|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 25, 2013 17:39:42 GMT -7
Hello. I'm Pamela. Two weeks ago today, I came home to Corey, my 6 year old Dachsie, with the front half of his body through my pet door and the rear part outside, him not moving. This was the very first incident I have had with him having any back issues. The vet said he needed surgery. I have no $7,000, so I elected to do the crate method. He has been crated since last Thursday. He is on methocarbamol, tramadol, and prednisone. He DOES have deep pain sensation. My vet thinks it is unlikely he will walk again. I'm staying positive and feeling he WILL walk again. It is now 2 weeks. He is eating great, drinking plenty, due to prednisone, still peeing in crate, still pooping in crate. He DOES pee and poop OUT of the crate, but won't, if I'm manually touching him. He will go, if I leave him alone, so he can maneuver himself into place. He is only moving not more than 2 feet or so to do this, but yes, he does drag his back legs to get in place. If I hold his rear up, he just won't go. He is stubborn. I have tried the sling, 2 leash handles around his legs, my hand holding up his rear, to be straight. Is it too soon for me to expect anything at all, in improvement? How else can I get him to go potty, if he won't let me hold him in position? I read...patience patience patience. I noticed that when I do put him down to potty, he is suddenly standing for about 10 pr more seconds, on his rear feet. He doesn't flop down immediately. Yes, he is always in crate, no sleeping on bed, walking around, sitting on lap.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Jul 25, 2013 20:40:32 GMT -7
Hi Pamela, Welcome to Dodgerslist! Sorry to hear Corey is having an IVDD episode. Wonderful you started 100% crate rest last Thursday. Good for you! That means 7 more weeks to go.. REGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. I know patience is very hard to have when you are anxious to see improvement.. Been there, done that with my own dog, Tyler. I got so excited with every improvement, no matter how small. Thanks for letting us know the medications he is taking, please let us know the dosages and the frequencies given. Are you also giving Pepcid AC 30 minutes prior to the Prednisone, giving the Prednisone also with food to protect Corey's stomach. Please ask the vet this way: Is there any medical reason why Corey can't take Pepcid AC. We follow Vets that are proactive in protecting our dog's stomachs. IVDD is enough to deal without serious stomach issues. The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. Sounds like Corey wants to potty his own way.. Sounds to me like he is improving since he stands once you put him in position for 10 more more seconds. Just being able to hold the position even for a short time is a good sign. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingfuture.htmSending healing hopes and prayers for Corey. |
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 26, 2013 2:59:45 GMT -7
Hi Pauliana,
Thanks for a wonderful response! Yes, he is on half a Pepcid, twice a day. I give it to him half hour AFTER the prednisone. Now I will give it half hour before, thanks for telling me that.
Prednisone is the 5 mg, twice a day
methocarbamol is 500 mg, given in quarters, every 8 hours, I do 3 times a day 7 am, 1 pm and 7 pm, and
tramadol is 50, given in halves. I'm still giving tramadol 3 times a day,
even though I don't see him in "pain" right now, because I don't KNOW if he is, but is heroic, and a Gary Cooper, strong silent type! I thought I read that they were to get NO massage of any kind, during the first 8 weeks, not even light massage?? What massage are you suggesting I give him, when we are exactly 2 weeks into the episode? Also, are you ok with the fact that he DOES crawl a couple of feet, to get himself into a comfortable position to pee and poop? This method, for him, is about a 5 to 10 minute experience, my sitting and watching him SIT and STARE at me, till he does it. But ultimately, he does, and it looks like his chest is a few degrees off the ground, while his rear is obviously ON the ground. A couple of days ago, I pinched one of his toes REALLY HARD, and he moved his head right to his foot, but he didn't bite me!
Ok, he is still on his meds, so that article said no massage at all while on meds, and until we know the swelling is down and we know he is out of pain. I'm not sure when I know the swelling is down, but this site said 2 to 4 weeks, on Prednisone, for swelling to go down, and as you know, we are into 2 weeks only, right now.
Corey wagged his tail today!! 2 weeks into crate rest and he WAGGED HIS TAIL!!!!!!!
