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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Jul 31, 2013 18:30:53 GMT -7
I have a Yorkie who is 3 she's my baby and I hate seeing her like this  I'll start from the start. On the 19th of May we took her to het favourite place the park, when she was walking on the grass she stood on a stick and yelped but seemed fine after it. All that night she was her normal self. The next morning she seemed to be staying in her bed (not like her) so we didn't think much of it do to cheer her up a bit we decided to take her to the park, she seemed fine there then when we got home she went to her bed again and then she couldn't get back out
So the next morning we took her to the vet and she referred us to a neurologist. He examined her and said it was most likely a slipped disc and we haf two choices a x ray or a mri. We opted for the x ray dye thing and then if results weren't clear a mri. So he kept her in and was going to do the x ray that night, he rung and said it was unclear and a mri would give a better result so we said yes. The next day the mri scanner came and she got her mri. He phoned us with the results and said she has a ruptured disc and also something in her spinal cord, but he thinks the disc wouldnt be causing her problems she also has no bladder control. So he said the best thing is to put her to sleep. The thought of that ripped me apart so we had a long think about it and decided not to and give her a chance. So we went up the next day and he showed us the mri scans and in her spinal cord there was white shading which shouldn't be there. But she also has a ruptured disc. He says the white stuff is myelopathy in her spine but I done research and degenerative myelopathy is a gradual thing and I highly doubt its that but stumbled across something called ischaemic myelopathy. Has anyone heard of this? I'm still worried why he won't operate on a ruptured disc! But anyways now to this date she is getting theopy and is slightly improving. She went from not beimg able to put any pressure on her hind legs to standing up and pushing herself along with them. She has always had deep pain sensation but its weak. I am just wondering if anyone has any advice and would the op help her recover more? I just want my baby to walk at her favourite place again!!  |
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 31, 2013 18:54:40 GMT -7
Hi welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Jen. Is it Becca? I'm sorry to hear about Bonnie is it? I know how stressful all this can be. The single best thing you can do for her is 100% STRICT crate rest for 8 weeks. Only out to potty. Is she in any pain? Yelping, tight belly, shaking? Is she on any medications? If so please share the names and doses she is on. Is she eating, drinking okay? Peeing, pooping okay?
I know how tough the beginning is. Hang in there. 8 weeks of rest sounds like a long time but it acts just like a cast to restrict her movement to allow her disk to heal. I would also seek a second opinion from another vet. Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way.
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Jul 31, 2013 19:29:42 GMT -7
Hi jen Thanks for replying the vet has put her on hydrotherapy should we keep going with it and she's got no pain and no medication
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 31, 2013 19:37:55 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Becca! Please let your Bonnie know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmYes I do believe a second opinion is in order. Here is some info on how to find a Vet that is experienced in IVDD if that is what she has. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmIn order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? -- What was the date you started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? This is very important Becca, get Bonnie into a crate and resting ASAP so her disc can begin the healing process and not be further injured. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. -- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail due when you do some happy talk? -- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color and firmness no dark or bright red blood? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all meds and there is no pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. Let us know how things are going and that you have dear Bonnie on crate rest while you are making arrangements for a second opinion.. Take care.. |
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 31, 2013 19:40:08 GMT -7
I think that if the X rays showed a disc issue that you should do the crate rest for 8 weeks to restrict her movement for the disc to heal. It can do more harm than good right now.. Then start the therapy. Her disks need to heal before she starts moving to much. I really would seek a second opinion.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 31, 2013 20:17:45 GMT -7
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 1, 2013 5:28:18 GMT -7
Hi paulina we haven't done crate rest because vet advised physiotherapy for her. She has no pain and moves her back legs a lot, her tail moves very slightly when shes happy. She does leak when picked up and eating and drinking normally.her poops look normal too . Thanks for all the support I'll have a look into laser light theopy and acupuncture Definitely going to seek a second opinion on this. Thanks everyone Just worried why he won't do the surgery on her disc when he said its ruptured. Im sure it has to be causing her some difficulties |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Aug 1, 2013 10:48:21 GMT -7
Perhaps he won't do surgery because of the time lapse between the incident May 19 and now, because of healing and scar tissue formation? I really don't know, and that Vet should have explained things to you a whole lot better! Dealing with IVDD or any injury or disease is hard enough for pet parents without having to cope with a Vet that won't explain or clarify things for them (and telling you to put her to sleep is unforgivable/idiotic/and WRONG!)I hope that you have success with your second opinion. If that Vet thinks that you still have an active problem with the disc then you can decide about surgery or crate rest. When did the hydrotherapy start? This type of rehab is usually done after the disc has had a chance to heal. Please keep us posted on what the new Vet says! Keeping you in thought and prayer |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 1, 2013 12:23:08 GMT -7
Becca, often FCE as it is referred to here is something the larger dogs predominently can get, not likely is was for Bonnie. You can read more here from Dr. Wong about the symptoms, etc sevneurology.com/articles/fibrocartilaginous-embolismThe rupture was in May and now that disc is well healed an no need of crate rest at this point. At the time of the ruptured disc that would be when 100% STRICT crate rest should have been done to allow positive heaing. Nerve damage on the other hand just takes time to let the body regenerate nerve endings. It sounds like you ARE seeing signs of nerve healing with the ability to wag the tail with joy and being able to move up into a standing position. Keep up with the PT Just to clarify…. Bonnie is not currently experiencing a disc episode evidence by being in pain, shivering, trembling, yelping?? the reason for an operation would be be relieve pressure on the spinal cord from a disc that is causing pain and at the same time there is serious nerve damage. Are you expressing her bladder now, how often? Or has she passed the sniff and pee test proving she does have bladder control? Set her on an old pee spot and see if she will sniff and the release urine. |
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 1, 2013 13:13:10 GMT -7
Hi paula I hope it is the nerves coming back, she took a few steps the other day at the park!! She seems to just dribble and when I do try and express her there seems to be nothing there. Would you know what the stuff in her spine is then the vet wasn't too clear about it.
