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Post by Pauliana on Jul 16, 2013 19:10:53 GMT -7
Yesterday evening Tyler suddenly developed symptoms of pain after running full tilt in a small circle all of a sudden..He never does that... Until last night.. Before that he was doing fine nearly 6 months after his surgery for a lumbar disc herniation. We were pleased with how well he was doing..
I crated him quickly and called Purdue Vet teaching hospital to let the Neuro team know.. Waited for call back last night that never came and then called them again this morning. They said they would have Dr Reese from Neurology call me back and I waited some more for hours.. I called back more forcefully and he called right back and we discussed his symptoms.. He agreed with the conservative 8 weeks of crate rest since Tyler could still walk.. He said to bring him in and they would evaluate him.
They took him to the back after a quick visit with us to discuss symptoms. They did a Neuro exam on him and said that he had Thoracolumbar pain that it wasn't a herniation and he had no Neuro deficits. They said he had a very tense abdomen.. They wanted to send him home with Tramadol 1/2 a 50mg tablet every 8 hours and Metacam, the 13 lb dose every 24 hours with a dose of 5 mg Pepcid a half hour before. They want to see him again in 2 weeks for a recheck to see how he is doing on crate rest and the medications.
While there he hid all symptoms and acted like he was feeling fine.. I warned them he has a habit of doing that.. The minute we got him home he walked into his recovery suite and acted lethargic, miserable and just like he was doing last night and this morning.. It's like he has a split personality.. One for the Vet and another one for us.. LOL
He had been constipated since last night but they said he had diarrhea there and to not start the Metacam until he is eating better and has a normal bowel movement. He doesn't want to eat and I have tempted him with all his favorites off an on all day. And so it goes.. He is due for another dose of Tramadol shortly and will continue trying to get his appetite going again so we can start the Metacam safely..
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 16, 2013 19:18:07 GMT -7
Oh no, Pauliana, I'm so sorry. I hope you're able to solve this simply with crate rest.
He reminds me of my car that makes a funny noise until I take it to the shop, then, no noise. Grrrr....
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 16, 2013 20:17:05 GMT -7
Oh no Pauliana,
Do you think going to the vet might be very stressful for him and idrenalin might kick in to mask his symptoms while there? I'm so sorry you have come so far with his recovery and now this. I couldn't imagine. You know so much and he had the best mom to support him through this. You also have a great support group. Sending appetizing and healing thoughts and prayers your way. Hang in there. I know you can.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 16, 2013 20:32:50 GMT -7
Pauliana, sorry to hear about Tyler's setback, you are so calm and knowledgeable. He couldn't be in better hands. Praying for healing and wellness for your fur-baby!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 16, 2013 20:51:07 GMT -7
I'm so sorry that your Tyler is having problems again, Pauliana. You're such a wonderful support to all of us and I hope that we can be of support to you now. I know how discouraging it can be to see your loved dog recover and do well only to once again be experiencing symptoms. Keep your chin up. You're more knowledgeable about IVDD than most vets and will do what's best for your boy.
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member 
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Jul 17, 2013 7:00:57 GMT -7
Any luck on getting Tyler to eat Pauliana? I wish I had some advice for you there, but that was a constant struggle with Angel. What worked one day, didn't work the next. I had more cooked foods in my fridge than the neighborhood restaurant. Praying for you and your Furbaby...(((many hugs)))
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Post by welovebailey on Jul 17, 2013 8:02:11 GMT -7
Sending many positive thoughts, prayers, and hugs your way! I can only imagine how difficult and scary this time must be for you-- I will be thinking of you and Tyler and hoping he is feeling much better very soon. You have helped me out tremendously--all of us on here really--don't know what we would do without all of your knowledge and expertise! Tyler is the luckiest little guy to have an expert mommy like you who knows just what to do. Take care of both of you, and know we are all thinking of you!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 17, 2013 8:07:59 GMT -7
Many thanks to Nancy, Jen, Sally, Margorie, Debbie and Sarah for your very kind words,support,thoughtfulness and the prayers..We do have the best support group here! I appreciate you all being here for me too. Tyler thanks you even though he is very grumpy.. Can't blame him really.. I would be too. Jen, you are so right about the adrenalin rush masking his symptoms at the vet.. He was like a different dog when he got home, most likely because his adrenalin crashed.. I was reading his info on his exam that they sent home with me and all systems were normal other than the pain in his Thoracolumbar and the tense tummy and the diarrhea which was a surprise since he was constipated here for the past day. They said they tried to check his CP's but couldn't due to patient non-cooperation.. Surprise!!! Will have to find out what CP's are.. Debbie, managed to get some chicken down him and some soaked Fromm's dog food. Not much, but better than yesterday..I know what you mean about a refrigerator full of non eaten food and struggling with Angel not eating.. We both have healthy refrigerators at least.  The lunchmeat trick worked with his meds. Pepcid and Tramadol. Still not enough food in him for the Metacam and no poops yet.. So we will work on that the rest of the day.. Getting food in him..and hopefully get his disgestive upset straightened out..He usually eats well however, we had this problem after he came home from surgery but he perked up after a day or two and I am hoping for that this time.. Just need to get back into a routine again, as you all know from experience..Will call Purdue today and see if I should put Tyler on Sucralfate just in case.. |
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 17, 2013 8:54:54 GMT -7
Keeping Tyler in thought and prayer (((hugs)))
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Jul 17, 2013 9:19:49 GMT -7
Continued prayers...Lunchmeat didn't work for Angel's meds...Oh No...she knew they were in there...Had to use Cream Cheese. Just glad I found something to work. Hopefully Tyler will settle down, and eat for you today... (((many hugs)))
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 17, 2013 12:45:24 GMT -7
Lunch meat continues to work for me, too, thank goodness. I can't believe that we're both back in this position again. Ugh.
