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Post by Karianne Gomez - on Jan 13, 2019 15:53:46 GMT -7
10 year old mini-dachshund with trouble walking My husband and I came back from vacation today and my mini-dachshund was having trouble walking with his back legs. My mom mentioned he was acting strange yesterday, ☆ 1 16 lbs (not verified). I had 50mg tramadol from previous incidents and gave him 1/2 tablet per past prescriptions (1/2 tab every 8 hours) [Moderator's note: please do not modify
16lbs
crate rest as of 1/13
tramadol 25mgs 3x/day]
☆ 2 Mini-dachshund. Smooth. His name is Oscar. My name is Karianne ☆ 3 No diagnosis yet. We have put him on crate rest and are debating on going to emergency vet or waiting for his vet in the morning. Last time we saw the e-vet for a back issue, they just took x-rays (which showed calcifications and told us to do crate rest, so not sure if it's worth spending the money or waiting until tomorrow and going to a specialist. ☆ 4 We have not seen vet yet - see previous question on our debate on whether to see e-vet or not. We started crate rest today as soon as we got home. 5 Is there still currently pain - before we gave him the Tramadol he was shaking and stiff. ☆ 6 He can wobbly walk and move his legs. He's in the crate now and I can't tell if he can wag his tail or not. ☆ 7 pee and poop this morning . He was able to walk and pee and poop but would not walk back. There is snow on the ground so not sure if it was because of the snow. ☆ 8 Eating and drinking OK? Just ate. Poops OK - Peed this morning and pooped. Normal color. |
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Post by Pauliana on Jan 13, 2019 16:53:08 GMT -7
Karianne, welcome to Dodgerslist Forum. It will help us work together with you and avoid offering ideas that could cause harm or lead the discussion in the wrong direction delaying help for your dog — please share a bit more detail with us: ❖1 Is there still currently pain? ❑ shivering, trembling ❑ Arched back ❑ yelping when picked up or moved ❑ can’t find a comfortable position ❑ tight tense tummy ❑ nose to the ground or head held high ❑ reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ❑ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ❑ Not their normal perky interested in life selves? Please list the exact names of meds after. you see the Vet ASAP, their doses in mgs and times per day given. Keep in mind the sooner Oscar is on an anti inflammatory the better.. It's the swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine that causes nerve damage and can worsen his neurological functions.. …PEPCID AC: Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). canigivemydog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/can-i-give-my-dog-pepcid-ac-300x300.jpgDoxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid AC (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.htmlThe hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy "whys": __ www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best at home via a mobile vet. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. DOGs with BLADDER CONTROL: Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist surgeon: ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho? Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! Getting an IVDD diagnosis is often very overwhelming leaving you feeling vulnerable and placing hope you have the right vet. Often an owner has not been able to research a professional's skills for this one disease. Dodgerslist's aim is to get you up to speed so you can be an active participant in helping your dog heal. No more blindly following instructions. Knowledge is the power to commit to the right treatment and win this IVDD battle! You will be very amazed how quickly you can learn a lot about just one disease which a vet is not able to know in great detail for every disease known to cats and dog. image.ibb.co/dBfFbo/conserv_button5.jpg====== The guest board is a temporary Guest courtesy to get immediate help until you can register. I encourage you to register and login. That way all the features of the Forum are available to you, making it faster to reply and get an email alert about replies. It also makes is far easier for us to track your dog and give the best assistance. Illustrated what to expect during registration: www.dodgerslist.com/forumads/RegisterFORUM/register.htm |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 13, 2019 16:55:15 GMT -7
Karianne, excellent you crate at once when you had a suspicion of another disc episode. Take him to emergency to get a confirmed diagnosis and get the anti-inflammatory started now, today. --- No xrays! He was born with disc episode since he has had previous episodes. When there is neuro diminshment that very likely is due to a disc episode. Other diseases IF a vet is suspicious would be the only reason for xrays: broken vertebrae from say a jump, a bone infection, etc. Conservative treatment is not rocket science. If your local DVM vet is IVDD knowledgeable, he should be able to take over after ER gets anti-inflammatory on board, pain meds, stomach protector Pepcid AC (famotidine). You are the one doing the crate rest...so you'll need to be re-freshed on it and tips to help it go smoother. -- Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm -- PLUS further guidance on conservative treatment on our "All Things IVDD page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmSTRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no meandering at potty times. Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!  KNOW YOUR ANTI-INFLAMMATORY CLASSES! Be able to discuss pros and cons of the steroid class vs. the non-steroid (NSAID) class. Vets choose an anti-inflammatory during a disc episode to get painful swelling down in about 7-30 days. These powerhouse meds do wonders OR they can be dangerous. Vets who practice safe medicine and owners up to speed on medications make all the difference. Did you get all four questions right? Answers here:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingswelingANSWERS.htm
Let us know what the ER vet prescribed. Name of meds, mgs per dose and frequency. |
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Post by Karianne on Jan 13, 2019 17:30:50 GMT -7
Thank you all. At evet now and will keep you updated. He can still wag tail and has deep pain per triage. Waiting to see vet.