Hi stevie he wouldn't do the surgery at the time it happened.i was heart broken when he said about putting her to sleep. I want to get a second opinion on it all but he's the only specialist where I live so its hard to get a proper good neurologist opinion. The hydrotherapy started around 3 weeks ago once a week. It seemed to help a lot as before she couldn't stand by her own or even shuffle with her legs, now she seems to stand a lot easier and can shuffle her legs by pushing off eith her foot sometimes she even takes a fee steps then falls down. Her right leg is a lot stronger than her left leg. I will for sure keep everyone posted and thank you so much.. really helped me get a better deal of whats happening
Another thing to add when I squeeze near her hips she shoots forward im not sure if shes in pain or not or is just a reflex?
Paula, I tried the sniff and pee and it seemed like she did pee when she smelt it but walking around the gardrn she was dribbling as well so not too sure
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Post by jochs311 on Aug 1, 2013 18:21:24 GMT -7
Becca when you squeeze her it sounds as if she may be in pain. Does she show any other signs of pain? Poor. Baby.
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 1, 2013 18:47:57 GMT -7
No only her left hip area and under her paws. Any ideas on what could be causing her the pain?
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Aug 1, 2013 18:58:24 GMT -7
Hi Becca,
My name is Yvonne and my Cocker Billy is going to graduate his crate rest in two weeks. I just wanted to send you hugs and good thoughts. When our fur-babies are ill there is nothing more heartbreaking and stressful. You are a great mommy!
This, too, shall pass. =)
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 1, 2013 19:03:29 GMT -7
Hi Yvonne so sorry to hear about Billy it is so hard to see them like this breaks my heart. Thank you I just want the best for her you are a great fur mommy too!! Hugs and great thoughts to you too!! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 1, 2013 20:31:31 GMT -7
Becca, has she had a recent urinalysis… dribbling can be a sign of infection (UTI)
"The white area is myelopathy"…. myelopathy is damage to the spinal cord caused by the disc.
Hard to say what the movement after pressing near the hips is. A PT person who could observe would likely be able to give you an answer.
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 2, 2013 4:30:47 GMT -7
Okay will take her to vet asap to get checked out and the vet never said it could have been the disc that caused the myelopathy. So if he fixed the disc would the myelopathy go away or would it constantly be there. I will ask him all this nrxt time I see him. But im honestly thinking of changing vets he doesn't seem yo be too concerned about her and never explained any of this to us. Thanks so much |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 2, 2013 9:12:19 GMT -7
Becca, the damage the disc caused IS spinal cord injury and that is what showed on the MRI. You witnessed the damage to the spinal cord as not being able to get out of bed and the loss of bladder control. The body is a miraculous self healing machine, it can regenerate nerves just as you have witnessed, with leg movements with the water therapy. It just takes time for nerve healing to happen as nerves can be the slowest part of the body to heal. It is much easier to speak with vets, ask questions and have an understanding of what they say, when you are up to speed on disc disease. Have you started your self-education program? Have you clicked all the color buttons from yellow, orange, blue to green? www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm |
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 2, 2013 10:50:13 GMT -7
Thank you video was very informative
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Aug 16, 2013 10:03:45 GMT -7
UPDATE! Bonnie went to her hydrotherapy session and loved it for the first time! Netti her therapist was very happy with how she's come along.. was such a momemt seeing her enjoying it . Her bladder seems to be holding longer so hopefully on the mend too! Though everything wasn't so happy yesterday as I found out another dog there had to go to doggy heaven tho netti reassured us that he had other problems too and not just his legs. |
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Post by Pauliana on Aug 16, 2013 20:23:15 GMT -7
Hi Becca, Very glad Bonnie is doing so well with her hydrotherapy session and is even enjoying them now. Sorry to hear about the other dog that passed away.. Keep up the good care with Bonnie! |
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Feb 9, 2014 6:05:14 GMT -7
Hi everyone just an update on Bonnie. She is still down but improving! We are taking her to acupuncture and laser and her acupuncturist has high hopes for her. She walks on her sling and has her leg function back just the rebuild of muscle now (I hope) she still does not have control over her bowels and bladder but I do think it is regaining strength again as her pee pads are never hardly wet much more and when we take her outside she pees!, but what I was gonna ask was when we do our muscle strength work and reflex exercises she kicks her legs and stands up when I squeeze her tail near the middle/tip. Anyone know why this is? |
