaking would be a sign of healing from FCE though I would think that nerve healing would be similar whether due to IVDD or FCE.
Do you see any other possible signs of pain? Signs of pain to be aware of: ◻︎ restless, can’t find a comfortable position
◻︎reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions
◻︎shivering-trembling ◻︎yelping when picked up or moved
◻︎slow to move ◻︎tight tense tummy
◻︎arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground.
◻︎not their normal perky selves
What type of therapy is Scout receiving?
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