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Post by truckdrivingchic on Jul 27, 2013 13:39:56 GMT -7
I have a dachshund, Brutus, who went down 3 weeks ago. I learned from on here to crate him and get him to the vet. We did that. The vet said it was his stomache, gave him steroid shot and sent him home. We left him in the crate that night. Mind you he was still walking around but was in pain. The next day we took him back to the vet because he was still in pain. I knew it wasn't his stomach. He was having problems walking up the dog stairs. So this time the other vet did more tests and discovered it was his back possibly but not for sure. Steroid shot again, pills and back in the crate. 2 days later he was up walking around like normal and not having any problems. He was running around and not having any issues. Well I drive a truck and had to go to work leaving him with his brothers and sisters and husband. I got a call from my husband that Brutus was dragging his back end around and he was freaking out. Ok, take him to the vet asap I told him. He did. Our vet now says its for sure his back. Only vets around to take care of this are 2 hours away and it was way to hot to travel with him.
We spoke to the vet we wanted to take him to and he told us that Brutus should be fine for a few days until we can get down there. We were doing everything right. Pain meds, steroids and crate all times except to use bathroom. He's going Monday to the vet. What my question is....and hoping everyone can help me out here, is do most dogs with back problems still wag their tails? The vet tells us its great he's still wagging his tail, but he does pee and poop on himself. Not much control over that end of things. I'm worried about him very much. I live in a rural area and not many vets around here have experience with back issues in dogs. I just got home today and got to check Brutus out myself and my husband tries to clean him up when he has an accident but he still has red spots on his belly I assume from his accidents but I feel so bad for Brutus. Any suggestions or knowledge is greatly appreciated. Ive read everything on dodgerslist but still.....I need more info from people who have been through this. I want to do everything I can for my guy!! Thanks so much!!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2013 19:32:39 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Paula what is yours? Let's start over with some details that can help us to better support you -- Are you currently doing THE all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and frequencies given? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. -- Currently can your dog move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off of all meds and not in pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine (bladder control( or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up (lost badder control)? While on pred you would need to take him out to potty if he has control every 3-4 hours. If he does not have control he needs to be expressed every 2-3 hours. He may already have a bladder infection if you've not been expressing and he had no control. -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood? -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.htmlYou can win this battle by knowing the enemy. Reading will be your tool to fight. This page is for everyone caring for Brutus…a good overview and animation: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmContinue reading to learn what neuro functions you are to watch for, learn about surgery. All of the articles are excellet preparation to advocating for Brutus' needs and speaking with veterinary professionals: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmLook forward to learning more about Brutus with your answers. |
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Post by truckdrivingchic on Aug 1, 2013 20:40:46 GMT -7
Hi, I apologize that it took me so long to reply. I drive a truck over the road and just got in. My name is Jennifer. So about Brutus....
He is eating, drinking like normal.
He does wag his tail all the time. He is now trying to stand some but still has issues with his left side.
He is on 100% crate rest. Only out on potty pad to pee and poo. He doesn't have control over pee but will fuss and pull his blanket in his crate and bark when he has to poo. But when he does poo, its soft and super stinky.
He took his last pain pill today. The vet had him on Tramadol 50 mg 1/2 tab every 12 hours.
The prednisone they started him on was 5mg twice day for 3 days, one tab once day 3 days then 1 every other day. Before we got that one finished, they gave us stronger ones that were 20mg 1/2 tab 2x day for 5 days, 1/2 tab 1x day for another 5 days then 1/2 tab every other day for 5 days then back to the 5mg tabs every other day.
Tonight when we got in the house we found him standing in his crate on his own. When he is out, he does try to stand but ends up down on his left side.
I feel bad but he hasn't seen a specialist as we have had some serious financial problems in the past few weeks that we have to decide whether to make sure all our other dogs have food, ect or what to do. The vet he needs to go to is 1 1/2 hours away and it just hasn't been possible. We have been in contact with them and doing everything they told us to do. We were told that his tail wagging is a great sign and more than likely its not a disk issue but I am super concerned as he isn't responding like I thought he would. I did ask about Pepcid but were told he didn't need it. I asked could we do it anyway and were told no Pepcid. I know he needs to get to the vet soon but they want $300 on the first visit and right now that just isn't possible and I feel like I'm failing him as his mommy and it just tears me up. I am trying to read as much as I have time to. I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
Any suggestions or ideas of what I'm missing, ect??? Thanks!!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 1, 2013 21:03:19 GMT -7
Jennifer, trying to stand is very good news. Nerves heal on their own timeline, and we just can't have expectations on when things "should" happen. You are doing the single most important part of conservative treatment… the 100% STRICT rest to let the disc heal in 8 weeks. That is a GOOD thing!!! Nerves may or may not fully heal in that time, so there is lots of time for nerve healing to continue after crate rest. The focus right now is the proper environment of limited movement so the disc can heal.
So he is off Prednisone as well as all pain meds?
Has Brutus passed the sniff and pee test to show he has bladder control? Are you expressing his bladder, every how many hours? Does he stay dry. Dogs can feel poop moving through and they will become anxious. You can express for poop as well as urine to avoid them having distasteful accidents where they sleep. Soft and stinky poop can be from diet change or from the damage pred can do to the GI tract. What was the last date he took pred?
If he is not in pain, feeling like his old self, off all meds, then there is not a reason to see a vet. He just needs to finish his crate rest…. that does not cost anything.
Use a sling at potty time, you do not want his butt to fall over while he is so unstable…gotta protect the back, keep his spine aligned. Use a long scarf or belt as back up should you see him start to tip over.
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Post by truckdrivingchic on Aug 4, 2013 14:11:32 GMT -7
Sorry it took me so long to reply. We had another dachshund have an anal gland rupture and been having a disagreement with our vet as she won't flush it out or anything. Didn't even clean it up or anything. And its still full and hard. So been looking for a new vet for her.