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Feb 11, 2014 21:44:13 GMT -7
Hi Becca! Great to hear an update on Bonnie! When you take Bonnie outside, do you see her sniff an old pee spot and then pee? That's the way we humans can tell if bladder control is returning. The great thing is that there is no "expiration date" for healing! "There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag! 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run." www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmIs the "muscle strength work" exercise you described (squeezing her tail) an exercise a physical therapist familiar with IVDD instructed you to do? If so, I would call the therapist and describe what is happening. My dog has never seen a canine physical therapist, so I am not familiar with what exercises are prescribed. But I would hate to hear that Bonnie injured herself reacting to that exercise! Personally, I would not do an exercise that makes Bonnie react to the extent that you describe until I could discuss this thoroughly with the therapist. ))Hugs!(( |
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Post by Becca & Bonnie on Feb 15, 2014 11:15:55 GMT -7
She said it won't be doing any harm to her so if it gets her to stand up then keep going! See I'm a bit confused on the smell and pee thing.. she sometimes smells her pee on the ground and then pees other times she doesn't. Tail wag isn't really there yet but she has movement in her legs. She can push herself along and then get up to and standing position. We do water therapy at home in a kids paddling pool which she seems to enjoy she can get up in the pool and walk staggering to the other side. She seems to have skipped a few of the healing process. Just hope for that tail wag that shows she's happy not just a reflex. |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 19, 2014 19:50:44 GMT -7
Moved from private message: Hi pauliana I dunno if you remember but you were a great help in bonnies condition.. I just have some questions hopefully you'll be able to answer Its been nearly a year now aand bonnie has improved from not being able to put any pressure to being able to pressure and to move her legs on a strap when we take her on her walkies.. her bladder and bowel function still hasn't returned do you think it will? We put diapers on het so she can roam the house by pushing herself along some days I just think are we letting her suffer with maybe no end result we want.. I love her so much and I know I shouldn't let it get to me but sometimes it does . She has a lot more reflex now and she can take 5 or 6 strps by herself then falls down again. The incontinence is the main issue.. I just hope that comes back very soon ig it does come back.. any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Becca  |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 19, 2014 19:52:36 GMT -7
Hi Becca, Thanks for the update on Bonnie, and your kind comments. : ) I will add your note to her thread so you can hopefully get other answers than just mine. Dodgerslist policy is to not do private messaging because it limits you to just one reply instead of getting the feed back from all the moderators as well as members who have great imput as well. Basically nerve damage takes a long time to heal, depending on the injury.. It can take weeks, months or even years and some don't heal.. It's all based on the severity of the injury and the individual dog. Lisa, a moderator here had her dog walk after 11 months.. Here is Goosie's story for inspiration: www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory/goosieSullivan.htmBonnie is happy as long as she has your loving care.. Believe me, dogs don't look at not being able to walk the same way we would. Dogs just pick up and do what they can..and don't worry about what they can't do and they never give up. I hope it will help you to think that she doesn't view her lot in life as being so bad.. Your IVDD dog can have a great quality of life: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 20, 2014 10:03:31 GMT -7
Becca, some dogs do not follow the classic order of nerves returning.
Can Bonnie wag her tail specifically if you do some happy talk to her?
Diapers per se may not be a good idea unless she is really not leaking in them but using them as padded butt protection. Does she leak in the diapers? How often do you express her?
What is the last date for a urinalysis. UTIs can cause leaking/dribbling.
Have you recently done the sniff and pee test? Take her out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let her sniff and then observe for release of urine. Does she do that? Or do you find urine leaks in the diapers, the floor, the bedding.
Would you say that Bonnie is back to her normal perky self, enjoying gobbling down her dinners, liking to be near you as you move about the house? My observation is that it is people who have a difficult time with what they perceive is a DISability....Bonnie sees things very differently...she considers herself handiCAPABLE. It does not matter how she gets from point A to B...the important thing is she CAN get there.
We hope to hear back from you in detail about which incontinent issues are the problem.
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I'll start from the start. 