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
|
Post by Marjorie on Jul 26, 2013 8:30:05 GMT -7
Wonderful news that Corey wagged his tail! I remember the first time I saw Jeremy wag his tail again after being paralyzed. I remember crying to see that little tail going again. That's very encouraging, Pamela.
When you start weaning Corey down from the Prenisone, if he starts showing signs of pain, then you'll know that he still has swelling. It's only when they're off of pain pills and gradually weaned off of the steroid and they still show no signs of pain that you know the swelling is down.
Keep up the good work, Pamela & Corey!
|
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 26, 2013 8:40:09 GMT -7
Thanks! I just don't know when to know it is time to start weaning him. I guess I need to call my vet. She didn't think it was likely he would walk again, but she did feel there was hope, since he had deep pain sensitivity. I expect I'm still at least 2 weeks away from changing him from twice a day on the prednisone, to once a day.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jul 26, 2013 8:54:02 GMT -7
Yes, please call your vet and ask about weaning him off of the Prednisone. How long has he been taking it? I think you said he's taking 5 mg twice a day? Check the bottle to see if there are any directions on it. My Jeremy was only on a full dose for five days before starting to be weaned off of it.
Nerves can take a long time to heal but they can heal. That tail wasn't wagging yesterday but it is today. Just take it one day at a time.
|
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 26, 2013 8:58:15 GMT -7
Yesterday was the second week on all his meds. I will call the vet and ask her opinion on when to start weaning. Don't want to wean too soon, either, if we aren't sure swelling is down.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Jul 26, 2013 12:34:51 GMT -7
Hi Pamela,
As Marjorie said sometimes they put the taper instructions right on the bottle.. If they didn't on Corey's Prednisone bottle, call the Vet and ask.. The taper is used to test the waters, so to speak, to see if the swelling is down. The pain meds are backed off or eliminated at this time so it is possible to see if pain returns.. If it doesn't return then no medications are needed at all. If pain does return then back to the original dose of the Prednisone and also the pain medications. The reason it is tested this way is one wants to use the shortest amount of time possible on Prednisone and the other medications because of side effects and it really is the only way to see if the swelling is actually gone.. This is the time to be especially watchful of pain symptoms.. Shaking, trembling, yelping, reluctance to move or any other signal you know in your Corey that tips you off he is in pain.. They can be stoic and hard to read at times.. Tyler is tricky and hides his symptoms but I can tell by the expression in his eyes..
So happy Corey wagged his tail! One of the best signs there is that he is improving!
|
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 26, 2013 13:31:17 GMT -7
originally, the instructions were that after 5 days, he tapered to once per day, for 20 more days.....because on that day, i was frantic about not having money for surgery and not wanting to put him down, which on that day was what I thought were my only 2 choices. So she gave me those instructions for what would be my few days till I knew what I would do. Once I told her I was going to do the 8 week crate rest, she changed the instructions fully, back to the 2 [pred] per day. I have a call into her, so I will await what they say. For now, it has only been 2 weeks and he has no side effects, so another few days won't affect him badly. With summer heat, sometimes it is so hard to know if he is panting from the prednisone, the 5 minutes of heat, when we go out to potty, pain...who knows....but I do see light in his eyes, he is all barky again when the door rings or someone comes over, he is alert....and as you know, wagged his tail today. I will keep you abreast.