My Polly seems to be doing better. I hope to hear good reports on Tyler soon. Hang in there!
CP sometimes is short for cervical position. Just a guess.
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 17, 2013 19:17:10 GMT -7
I'm so sorry to hear about Tyler, ugh this disease is so frustrating and unfair.. Our big dog Chance is diabetic with bad hips..when we take him to the vet he acts like a puppy and they think we are crazy. How is Tyler and is he showing any pain? I will be keeping you both, cause we hurt with our babies, in my thoguhts and prayers.
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 17, 2013 19:19:16 GMT -7
Oh..meatballs...they worked awesome for Fred. I made them out of canned dog food. He gobbled them right up.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 18, 2013 10:51:19 GMT -7
Hi Maureen, Debbie, Nancy and Stacy!
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers and encouragement, they are so appreciated! Tyler finally got his appetite back and has been eating and drinking better.. I was able to start the Metacam last night and it is dosed every 24 hours. Between it and the Tramadol x 3 he seems to be pain free dose to dose.. No poops yet but I remember from last time that he didn't poop for around 5 days.. I tried Pumpkin but he hates it.. Hates pears too. LOL He does love Sweet potato so got a fresh one from the store and have made up a tasty treat for him that I added to his Fromm's dog food.. He loved it. Still not sure how they got diarrhea and he is acting constipated here.. Doesn't make sense..
We also started Sucralfate this morning after the Vet finally called it in to our pharmacy last evening and between that and Pepcid Ac his tummy seems to be settling down.. They must be busy at Purdue because it's been hard to get call backs the past couple of days and it isn't normally like that there..
We caught this early according to the vet and she thinks with meds and crate rest that he is in good shape for a normal recovery..
Nancy, Cervical positioning thank you!! I thought initially that he was having cervical problems and maybe that is why he wouldn't cooperate with them in that area.. They still think it's thoracolumbar.. At any rate where ever the problem is,it will heal with medications and crate rest and we will concentrate that.. May try Laser or Acupuncture, I will do a search and find a good one in the area.
Debbie, I will try cream cheese and Stacy, I will try meatballs also.. Every idea helps!! He is still suspicious with possible hidden meds but that is par for the course..
Tyler is napping in his crate and all is quiet for the moment.. Hugs and prayers all around for all of you and our precious Dodgerslist Pups!
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Jul 18, 2013 14:36:18 GMT -7
Happy to hear the appetite is back. my heart goes out to you, I know how hard this must be for you, kinda scares me too, wondering when my "next" time will be...It was only 6 months for you. I guess we never get over that fear. Angel was diagnosed with a severe disk extrusion on CT scan and underwent surgery to remove the herniated disk. He said "several disc" were involved, but I never got out of him how many?Anyways, It is BLISTERING hot here, and I'm trying to clean... I got both Furkids Bathed (thought I had a flea on me last night in bed), bedding changed, 3 rooms downstairs cleaned and scrubbed, laundry done..I keep running to the Living roon for AIR, we don't have whole house air...UGH. Need to vaccuum the bedroom, I'm afraid of the boric acid, suppose to leave it over night, I don't want the Furkids walking on it, I'M AFRAID..  Praying for you and Tyler, and hoping the next 7 weeks and 6 days go by quickly.. :/ Many (((hugs))) |
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 18, 2013 22:22:13 GMT -7
Update! Tyler finally ate a normal meal for him and then pooped at last! Yeah!! He seems to be feeling a whole lot better.. His personality is coming back. He is still fighting the meds but I managed to get them in him again today.. We are hanging in there and taking it one day at a time. I feel a lot better now that he is back to eating.. Wow Debbie you were busy today.. It was VERY hot today and I hope you didn't get overheated with all that work.. Cooler weather coming Saturday.. The fear is there but we manage that as best we can.. All we can do is protect them as best we can but we still can't control the variable silly things they do that we don't expect..Tyler never has run around in a turbo circle like that before.. I think he was running so fast that he stopped too quick.. At least this time, it doesn't seem to be severe like last time and we are relieved it is relatively mild.. Vet thinks with crate rest and meds he will be just fine.. Prayers that Angel never has a relapse.. HUGS! Thank you everyone, the prayers are working. |
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 19, 2013 4:23:30 GMT -7
I'm so glad to hear that Tyler's feeling better, Pauliana. I know how upset I get when one of my pets stops eating. They can't talk but when they stop eating, you know they're saying that something is seriously wrong. Tyler is saying "OK, that's a whole lot better - now I can enjoy my food again!" Very good news indeed. He sounds like he's on the mend. So glad the prayers are working. Very hot here in NJ - heat index of 110 today. Good day for all to take it easy. Rest well, Tyler! And you take it easy, too, Pauliana. It's been a stressful time for you both.
