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Post by Saydee's Momma on Mar 15, 2013 19:58:51 GMT -7
Hello, I just joined the other board on Wed but I will repost since we have moved! I do like this set up much better and finding this board has already become invaluable to me. Earlier this week, I thought we had a horrible decision we were going to have to make come next week...now, that decision is no where in my thought process. Saydee is going to be just fine either with leg movement or paralyzed....shes not ready to leave us! By the way, my profile pic is from Christmas...NOT after she went down I am here for my Saydee, long haired mini-dachshund. I have not received an official diagnosis of IVDD, just ruptured disc(s) and with my constant research the last 3 days I know without a doubt this is what my Saydee girl has.
We saw the vet on 3/13 and started 24/7 crate rest on 3/14 because I didnt really understand until I got here that really meant 24/7 100%. We did keep her still and did not allow her to move around, but did have her on the couch during the day...no more couch and only crate now. Actually my mother in law had an older model portable crib in her garage collecting dust so we moved Saydee over to that today out of her smaller crate she had been in for 2 days. This crib puts her at eye level so she doesnt have to look up or move her head to see us and makes getting her in and out a BREEZE compared to the small crate on the floor. Thank God for small miracles right She does not seem to have any pain - no shivering, trembling or any of the other symptoms. She has whined just a bit a couple of times when we have moved her but very minimal. Meds are - Prednisolone 5mg giving 1.5 tablets once daily for a week, then taper off by .5 tablet each week thereafter. Robaxin muscle relaxer - 500mg giving 1/4 tablet 3 times per day. Hyrocodone for pain 5/325mg giving 1/2 tablet 3 times per day. Pepcid - 5 mg 1 per day Saydee currently has no movement at all in back legs, no deep pain sensation, no tail waging at all.We do still find wet bedding and leaks when she is lifted up although we are expressing as often as we can. I think it just takes time/patience on getting a better schedule established.She is eating and drinking ok. But she will not drink out of a bowl, we are still giving her water through a syringe. Tomorrow I will be getting a water bottle to hang on the side of her crate/crib (like the rabbits) that she can just lick for the water. She still does not want to bend her head down at all to a bowl of any kind. With food, I have been literally feeding her with my hands....but she is eating well. Poop seems to be normal - not too loose and not too hard, no blood at all I am going to start keeping a journal of her progress, I cant wait to share how well she is doing with all of you...I just know we have lots to look forward to!
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Post by Saydee's Momma on Mar 16, 2013 5:19:21 GMT -7
My Saydee lays on one side. She does not like to turn to other side or lay on tummy. So, since she is still peeing in her crate and mainly when we pick her up (like emptying her bladder at that time) she gets wet up to her front paws covering her entire side. We clipped a lot of excess hair (shes long haired) yesterday on her hind legs, bottom and tail yesterday and rinsed her down on the kitchen counter of course making the biggest mess ever to make her fresh. This morning she is soaked again, her entire side she is laying on needs to be washed. I know minimal movement is our goal, so we do try and do everything we can when we already have her out. But, could anyone suggest the best way to bathe/clean up with out much movement.
Also, anyone else have a baby that strictly lays on their side and prefers one side to the other. I am worried about bed sores and such?