Oh...I definitely noticed that when he is about to poop, he trembles alot.....so glad that the trembling ends, when he does his poop....again, that trembling makes me think he may be back in pain again, even though he has been resting in a create for hours on end:-(
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
|
Post by PaulaM on Jul 26, 2013 13:55:56 GMT -7
Pamela, trembling, shivering after moving or nearing the next dose of meds are signs of pain. Trembling muscles to push out firmer poop could be another reason. So put on your detective hat, and if you believe he is suffering with pain, let the vet know. There may still room to move with tramadol in mg…how much does Corey weigh? If he is in pain then a taper would not be in order. On the taper the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed. Let us know what you and your vet decide about a test to see if all the pain and swelling is really gone. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato. So Pred started on July 12 and crate rest did not start until 7/18? During potty time you can limit his walking to minimal with an ex-pen or some of that poke in the ground garden edging fence. Make a 6 foot diameter area so limit sniff fests. ![]() |
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 26, 2013 18:15:06 GMT -7
Hi there,
No, he went straight into crate rest the very night he went down, 2 weeks ago yesterday. His poop is perfect, had only 1 bout of diarrhea in 2 weeks. I'm not rushing him off any medications at all, in just 2 weeks, until I speak to vet. Every site I read says that prednisone is usually at less 2 to 4 weeks, on a dog that didn't have the surgery. I expect to hear back from the vet either tomorrow or Monday, then they can determine what to do, wean or not, quite yet. I give him all 3 pills, every day.....and low fat no salt chicken broth, frozen now, so he can lick it. Also giving him Ester C vitamin. He is feeling good mentally...tonight he was begging to get out of crate....to no avail:-(
|
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Jul 30, 2013 6:22:08 GMT -7
Update on Corey. We are moving him to ▼ one 5 mg prednisone per day and moving his methocarbamol and tramadol, to once every 12 hours.This is for 2 weeks, regarding the prednisone, then the vet and I discuss next weaning. He is now fully pooping on his own and did an enormous pee this morning, by himself, outside. He is pooping while on his feet, not knuckled. Knuckling still there, intermittently, but improvement is truly upon him.
|
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Aug 3, 2013 3:01:37 GMT -7
Great news on Corey! While he is now down to one 5mg prednisone a day, for 2 weeks, and methocarbemal and Tramedol one every 12 hours, he is actually now walking on both rear legs, all wobbly, but walking! 5 more weeks of crate rest, but so great to know he isn't paralyzed. The vet had said it wasn't likely he would walk again. I'm not sure why so negative....or "realistic". That kind of negativity gets too many dogs put down immediately:-(. He is pooping great, outside of crate......alas, he still really does most peeing inside crate. I can stand 15 minutes outside with him, as he sits stating at me, seated........I come in, 1 minute later, the pee in the pad. I figure he is not able to lift his leg yet, and that is what he wants to do, and that maybe peeing in sitting position is his only way. Though he actually DID pee a couple of times outside, but 98% he is still doing crate. Maybe I should bring wee wee pad outside and try that, hahaha. Anyway, I'm a very happy mama, to know that he IS healing and he isn't paralyzed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Aug 4, 2013 17:38:28 GMT -7
Hi Pamela! Just wonderful news to hear Corey is walking!! Be sure and tell the Vet that he is walking and that conservative treatment works! He needs to be educated! Order some free literature from Linda, our founder, and give it to your Vet!! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm I am so excited with your excellent news about Corey!! Thanks for the update! |
|
|
|
Post by Nancy & Polly on Aug 4, 2013 17:48:48 GMT -7
Wonderful news! Your vet needs to eat his words.
|
|
|
|
Post by pamela on Aug 4, 2013 23:48:19 GMT -7
One thing I can say about my vet, who I do love, is that she never suggested putting him down. But her first suggestion was surgery. My first thought was surgery or death......I panicked.....then I asked her what I could do, since I couldn't afford the surgery and couldn't bear death. That's when she said we could try shots that day, and meds and rest for a few days, and go from there, till I knew what I wanted to do. But she didn't think he would walk again, she said. Well, she said "highly doubtful". We had done no x rays or other blood work to look further. When I told her he started wagging his tail and took a couple of steps, 2 weeks into rest, she was thrilled. Once I told her that I was doing the 8 weeks, she did warn me that he had to be fully at rest for the duration of the 8 weeks, in the crate, no walking or playing. I have one more week of ▼Prednisone once a day, then I call her for the next tapering off period. I'm guessing she is going to go to every other day for awhile, but I don't know, of course, till next Monday. I'm cutting down on the ▼ tramadol, but keeping him on the methocarbemal twice a day, till we speak on Monday. Thank all of you for your continued support!
|
|