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Jul 19, 2013 7:54:18 GMT -7
Sooo glad things are getting back to a "new" normal for you. I'm telling you..try the cream cheese...you'll be amazed at how he gobbles up those meds. I used the low fat stuff too. Yes...I did worry about over-heating yesterday, I was here by myself, The Hubster is on afternoon this week. I could feel myself getting light headed, I knew it was time to sit a spell and have some water. Relaxing with some yarn (I have 2 orders I need to finish) and sitting with my FurBabies in the AIR...Another HOT one today but relief is on it's way...tomorrow is suppose to be better. Many prayers and (((hugs))) coming your way..  |
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 19, 2013 11:54:45 GMT -7
Glad to hear that Tyler seems to be on the mend!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 19, 2013 12:13:09 GMT -7
It is such a releif when they eat and pee and poop normally - we sure are excited by things that most folks would think rather odd. Glad Tyler is feeling more like himself!
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 19, 2013 16:31:17 GMT -7
Funny how excited we get over a poop..and forget about a normal poop!! Fred didnt go for 3 days when he started meds (normally goes 2xs a day). I was so glad he pooped and it was normal I took a pic of it and showed it to my vet lol. So glad to hear Tyler is eating better!! Hugs to both of you |
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Post by Jude & Penny Lane on Jul 19, 2013 17:50:29 GMT -7
]So sorry to hear this and hope it will pass quickly.
Every one of our dogs, probably just like us, can be miserable at home and then trot right into the vet clinic like they are on top of the world. We were always stumped by this until our vet told us that it's due to a burst of adrenalin.
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 19, 2013 18:04:18 GMT -7
So happy Tyler is eating again! That's great news! Positive thoughts and healing prayers sent your way! |
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Ticker Marie & Daphne
New Member
New problem - uncontrollable kicking of back legs when walking
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Post by Ticker Marie & Daphne on Jul 20, 2013 10:20:21 GMT -7
So sorry to hear that Tyler had another episode, BUT he has the best mommy to take care of him. You have been there for all of us and we are here for you. On Daphne's exam notes surgeon always seemed to write CP deficits present and so I had to look it up! It is conscious proprioception, which means they don't correct their paws position, if it isn't in the right position and they don't correct it. Normally dogs will flip it to the normal position right away. Daphne never did this til after her second surgery. Wishing Tyler the best, you both will be in my thoughts and prayers. P.S. Daphne also did the adrenaline trick at the vets!! Little stinker This is what I found on CP:
The first thing to go is what is called conscious proprioception. This concept refers to the ability to perceive where one’s feet are and orient them properly. The examiner will turn the foot over so that the top of the foot is on the ground and will see if the patient replaces the foot in the proper position. Dogs with poor proprioception will scuff their toes or even occasionally fail to flip their feet while walking and will walk on the tops of their feet. Nerves responsible for conscious proprioception are located on the outside of the spinal cord so when the disk herniates, these nerves feel the pressure first.
After the nerves that affect conscious proprioception go, next are the nerves for voluntary motion (including voluntary control of urination/defecation), followed by the nerves for superficial pain perception, and ultimately the nerves for deep pain perception (usually tested by applying a strong pinch to the toe).
Proprioceptive (position sense) nerve fibers are the largest and therefore the most susceptible to pressure. Proprioceptive losses can be seen with only slight amounts of pressure applied to the spinal cord. Clinically proprioceptive deficits are recognized as in-coordination (ataxia). If proprioceptive losses are the only ones identified on the neurologic examination, the prognosis is usually good and less aggressive therapy is usually adequate.
