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Post by tamontello on Apr 17, 2013 6:47:52 GMT -7
Hi, we are new to this site.i have a 5y/o Doxie, Lucky Ducky Dog.In October, he suffered an injury and due to financial restraints we could not afford surgery so we decided to do conservative crate rest 2 months later he gained full use of his back legs. Then on 4/7 after going outside to potty. He was walking fine, he began to shake. We immediately started crate rest again. Went to the doc on 4/9-he is back on anti inflam and pain meds twice a day. He was still ambulatory on 4/9! Now he isn't ambulator. I know it can get worse before it gets better. I know things are different this time than last. He holds his bladder and bowel but needs assistance with both. Is there really a way for me to know, without the expensive tests if he has any feeling in the hind legs? If this is permanent etc?
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Post by natureluva on Apr 17, 2013 8:07:51 GMT -7
Hi there, my name is Lisa, what's yours? Welcome to Dodger's List! We're glad you found us. For conservative (non-surgical) treatment, we follow what the most knowledgeable IVDD vets recommend, which is 8 weeks of STRICT crate rest to heal the disc, plus meds to mask the symptoms and control inflammation on the spinal cord. It is the strict crate rest (limited movement of the spine) that heals the disc. Meds can make a dog feel better and thus move better, however, this does NOT mean that the disc is healed. It takes 8 weeks for a disc to form a good scar - discs take longer to heal than even bones due to their low blood supply. Be sure you are carrying him to and from the potty spot, supporting his rear with a sling or your hands, and only allowing him to take a couple of steps to get his business done. Here are three links to help you with conservative treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmCan you tell us exactly what meds Lucky Ducky Dog is on, along with the dosages and frequency of dosing? Are you giving 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory to protect his stomach from the excess acid they form? Is he in any pain now? When you say he needs assistance with his bladder, are you saying that you are manually expressing the bladder? If so, this should be done 4 to 6 times per day - here is a video to help: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm If you are not already getting it, we highly recommend acupuncture and laser light therapy for IVDD. They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of relaxing the dog. I firmly believe acupuncture helped my Goosie regain his bladder control more quickly, and his movements were stronger after his treatments. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ There is no way for you to know the extent of mobility Lucky Ducky will recover. You will have a better idea after the 8 weeks of crate rest, but even then, our pups can continue to heal. To give you an example, it took my dog 11 months after his disc episode to walk on his own again. Some dogs stand up a few weeks into treatment, and others, like my dog, require a much longer recovery time. The important thing is - as long as a dog is pain-free, he is HAPPY! Even dogs that remain paralyzed have a great quality of life - they simply use a cart to get around, like my dog did for 9 months. Read through some of our Success Stories to get an idea of the various recoveries from IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/monthtstory.htmWe look forward to hearing more about Lucky Ducky Dog! Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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Post by tamontello on Apr 17, 2013 9:34:49 GMT -7
Lisa:
Thanks so much for the information.
He is currently on
novox 37.5 mg 2x per day
Tramadol 25mg 2x per day
He seems to not have any accidents in the crate. When I pick him up to go outside sometimes he will urinate on me or leak til I can get him down. He has only past a BM while he is being held outside.
He is no longer shaking, panting or seems to be in distress. He was the first few days. So he appears to not be in pain. His appetite is fine.
We tried acupuncture in the fall when he had the first episode like this. He didnt relax he was highly agitated. Can you tell me more about the laser treatment, costs? When would you start the laser now?
Trish
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Post by tamontello on Apr 17, 2013 9:36:01 GMT -7
Also I tried the link to locate a doc for the laser treatment, unsure how to search there so I am currently searching google.
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Post by Sherry Layman on Apr 17, 2013 10:02:54 GMT -7
Trish, My regular vet does laser treatments. Might try calling your vet and asking about it. Certainly not all vets do it but if your doesn't they may know of a local vet that does. If your vet doesn't know or seems reluctant think of vets in your area that are known to provide more "human quality" care or the more expensive ones. If you have co-workers that say when they take their pets in for spay/neuters or other procedures the vets want to do lots of lab work or ekg's etc...that's the vet offices that are most likely to be performing the newer procedures like laser. Also if you know of a chiropractic vet in your area...DO NOT allow chiropractic procedures on your dog but that vet may do laser. Googling is always a good choice. Where are you and we can help you also if you don't find anyone?