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Post by Pauliana on Jan 13, 2019 17:57:27 GMT -7
Thank you, Karianne, good for you, getting Oscar to the E-vet so quickly! We will look forward to your update after the vet checks him over!
Healing thoughts and prayers!
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Post by Karianne on Jan 13, 2019 18:19:01 GMT -7
He [√ YES!!] still has function in his hind legs, [√ YES!!] can wag his tail and had deep pain. They are pressuring us to keep him overnight and have him see a neuro in the Morning and haven’t prescribed him anything. She keeps telling me conservative treatment prognosis is bad. Help! I don’t know if he can potty on his own.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 13, 2019 18:58:48 GMT -7
No surgeon would operate on a dog who CAN walk, even wobbly walk at this point in time! They would want to try the least invassaive method first. The person pressuring you is not IVDD knowlegable and doesn't know conservative treatment or maybe is not good at communicating clearly with you????? When surgery, surgery vs. conservative, risks for surgery especially when not even indicated.... a must read for those who are under educated about conservative treatment and when a surgery might be indicated: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmAs you can see by list below o f course Oscar has deep pain sensation by definition as he can wobbly walk! And by definition he naturally still has bladder control. Run from those that are pressuring you and clearly do not understand IVDD. Get the anti-inflammatory prescribed and on board. Get the pain meds (gabapentin (nerve pain), tramadol (general analgesic), and methocarbamol (muscle relaxer). Buy stomach protector Pepcid AC (famtoidine) at the grocery store to give 5mgs every 12 hrs. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Oscar: Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. Owner would then manually express the bladder til nerves self repair 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm#surgeryVSconservativeReference #1 Reference #2 |
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Post by Karianne on Jan 13, 2019 19:35:31 GMT -7
He has movement in his legs but can’t stand. Now that I’ve told them we are leaving and I want meds and them to express his bladder because I don’t know if he can pee they are taking their sweet time.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 13, 2019 20:31:33 GMT -7
It is likely he can pee on his own since he can still move his legs. Getting that anti-inflammatory on board time sensitive. Hrs matter. When the legs are affected more likely than not most vets will use the most powerful of the two classes...the steroids like prednisone. Expressing the bladder when a dog has actually lost bladder control. Your local DVM vet can show you, too.
Bladder control is proved by the sniff and pee test The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control is with the “sniff and pee test.” Carry outdoors, set them on an old pee spot to sniff. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. See if they will release urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should continue to do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe. NOTE: When the bladder is full, it fills the entire abdomen area so any pressure should release urine if bladder control is not yet back. You may need to hold the pressure for a little longer than you think you would. As the bladder empties, it gets smaller and can slip away from you. You’ll need to find it again. Sometimes it moves back by the pelvic area. Keep pressing until the bladder feels flat, almost like your hands are touching. Getting pain meds, the anti-inflammatory such as the steroid prednisone on board, means pain will get in control where you can take care of him without causing him pain. While he is in pain he will be reluctant to move, will not want to potty because it hurts. |
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Post by Karianne on Jan 13, 2019 21:16:19 GMT -7
Post vet visit:
Took him home. He was given 2 Rx. (1) Carprofen 25 mg tablets. Give 1/2 tablet orally every 12 hours (I believe they said this was Rimadyl) I tried to push for a steriod but the vet had no interest in listening to me. (2)Gabapentin 100 mg/ml liquid. Give .6mls every 8-12 hours for pain. I just gave him a dose of both at 10:15pm Central on 1/13.
he weights 6.33 kg.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
13.96 lbs
Carprofen as of 1/13: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 5 days then FRI 1/18 STOP to test for pain/new neuro issues
gabapentin 100mg/mL: 60mgs (0.6mL) best is every 8 hrs
no Pepcid AC on board 5mgs every 12 hrs!]