Motor fibers are the next smallest size of nerve fiber and therefore require more pressure to become dysfunctional than do proprioceptive fibers. Moderate damage to these fibers causes decreased muscle strength and function resulting in clinical signs called paresis. In general, paresis holds a guarded to good prognosis and indicates the need for more aggressive medical, and often surgical, therapy if normal function is to return. More severe damage to motor fibers can result in an absence of muscle strength and function called paralysis. The presence of paralysis is accompanied by a fair to guarded prognosis and indicates the need for fairly rapid and aggressive medical and surgical therapy if the spinal cord is to regain reasonable function.
Superficially or cutaneous sensory nerve fibers are small and therefore require a great deal of pressure to become dysfunctional. Unfortunately this neurologic modality can be hard to evaluate because dogs can not talk to tell what they can or can not feel on their skin. If a lack of conscious perception of pain sensation in corresponding cutaneous sensory zones is identified, the prognosis is guarded to poor. Aggressive medical and surgical therapy must be initiated immediately if the animal is ever to function reasonably normally again.
The smallest nerve fibers transmit deep pain sensation and are the most resistant to pressure. Deep pain is pain perceived when hard pressure is applied to bones or joints. Lack of deep pain perception is the gravest of clinical signs but must be considered in light of how long it has been lost before deciding if the spinal cord is irreversibly damaged.
Hope this helps. Hang in there.
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 20, 2013 10:29:47 GMT -7
Oh, yeah, that makes much more sense. Good job!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 20, 2013 21:34:12 GMT -7
Many thanks to Marjorie,Debbie, Nancy, Maureen, Stacy, Jude, Jen and Marie for your support, great ideas, kind words, prayers and information... Marie, I guess Tyler didn't want them to mess with checking his CP's the rascal. Thankfully he does place his feet properly.. After surgery 6 months ago, he had a slight deficit of CP's but it normalized after his 2 week vet visit. Thanks for adding the CP info.. I really appreciate that.
He is feeling enough better that he is restless in the crate but I am trying to keep him resting as well as amused.. He is not happy because Neil is working on building the stairs down to the river and Tyler doesn't like being away from him.. So I got grumbled and frowned at all day.. LOL
Hugs to you all..
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 21, 2013 7:37:38 GMT -7
Another update, Tyler is refusing breakfast.. Managed to get the sucralfate and pepcid down him.. He even has refused his favorite treats and have tried multiple times to get the tramadol down him. Going to have to pop it down his throat. Neil says I am worrying too much about it and to let him out of the crate..I told him if he wants another $2000 surgery, keep it up.. but he won't get out of that crate unless it is out to potty.. So I have to stand guard. Brick wall meets the rock that won't budge. LOL Most likely today Neil's son will show up here.. and that always over excites Tyler..
Sending hugs and lovins to all our Dodgerslist doggie kids.. and to our one of a kind support group!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 21, 2013 7:49:57 GMT -7
So sorry that Tyler is once again not eating. And no, of course you're not worrying too much about any of this. It's a very serious thing, as I'm sure I have no need to tell you. Do you think he might have some pain this morning that's causing him not to want to eat? Silly boy, he needs to take his Tramadol. If only they understood. Hopefully, once you get the Tramadol down, he'll eat something. My daughter and grandson will probably come by later today and I know Jeremy is going to get overly excited. I'll give him some of the GNC Mega-Relax that I have about an hour before they come to take some of the edge off. And I'll give him a bone as soon as they walk in the door to distract him. That usually helps.
Hope your day gets better soon, Pauliana.
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Jul 21, 2013 7:50:39 GMT -7
OMGosh Pauliana, I know EXACTLY what you are going through. Angel, (not a big eater to begin with), would refuse to eat a LOT, so it was a constant struggle for me to get her to eat. As I said before, I had so much food in my fridge, not knowing WHAT she "might" eat, and most likely she would refuse it all, bout put me over the edge. I could suggest a few things, like scrambled eggs & cheese, enough to get his meds down at least, then you need to worry about "THE NEXT TIME"...UGH...So sorry you have to go through this...Praying Tyler eats soon and you have peace of mind...many (((hugs))).
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 26, 2013 20:46:52 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie and Debbie for your help and support! Tyler is now off his meds and pain free. The vet thinks we caught it early and that made a real difference. He is resting in his crate and giving me his litany of complaints whenever Neil leaves the house, even if it's only to the workshop.. He grumbles, he mutters and tries to say words.. They call it the Shih Tzu babble and everything is all my fault.. Silly boy! Neil still wants to let him out but I have won this battle at least.. LOL Debbie, talk about things putting us over the edge, the eating thing with Tyler and Rosie, our kitty is sure to put me over the edge.. They both decide not to eat on the same days.. Now these two barely associate with each other since Rosie is outside and Tyler inside but they are totally in tune with each other when it comes to rejecting food or deciding they are actually going to eat on a given day.... Drives me nuts! LOTS of hugs all around! |
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