Regarding his urinating when you are taking him outside you are actually just putting pressure on his bladder and expressing the urine. Try a couple things...take him out a little more often so he isn't quite so full. Also hold him so that you aren't putting pressure on his tummy, hold him under the chest and under his bottom using two hands. I know it's tricky getting him out of the crate since he can't help you. If you have a crate with top access use it rather than the door. You can also try having a blanket for him to lie on that you can use to lift him out.
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Post by tamontello on Apr 17, 2013 17:47:27 GMT -7
Thanks! We are in Durham NC.
I will try picking him up differently and I hadn't thought about putting pressure on his bladder, duh! That makes sense now!!
what about his meds? Aside from the Pepcid, any ideas?
trish
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Post by clewis on Apr 17, 2013 18:12:33 GMT -7
I am glad to hear that Lucky Ducky Dog is doing crate rest and you have experience making this work for him. As for testing to see if he has deep pain --- a vet can do a hands-on neurological exam to check for deep pain. This is not expensive nor invasive. Ask/call your vet and ask if this can be done. If not, ask who they could refer you to. I would do some phone calling first so you don't have to move your dog any more than you need to. Can you let us know what medications Lucky Ducky Dog is taking now? Have you been communicating with your vet about the paralysis? Maybe the medications need to be adjusted? That is something you can ask also. Please remember that IVDD is a disease of time and patience. Hang in there!  Cris Lewis --- moderator |
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Post by tamontello on Apr 17, 2013 18:34:24 GMT -7
Cris:
We definitely know we have to be patient. I am in this for the long haul. He is on Novox and Tramadol. He takes 37.5 mg of Novox 2x per day. He takes 25mg of Tramadol.
Trish
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 18, 2013 8:36:05 GMT -7
Trish is surgery an option this time if necessary? Then the only kind of vet I would trust with the neuro test is a board certified neuro (ACVIM) or ACVS (ortho) This article on surgery will give you the low down on why that is so. The article will also go over surgery vs. conservative treatment... So even if surgery not a consideration...I recommend to check out the info here www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmLet us know if you specifically see his tail wag if you do some happy talk or if he is happy at anticipating getting a treat.. Please do not hesitate, get Pepcid AC (famotdine) on board today. Lucky does not need another problem on top of what he is dealing with. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not to take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. This directory is in alpha order and an excellent place to look up ALL of Lucky's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmOur "Disc Disease 101" page is chock full of the kind of information you need at your fingertips. Please do read all of the orange buttons as soon as possible. The button on " Acupuncture/Laser Light therapy" will give you the directories to finding a qualified vet in your area plus one vet's prices to give you an idea: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm The sooner these therapies are started the sooner it can help with not just pain but to also stimulate nerves to regenerate. Nerve healing is a very slow process...the focus on crate rest is letting the disc heal...so you may or may not see nerve functions returning in the 8 weeks of crate rest. Think in terms of months for nerves. Further adjustments would be if pain is not under control, to increase the dose of Tramadol or increase the dosing frequency or to add in other pain meds. So let us know that his pain is fully under control dose to dose (Tramadol 25mg 2x per day). |
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Post by tamontello on Apr 18, 2013 17:22:16 GMT -7
Paula:
Surgery is not an option, no way to swing it financially. So we are dedicated to the crate rest.
I will call the vet in the morning about the Pepcid. He does seem to be comfortable with his current doses of meds. He is wagging his tail, especially for my daughter. The first few days he kept that tail tightly tucked.
He definitely didnt respond to the acupuncture in November. He was highly agitated. I am looking into laser therapy now, I found a doctor late today that offers the therapy, I'm calling her tomorrow.
thanks for all the support and info!