I tried getting him to pee outside - he was not interested in moving. The problem is that the ground is covered in snow and we cleared a spot in the grass and he has no interest in moving. He just sat there. It looks like he might be getting close to fully paralyzed. His feet don't bounce back when I turn the paw down. He is still wagging.
We are going to bring to our vet in the morning. We like our vet and think he will be much more willing to listen to us. If he doesn't urinate, will his bladder just let liquid out? I'm going to ask vet to show us how tomorrow morning.
Karianne
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 13, 2019 21:26:25 GMT -7
Karianne, keep in mind the typical order that nerves get damaged in. The order is a step by step PREDICTABLE order.
When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order.
1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Oscar: Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. √ Paws knuckle under
5. √ Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand
6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. Owner would then manually express the bladder til nerves self repair
8. Tail wagging with joy is lost when you specifically do some happy talk to him
9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment.
It will take an hour or less for the pain med to kick in and some pain relief. Make sure you give the gabapentin every 8 hrs. They have given nothing as the general analgesic (Tramadol) and nothing for muscle contraction pain (methocarbamol) Good thing you will contact your vet asap in the am. Do you still have tramadol in case the gabapentin is not enough during the night?
Just now getting carprofen in him, means now the swelling is being addressed. It may take carprofen 7-30 days. In the mean time pain meds need to be adjsuted if gabapentin alone is not doing the job.
Try to get some sleep, so you are clear thinking in the am. Which country are you in?
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Post by Karianne on Jan 14, 2019 10:16:31 GMT -7
We took Oscar to our regular vet this morning. He did not get worse overnight! And he slept the entire night in his crate. He can wag his tail, has DPS.
Our vet sounded pretty positive. He's keeping him on the course of meds that the e-vet said (. I asked him about antacid. He says he only does that with steriods. ) He also said if he's doing well on the gabapentin, then I don't need to give him tramadol - but if needed I can do both. (1) Carprofen 25 mg tablets. Give 1/2 tablet orally every 12 hours (2)Gabapentin 100 mg/ml liquid. Give .6mls every 8-12 hours for pain. I just gave him a dose of both at 10:15am Central on 1/14.
The vet encouraged me to keep him outside and let him sniff around - and he pooped!!! He couldn't hold his behind high enough so I held him up a bit so the poop could come out. He didn't pee - but I think that's more a function of it's cold and snowy and he will only do 1 function at a time. I'll bring him out shortly. He told me to call if any questions (and call if Oscar doesn't pee by tomorrow morning) and issues and if he doesn't hear from me by Friday he'll give me a call and we'll evaluate and determine what course to continue down.
13 hours ago Post by Karianne
I'm in the US in Chicago. I have some Tramadol in the house. I gave him a dose of Tramadol 25mg around 5:15pm Central so it may be wearing off in a few hours.
Since he didn't pee - I wanted to make sure he's not uncomfortable and his bladder won't explode. Will urine just leak out overnight? I'll test him in the morning and see if he'll pee and if not I'll have the vet show me how to express. The emergency vet has no interest in expressing his bladder or showing me how to do so.
I've got his crate next to our bed so I'm going to try to get some sleep. We are still debating crate vs surgery - but think we probably will stick with crate rest to avoid paying the $7500 that was quoted.
Thank you so much again for your quick responses and help.
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Post by Pauliana on Jan 14, 2019 10:55:37 GMT -7
Good afternoon Karianne!
All anti-inflammatories cause excess stomach acid which can sometimes lead to severe stomach damage. Pepcid AC reduces this acid and therefore reduces the chance of stomach damage. Ask the vet if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
On Tyler's first episode in 2013 his vet insisted he take Pepcid AC 30 mins before his anti inflammatory and again 12 hours later.. She said it was an absolute must to protect his stomach from either NSAIDS or Steroids..
Healing thoughts for Oscar!
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Post by Karianne on Jan 14, 2019 11:03:02 GMT -7
He didn't say anything about health issues, so I may just start giving it to him. I think you have the dosage per weight posted on the website.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 14, 2019 11:14:11 GMT -7
Better to be proactive. Stress causes extra stomach acid as does nsaid and steroids.
Those acids can cause stomach ulcers.
I'd rather be extra safe as I'm sure you would too.