Thank you, Misty Saydee's Momma
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Post by natureluva on Mar 16, 2013 7:48:57 GMT -7
Misty - are you expressing Saydee's bladder for her 4 to 6 times per day? It sounds like she does not have bladder control. When a dog loses bladder control, you express her bladder for her until control returns. If Saydee does not have bladder control (it sounds like she doesn't) you need to get a HANDS-ON demonstration from your vet on how to express the bladder. Have the vet place your hands directly where they need to be on the bladder and express urine right there in front of the vet so they can check your work. Watch our bladder expressing link beforehand to prepare yourself: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm What is happening is Saydee's bladder is filling up to capacity and overflowing by reflex. This is unhealthy because it can cause urinary tract infections and loss of bladder tone. Since Saydee's bladder has been overflowing, have your vet also run a urinary culture to determine if an infection has already started. Your goal is to manually express Saydee's bladder 4 to 6 times per day until control returns. This will prevent pee accidents in the crate. Do not bathe Saydee. Just carefully move her to another crate while you change her bedding. Gently wipe her down with hypoallergenic baby wipes or a warm, damp cloth, and dry her with a soft, dry towel. You are correct - minimizing movement is crucial during strict crate rest. Please let us know that you've been to the vet for your expressing lesson. Hang in there! Expressing is easy but takes practice. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 16, 2013 7:59:05 GMT -7
Misty, so glad to see you here with us in our new improved home. Your feedback that this format is more helpful in learning about disc disease care makes our hearts very warm!! Thank you. I am very concerned still days later that you are writing about Saydee's pain. Her pain meds are not yet right. Neck discs are very painful and can often take more aggressive meds. So get with your vet to let them know she is guarding her neck movements (won't bend neck down, won't drink out of a bowl.) Did you see what I wrote at the old List on 3/14? It does not sound like pain is being controlled….meds should be adjusted. Does the hydrocone have acetaminophen as an ingredient? There is concern, however, about long-term acetaminophen consequences in dogs due to the fact that canines are not as efficient at metabolizing acetaminophen as people are. "It should be noted that both morphine and codeine appear to have poor oral bioavailability in dogs and cats, which makes their efficacy questionable." Anecdotal reports of pain relief exist, but the results tend to be inconsistent. www.vasg.org/chronic_pain_management.htmREad here about the meds most vets are using with a disc episode. Tramadol is the key pain reliever along with a muscle relaxer such as methocarbamol. Scroll down to the blue highlighted box to read the typcial meds. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm Discuss with your vet about Tramadol 3x a day instead of Hydrocondone and then adding Gabapentin in with the Robaxin (methocarbamol) Do taker her to express in the clinic, then have the vet tech check your work. Get another hands on lesson. You will get to the level of proficiency you need with practice. Glad to hear you have trimmed her fur to make cleaning up easier. Try using a damp wash cloth or non scented babywipes instead of bathing. Do you have her mattress set up this way? Mattress enclosed in trashbag and taped shut. Then layer this way: pee pad on top of mattress, a fleece bottom sheet tucked in all around. Fleece does not ravel just cut to sizes you need, fabric can be obtained at local fabric shops or fleece throws at Walmart to cut to size.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 16, 2013 8:07:28 GMT -7
Misty we moved your bathing question back to your original thread. I don't think Lisa saw then that Saydee is still on Prednisolone. As long as she is on a steroid you likely need to express every 2-3 hours to keep her dry. Once off of pred then you'll be able to extend the hours between expressing times to every 4-6 hours.
So while you are still learning to express and learning to actually feel the bladder in all stages of emptying, start with every two hours and as she stays dry work your way to every 3 hours.
Let us know how that works out.
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Post by Saydee's Momma on Mar 16, 2013 8:54:34 GMT -7
Thank you for all of your help. I am a bit confused I guess - are you saying her pain isnt being controlled because of the medications she is on or something I am telling you that she is/is not doing that is a sign?
I dont feel she is in any pain, a couple of times when moving her she has whimpered and thats about it. She seems to be resting comfortably and no whining, shaking, etc. Although I will certainly ask her vet to change up her meds to the recommended, I am just concerned that something I am saying is making you think she is in pain?
We have been expressing her, but about every 4 hours....I didnt realize we needed to do every 2 while she is on prednisolone. My husband and I have watched several videos and feel pretty confident we are emptying her bladder when we express. We will still get a hands on lesson when we return to the vet though. Should we limit her water as we get closer to bed time so that she stays dry or should we set an alarm every 2 hours to express?
I do have concerns about her wanting to just lay on one side...she will stand on her 2 front legs every now and then...she will just randomly stand up in her crate like when she hears our other dogs bark, etc. but lays back down quickly. It is a concern because she is not able to eat/drink out of a bowl laying on her side at all...she not even interested in it. BUT, when I hand feed her chicken/rice she eats like a champ and takes water from a syringe very well....she just wont do it herself and Im concerned about that.