As for Brutus, he is still on ▼ Prednisone 5mg every other day and Tramadol every 12 hours. He will stand for short times but still not on his own and seems his left side isn't working well. He doesn't sniff and pee but he hasn't been having accidents in his crate like he was, he seems to be waiting until we take him out which is every 2-3 hours. He starts to fuss when he has to go. Our vet said to keep him on those meds for now and see how he does. He tries to scoot across the floor to come see me and he really wants up on the couch but we don't let him. We don't take him outside to use bathroom but rather put him on a potty pad as he seems to be ok with that. I noticed that his back legs won't bend sometimes too. Should we be thinking about taking him to the vet to get checked out or a cart? I just wanna make sure we do what is right for him. I did ask about the Pepcid again and our vet said hes on such a low dose of pred that he will be ok. A friend that has gone through this with his dog suggested that we put him on valum (sp?) instead of tramadol. Would that be better for him?
Thanks for all the help!! |
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Post by Pauliana on Aug 4, 2013 19:38:31 GMT -7
Hi Jennifer, Brutus shouldn't use a cart until 8 weeks crate rest is over.. The focus for now is healing the disc. Valium is a relaxant or anti anxiety drug and Tramadol is a pain medication. It would depend on what his issues are now on what medications to give him. Is he still showing signs of pain, trembling, yelping, tight hard tummy, reluctance to move? Is Brutus anxious or having trouble being calm in the crate? Is he doing well on the Prednisone taper? If he is on Prednisone he should have Pepcid 30 minutes before and if his poop is still soft he is having stomach problems due to the Prednisone.. Many vets aren't proactive about preventing problems before they happen. It's better to prevent a stomach ulcer than to have to cure it after it happens. A disc problem is more than enough to deal with.. Our Vet at Purdue University Veterinary teaching Hospital said that dogs with IVDD are prone to stomach acid problems and when they have to be treated with Steroids or NSAIDS for IVDD treatment, they are even more vulnerable to Ulcers and stomach bleeds. She sent our dog home with Pepcid AC along with his other medications. They are teaching the next generation of Vets and are at the forefront of the latest treatments.. We now buy it over the counter at the drug store and keep it around just in case. Here is an article about what to look for in a new Vet.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm |
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Post by truckdrivingchic on Aug 4, 2013 20:02:06 GMT -7
Brutus doesn't appear to be in any pain anymore. His poop is solid now also. He does get a little anxious sometimes being in his crate but seems to be ok. We are going to talk to another vet in the morning about my other dog and Brutus so hopefully will have some different answers on everything. He does try to walk/scoot across the floor so fast that sometimes he's on the other side of the room before we know it and realize he's gone. He's a little sneaky sometimes. I'm just concerned about the bladder issue. He did have a crate accident tonight but think that's mostly because my husband didn't leave him out long enough to pee. I will let you know what we are told tomorrow. Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Aug 4, 2013 23:17:30 GMT -7
He should always be in a harness and on leash when he's out of the crate. There shouldn't be any opportunities for him to scoot across the floor at all. Are you keeping him on 100% crate rest, only out for potty breaks?
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Post by truckdrivingchic on Aug 17, 2013 15:57:34 GMT -7
Wanted to let you know we spoke to the Vet that is doing the study at the U in Iowa last week. He was very encouraging to us. My husband spoke to him for almost an hour and I was pleased with the results. They did tell us we need to wait at least 2-3 more weeks to see how Brutus improves as we put him back on ▲prednisone high dose round again. Dr. Nicholas told my husband that what we were doing right with conservative treatment and from what we are telling him that Brutus sounds like he had a disc slip and it is healing on its own. Brutus is standing quite often and when we let him out, he takes off to his normal potty pad. I wasn't too happy he got loose in the house and but the vet told us that if Brutus is wanting to walk and such, to let him so that he doesn't lose muscle in his back legs. He is still on crate rest for a while longer but when we let him out of his crate, he goes to his potty pad and uses the water dish. He is quite happy and has a great attitude and misses hanging out with his bff. We are hoping that in a few weeks he will be a good candidate for the study at the U of Iowa and that will help him more.
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Post by Pauliana on Aug 17, 2013 19:40:38 GMT -7
Hi Jennifer, The back leg muscles will come back quickly after crate rest is over. As Pollysmom mentioned he should be on a harness and leash when out of the crate to to keep him under control. You don't want to undo all the healing that has taken place if he should do the unexpected like they all do in the blink of an eye... Wonderful that he may join the U of Iowa in a few weeks and the conversation with the Vet was encouraging.  Here is an easy way to have water available for Brutus in the crate..  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 18, 2013 14:11:05 GMT -7
Jennifer, everything in life is a weighing of the risk vs. benefits. Same with conservative treatment… it weighs the risk of movement of walking around which could likely cause permanent nerve damage that may never be repaired and saves the benefits of walking around for after crate rest when it is safe because the disc has healed properly. So the decision is to keep muscles bulked up by walking around when it is not safe for an early healing disc and risky for the spinal cord OR do everything possible to protect the spinal cord to give Brutus every possible chance at the best recovery.
Here is what is safe after Brutus is off all meds and pain free. Look at the information highlighted in PINK and the red numbered range of motion and massage you could do at home if he were off all his meds and pain free.
What is the new high dose of pred…what is the dose in mg and the frequency you give it and what date did he go back on pred?
Was going back on Pred related to the time he escaped and scooted across the room on Aug 4? Was he showing signs of pain. Can you fill us in?
For conservative treatment to work it really demands commitment of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out of the recovery suite to be carried to and from the potty place. In other words you are doing everything you can to limit the movement of the back.
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