It's 5mg every 12 hours, give 30 minutes before the nsaid.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 14, 2019 11:45:33 GMT -7
Karianne, if you can, you would be helping us and yourself by registering. The guest board is a temporary Guest courtesy to get immediate help until you can register. I encourage you to register and login. That way all the features of the Forum are available to you, making it faster to reply and get an email alert about replies. It also makes is far easier for us to track your dog and give the best assistance. Illustrated what to expect during registration: www.dodgerslist.com/forumads/RegisterFORUM/register.htmAs everyone is reporting here on the Forum and what their vet do, Pepcid AC, is a must. Let us know if he has no heart, liver or kidney issues you are giving him 5mg every 12 hrs. MED LIST - Let us know for how many days the carprofen Rx is for. It is important for you to know...this explains why we want that information and a must read so you know just how anti-inflammatory drugs are used with a disc episode: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm- Let us know how many times a day you actually give the gabapentin. Every 8 hrs or every 12 hrs NEURO STATUS. -- tell us what his back legs are doing. 1. can he wobbly walk? 2. Can he only move his back legs, but not able to move up into a stand nor take footsteps on his own? 3. Still knuckllng under his back paws? It goes without saying if he can move his legs, he must still then have bladder control. Signs of loosing bladder control are when you lift him he leaks on you. You are finding urine leaks in bedding. Loss of bladder control means the body will kick in reflexes to open the sphincter to release some, but not all urine. This is called overflowing due to reflex. |
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Post by Karianne & Oscar on Jan 14, 2019 13:47:27 GMT -7
Hi,
I'm registered at kpaologomez. Let me know what to do next on the forum. Here are the answers to the above:
Let us know for how many days the carprofen Rx is for. 5 DAYS (My vet will talk with us on Friday on next steps and will fill or change Rx based on his status (I know the washout period if we change)
- Let us know how many times a day you actually give the gabapentin. 9 DAYS AND I'm giving every 8 hours)
NEURO STATUS.
-- tell us what his back legs are doing.
1. can he wobbly walk? - Yes a little.
2. Can he only move his back legs, but not able to move up into a stand nor take footsteps on his own? He was able to move around outside and take a few steps but not able to fully stand up and support himself. He peed and pooped on his own, but I had to support his back legs to be up off the ground.
3. Still knuckllng under his back paws? At the vet he was this morning and wagging his tail. I'm not sure this afternoon.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 14, 2019 14:18:19 GMT -7
Karianne, thank you so much for registering. You can now get an e-mail alert when there is a post waiting for you to read. Bookmark a thread to receive an email alert when someone has replied 1. Go to your Profile> Profile Edit > Notifications: checkmark BOOKMARKS + "instant" email 2. Next, go to the Conservative Board: checkmark your dog's thread, then use the ACTIONS button to select "bookmark"  Oscar is still a good candidate to heal his disc and with time to also heal those nerves! Keeping to 100% sTRICT rest is the key. Vets are open to taking a phone call to eliminate a risky to the disc transport when at all possible for things which can be handled with a call such as med adjustments. So hope to hear it will be a phone call on THURSDAY in prep for the test for pain stopping of carprofen on FRI 1/18. Let us know which your vet wants on the stop of carprofen on Fri 1/18. --- a backing off of the pain meds gabapentin OR --- the full stop of gabapentin on Fri 1/18 The fastest way to reveal if another course of carprofen is needed on the test for pain AND any new increase of neuro diminishment is to also not have pain masking pain meds on board. OF course if it is clear Oscar IS still in pain on Thursday, there is no point to stop carprofen, but instead alert the vet to your observations so another course of carprofen can be Rx as well as necessary pain pills. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = back carprofen for another course, pain meds and Pepcid AC Is Pepcid AC 5mgs every 12 hours now on board? |
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Post by Karianne & Oscar on Jan 14, 2019 19:21:42 GMT -7
Sorry for the gap in communication! I just ran to target to get Pepcid. Got the generic ✚famotidine 10mgs tablets and will cut it in half with pill slicer. He’s due in about an hour for carprofen so will give in about 30 minutes. I can tell Oscar is feeling better because he’s whining like crazy and wants out. Any advice on how to calm him? He’s always been a terrible crate dog.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
13.96 lbs
Carprofen as of 1/13: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 5 days then FRI 1/18 STOP to test for pain/new neuro issues
gabapentin 100mg/mL: 60mgs (0.6mL) best is every 8 hrs
✚famotidine 5mgs twice a day?]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 14, 2019 20:01:21 GMT -7
Karianne, when the pain gets under control, yes, then you have more of a challenge. BUT SO GOOD to hear pain in control, now healing can go forward in comfort. Have you taken a look at our emergency crate training page. Select and only do the things that are quiet and do not cause Oscar to move his back. Ideas include calming music, using calming signals, how to avoid inadvertently training for the unwanted behavior, tiring him out mentally, etc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmLet us know which your vet wants on the stop of carprofen on Fri 1/18. --- a backing off of the pain meds gabapentin OR --- the full stop of gabapentin on Fri 1/18 Giving famotidine every 12 hrs? |
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 14, 2019 20:26:57 GMT -7
Have you tried a pack and play? It's essentially a baby play pen.