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pam
New Member
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Post by pam on Apr 18, 2013 18:15:40 GMT -7
Just wanted to say my dog is doing laser therapy now,it is actually his 3 round of laser(for other non related issues) We had fantastic results with laser for a limp in front leg that he has had forever,they think from an old injury before I got him,7 laser treatments and he has not limped since It is pricey here,but well worth it I think. Good Luck Pam |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 19, 2013 8:37:11 GMT -7
Trish, if Lucky can wag his tail due to being happy to see your daughter then you have your answer about deep pain sensation. By necessity a happy tail wag nerve function comes back after deep pain sensation has come back. As you can see by the order of nerve functions in list here www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm you will now be wanting to give Lucky the "sniff and pee" test. Let us know what you observe. If he does not pass the sniff and pee test then just express and periodically give the test again. Keep on with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks to ensure both his disc can heal and allow the spinal cord to heal without added injury. |
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Post by tamontello on Apr 19, 2013 15:14:41 GMT -7
Thanks Pam for the info.
Paula:
He sniffed and peed tonight!!
Trish
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 19, 2013 16:00:43 GMT -7
Can you find another accupuncture provider? Stevie was very relaxed during her treatments and her Vet said that is what normally happens. Keeping you in thought and prayer |
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Post by tamontello on Apr 20, 2013 6:32:58 GMT -7
Stevielu
I will consider that, thanks!
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Apr 20, 2013 7:00:25 GMT -7
Praying for your FurBaby, and many (((hugs))) to you.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 20, 2013 9:29:46 GMT -7
Trish, how exciting.... you are witness to nerves healing before your eyes!!! Now when bladder control starts to return, a dog may not have full control to fully void the bladder. So continue to do a quick little express check after he pees to verify the bladder is empty until you are confident he really is voiding all the urine.
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Post by tamontello on May 3, 2013 4:53:03 GMT -7
Update....5/3/13.....
Lucky is doing great.....he is trying to move his back legs more...he is trying to bear weight...we have weeks left but God is good...
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Post by natureluva on May 3, 2013 6:38:16 GMT -7
Hi Trish, so happy to hear that Lucky Dog is doing well! Do continue with the strict crate rest so that his disc can fully heal. How is his bladder control? Have you started tapering the meds yet? When you taper the meds is the time to be very viligent about how he is feeling. If you see that pain is returning, that means that the Novox is not done with its job of reducing inflammation on the spinal cord. If that is the case, your vet can extend the Novox prescription. How is Lucky doing in the crate? I found a pet stroller was SO helpful before AND after crate rest. In fact, I still use mine to this day. My dogs get so much mental stimulation out of stroller rides - makes them "feel" like they are walking, but they are safely inside the stroller! :-) Here's a link on pet strollers if you're interested: dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm We look forward to your next update. You're doing a great job with Lucky Dog! Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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Post by tamontello on Jul 14, 2013 10:56:00 GMT -7
Lucky has gain use of his legs again.... He is still on crate rest most of the day... We are in fear of re-injury
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 14, 2013 20:24:18 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, my name is Pauliana, what is your name? Lucky shouldn't need to be on crate rest all day now that he has recovered.. Here is some info to teach you how to reintroduce him to his careful new normal. My Tyler graduated crate rest on March 11th and he is doing very well using the tips in this article below.. He has a good time and is careful too. Don't let your fear rob Lucky of some fun in his life.. He can have a good time and still be safe as long as some precautions are put in place. Avoid stairs, jumping but working up gradually to a nice long walk, would be good for him. It's strengthens the core muscles that protect the spine and discs.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmHere is a great article on making your home back friendly for your dog.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm |
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Post by tamontello on Jul 30, 2013 12:21:37 GMT -7
Paulina:
i am Trish. Thanks so much for the link. Reading now....we have hardwood floors. He gets nooooooo traction. Any idea how those traction booties work?
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Post by Pauliana on Aug 1, 2013 21:53:36 GMT -7
Hi Trish, We have hardwood floors too. We have area carpets scattered around to give traction to Tyler on the floors.. One of of our Moderators (Stevieluv) uses toe grips on her Stevie. She says they work well although at times they come off..so she bought extras.. Here is some info about them.. www.toegrips.com/As far as booties go they have something on the bottom to make them less slippery on bare floors.. Hope this helps.. |
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