On the "bathing" maybe I should use the words rinse off. We have set up an expressing station on the kitchen counter at the sink. So, after we express we have a soft towel on the counter and we lay her down gently on opposite side she lays on so we can expose the "soaked" side and "rinse" her with the pull out faucet and a tiny bit of puppy shampoo. It makes a huge mess, which is fine because its easy clean up but we are not putting her down into a tub or sink to fully bathe her....just rinsing off with the faucet. I just dont see how letting her lay in her own urine that is soaking her almost all the way up to her front paws is better for her than rinsing her off each time we express.
Hopefully if we express every 2 hours she will stay dry but my other huge concern is during the day when we are back to work next week (this wk was spring break). If she does not start drinking on her own we wont be here to give her water in a syringe or express....Im very worried about that.
Thank you, Misty
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 16, 2013 11:04:22 GMT -7
"But she will not drink out of a bowl... She still does not want to bend her head down at all to a bowl of any kind"
Avoidance or reluctance to move the neck and head when there is a neck disc episode IS a sign of pain. Just like when you sleep the wrong way and you get a crick in your neck....you do not want to move it in certain positions because it is painful. Only with a disc episode it can be even more painful. Lapping up water from a bowl may also be painful for her. Are you soaking her kibble in equal part of water/broth so she is not having to do any painful jaw action?
If she is only on a chicken/rice diet, that is not full nutrition she needs, especially during healing and all the repair jobs the body is working on. Do try to get her back on soaked, soft kibble with not more than a teaspoon or two of chicken added to each meal if she likes that.... fresh protein added to kibble is a healthy idea!
If she is not shaking the water off and you are only spot rinsing where she is not a slippery dog...that is the concern with bathing....soapy wet slippery dog (not safe) who wants to shake the water off (too much movement of the vertebrae.
Let us know if moving expressing to every 2-3 hours starts keeping her dry. And let us know what the vet says about dealing with Saydee's pain.
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Post by Saydee's Momma on Mar 18, 2013 10:58:00 GMT -7
Well, its been a long/rough 2 days. Saydee has not been comfortable, she's in pain and we have done everything possible for her. Of course, she started whining late Sat night....we live in the country (and I mean the country) and dont have a 24 hr vet or anything of the sort avail. So, of course we called the vet before they even opened this AM for a call back.
She did call back as soon as she got in the office. Although hubby told her we have read Tramadol is a common/well used drug for pain for this condition (she is currently on Hydrocodone) our vet said she does not go to Tramadol for her first choice. She told hubby that she has more dogs NOT respond to it than do, which is why she went straight to Hydro. She did however at the request of hubby add in Gabapentin at 100 mg 2 times per day when she would normally give 75mg. She said try this out today and if by tomorrow she has not changed and is still in pain we will make even more changes.
She was very, very kind and concerned but did not budge on the Tramadol thinking it would not work for Saydee. Of course, I guess there is a chance it wouldnt but as it stands right now what we are doing isnt either. Its funny though, she really seemed to be fine for the first 3 almost 4 days and the whining just started the night before last.
Is it typical to have to change meds or dosage to control pain. Not that I want to think this way and I still have HUMONGOUS hope, but what if her pain is not controlled by any combination/changes we do? It kills me to know she is in any pain....and the stress of worrying about her and how shes doing every 10 min while I am at work is exhausting. At the same time I know we are committed to Saydee and her getting well, life is back in full swing this week with work, soccer, church, meetings, etc....I just wish I knew she were at home resting comfortably. Hoping adding the Gabapentin will do the trick.
Concerned Momma
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Post by natureluva on Mar 18, 2013 12:52:14 GMT -7
Hi Misty, please let us know if the Gabapentin is helping control Saydee's pain. To further ease her pain, consider giving a warm rice sock to snuggle up to. Fill a sock with 1 or 2 cups of dry rice. Knot the end. Microwave it for 1-2 minutes. Test the filled sock on the crook of your arm to make sure it is warm and NOT hot. Wrap the warm sock in a towel and place it in the crate. Do not use a human heating pad because they can easily burn a dog's skin. Also, do not leave your dog unattended with the rice sock, as some dogs may be enticed by the scent of the rice and try to eat it! In the alternative, a SnuggleSafe is also safe: www.amazon.com/Snuggle-Safe-Pet-Microwave-Heating/dp/B00008AJH9We'll wait to hear from you. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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