My Nala hated crating but will accept a pack and play.
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Post by Karianne & Oscar on Jan 15, 2019 7:04:00 GMT -7
Oscar slept all night but this morning when I took him out he wasnt wagging his tail or trying to stand and pee. It’s really really cold so I’m not sure if that’s the issue. He feels pretty tense on his abdomen so I’m going to call vet and see if we need to adjust meds. I also am a little late on the pain med dose though by 1.5 hours - he was sleeping and I didn't want to wake him) He’s on 25mg tramadol every 8 hrs, gabapentin .6mls every 8, carprofen (12.5mg every 12 hours) and Pepcid 5mg 30 every 12 30 minutes before carprofen. Any ideas on additional meds? Also any ideas on how to get a doxie who usually freezes up outside when he’s normal who is having an IVDd episode and even more reluctant to pee or move. I was thinking of taking a pee pad and wiping it on pee and turning the heater on in the garage and see if if he’ll pee there.
Last dosages: 7:00am 1/15 .6mls gabapentin and 25mg tramadol. He was not eating and drinking his food but did scarf up the cheese and peanut butter I delivered his meds in.
Post by Karianne & Oscar 12 hours ago (1/14)
A pack and play is an amazing idea. We have one too that we aren't using. I may try that during the day.
We just started the 5mg of Pepcid and I"m about to give him his dose of the carprofen in a few minutes (10pm 1/14). I also gave him ✚Tramadol 25mg @ 9:20pm on 1/14 - it calms him down at night and helps him sleep.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
13.96 lbs
Carprofen as of 1/13: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 5 days then FRI 1/18 STOP to test for pain/new neuro issues
gabapentin 100mg/mL: 60mgs (0.6mL) 3x/day
✚tramadol 25mgs 3x/day
famotidine 5mgs 2xday]
I don't think we will be ready to stop meds on Thursday/Friday of this week. We only had the meds the e-vet gave us. Our vet didn't want me to have to pay for additional meds until we evaluate him over the phone on Thursday/Friday. The vet wanted me to call and check in and then he'll prescribe whatever is necessary for the next few weeks.
I read the crate training stuff - I work full time and my husband travels - luckily I'm working from home today, Thursday and Friday, so I'll have to start implementing that at night and when I'm home. My babysitter and my mom are here during the week so I'm showing them how to take them outside.
I'm going to take him out to pee before we go to bed- he's pooped 3 times today outside and peed once. Fingers crossed for a restful night
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 15, 2019 7:22:00 GMT -7
I'm glad you're calling the vet to have the pain meds adjusted, Karianne. A tight, tense tummy is a sign of pain. The vet has room to move up on the dosage of Tramadol. We usually see a dog of Oscar's weight being given 50 mg every 8 hours. Also Methocarbamol can be added - that works on the pain of muscle spasms. Please let us know what he says after speaking to him.
I think you have an excellent idea of trying a pee pad with pee wiped on it in the warm garage. If you're going to use a pee pad, you can try using one right outside of his crate so you don't have to carry him to the garage. Let us know how it works out.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 15, 2019 7:26:51 GMT -7
Karianne, it's best if you post new information in a new message rather than editing an old message. I almost missed that you just added something to your last message. Be sure to speak to the vet about Oscar not wanting to eat his food or drink this morning. That could be a red flag sign of GI distress, the not wanting to drink could be a reaction to the Carprofen or it could be pain. Sometimes Pepcid AC isn't enough and there's a need for Sucralfate to be added so do speak to the vet about that. Sucralfate will require timing with other meds…so do your homework so you can discuss things with the vet: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.html |
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Post by Karianne & Oscar on Jan 15, 2019 11:52:11 GMT -7
UPDATE: After I left for work, my mom took Oscar out and he pooped. She also gave him his 5mg Pepsid @ 9:22 on 1/15 and 12.5mg of Carprofen @ 9:50. About an hour later he was moving around his crate and wagging his tail, so not sure what happened since this morning when I left and I thought he was doing worse, other than all meds were back on board. I think it was slightly warmer out so maybe he was more willing to move? I did speak with the doctor and he's going to leave everything as is for now, since Oscar seemed better later this morning except to up the dose of the ▲Tramadol (I was running around and wasn't in front of a computer or paper and pen, so he's going to send me an email and when we get home with the exact dosage)- more as a sedation so he's calmer in his crate and some more pain control.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
13.96 lbs
Carprofen as of 1/13: 12.5 mgs 2x/day for 5 days then FRI 1/18 STOP to test for pain/new neuro issues
gabapentin 100mg/mL: 60mgs (0.6mL) 3x/day
tramadol ▲50mgs 3x/day
famotidine 5mgs 2xday]
We tried him in the pack n play and he was freaking out and barking, so we moved him back to the crate where he's more secure and closed in. We only moved him when we took him out to potty so didn't have to have an extra move in there.
We will talk Friday morning about the next course of action which is likely to continue the carprofen and the pain medications for at least another week. And it's great because he isn't making me come in other than to grab the meds.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 15, 2019 14:38:11 GMT -7
I am very glad that Oscar is doing better now. It is probably the fact that all meds are now on board that made Oscar feel well enough to move around in his crate.
Is he now eating and drinking normally?
Speaking on the phone with the vets to adjust meds or give a status report is so much better for the dog than running the risk of transport.
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Post by Karianne & Oscar on Jan 16, 2019 8:10:43 GMT -7
I bumped up the Tramadol to 50mg per vet when it's time for a dose he seems to be in more pain. He just had 50mg (6am 1/16) along with all of his other meds he's been taking on the regular schedule.
He seems to be pooping 2x/day and one massive pee in the late morning. He is still able to get his behind off the ground and stand (weak and wobbly) and wag his tail. He really HATES the snow and cold but I couldn't get him to pee indoors.
Post by Karianne & Oscar on 20 hours ago
Yes - he's eating and drinking normally and he peed! It seems like he's pooping in the late morning and peeing in the afternoon.
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Post by Pauliana on Jan 16, 2019 9:23:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the update, Karianne!
How many doses has Oscar gotten at the 50mg? It takes about an hour for it to take effect.. If he is still in pain let the Vet know.. Gabapentin can go to 100mg with the Vet's ok.. Tyleris on 100 mg 3 times a day when he has an episode and he is close to the same weight as Oscar.. Methocarbamol can be added if he is having muscle spasms..
He needs to urinate more than once a day.. Anytime urine sits in the bladder for such a long time bacteria can develop in the bladder causing a UTI which is very uncomfortable.. Please have a urinalysis done to determine if he has an infection.. He should pee at least every four hours to keep his bladder healthy..
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Post by Karianne & Oscar on Jan 16, 2019 10:07:19 GMT -7
He's only gotten 1 dose at 50mg (plus all his other meds). What should I ask/tell vet? He's still shaking and in pain and he's only peeing 1x/24 hour period? What do I do if he's not peeing? I can't force him to pee and his abdomen is still pretty tense, so I doubt I could express him. When dogs are on good pain control, should they be less tense in the abdomen? I brought him outside 3 times to try to get him to pee -he's pooped twice - he was a little constipated so I fed him some pumpkin.
How do I check for a UTI - would you recommend bringing him to the vet and risk transport? Would they express him or cath him to get the urine out?
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Post by Pauliana on Jan 16, 2019 10:37:51 GMT -7
Hi Karianne,
Did you add equal parts water and kibble to the 1 teaspoon of pumpkin? That will help ease the constipation.
When pain is in full control, the abdomen should be more relaxed.. However a very full bladder may add to it..
Shaking is also a sign of pain.. To determine pain look for at least two pain signs.. Tense tummy, and shaking are the two of the many on this list. ❑ shivering, trembling ❑ Arched back
❑ yelping when picked up or moved ❑ can’t find a comfortable position
❑ tight tense tummy ❑ nose to the ground or head held high
❑ reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move
❑ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
❑ Not their normal perky interested in life selves?
There are medications that can relax the bladder muscles to make expressing or urinating on his own easier.. Call the Vet and let them know all the symptoms you are seeing and ask if you can get a collection cup to bring in a sample.. If they want you to bring him in for a Urinalysis I would do it.. If there is a UTI it is important to get that treated before it gets worse..
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