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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 15, 2013 14:57:37 GMT -7
Hi All Doxie lovers out there!
My mini Doxie named Grace since she is and always will be "Amazing"
3 weeks ago today, I noticed she wasn't acting her usual happy self. She was following me around the house with her tail between her legs, looking scared and worried. I just assumed it was because of the terrible snow storm we were having that day, here in Kansas. She doesn't like to potty outside in the snow, and we haven't seen much snow in the last 2 winters especially over 12 inches!
An hour later she was shivering and shaking, so I just sat with her and wrapped her up in a blanket. The shaking still continued and it looked as though she couldn't rest. Her body would tighten up, her head would raise up, and she tried to relax again. I have never seen this before.
It had been a couple or less hours of this and when I got up to prepare for her Daddy to come home from work she was walking very wobbly. I knew then, something was wrong! I had a doxie prior to her who passed after 16 yrs from kidney failure and had never had back issues. I didn't expect this was the issue with Grace, I actually thougt she was having a stroke! When my husband got home I told him we had to find a way through the storm to get her to the Specialty hospital ASAP. When we got there, they said is was more than likely a IVDD flareup. He gave an injection of pain medication and sent us home under strict crate rest, prednisone and Tramadol.
At 3 am, she was whining, so I took her out and she was dragging her hind legs, but was able to get a little pee-pee out. We took her back the next morning after I had called her primary Vet, who told me we had a short time to help her and this was an Emergency!
The Specialty Surgeon did a mylegram, and said 2 discs were out and she needed immediate surgery. She did have Deep Pain Sensation on the left side only prior to surgery which he said was good for a better post-op recovery. After surgery he said she had 2 ruptures with spinal cord compression and bruising.It was worse than what we all thought.
We brought her home a couple days after surgery with urinary catheter in place and continuation of the same meds she had been on with a taper on prednisone.
I took her for acupuncture yesterday by the referral of a friend. There isn't any change. She can sometimes stand and hold her weight for a few seconds. During her 2 week check-up by the surgeon, he said she had good "Tone" in her legs, which she didn't have when she went down.
Needless to say, she has all her spunk back but no legs. The Catheter is still in place at least until we see the surgeon on March 26th.
I'm I too hopeful more should be happening right now? Is it really a good idea for a Catheter to be in place this long? What is the usual time for post-surgical crate rest? She's getting very angry about being cooped up and is getting very vocal about it. Any support and advice would be appreciated!
Blessings to all,
Michele
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2013 15:25:59 GMT -7
Michelle, welcome to Dodgerslist we are glad you have joined us. Do know one should think in terms of months for nerves to heal. They may heal during the 6 weeks of crate rest if not there is plenty of time after graduation from crate rest. Was the surgery on 2/22? There are few dogs sent home with a catheter because it can invite infection and scarring. Did the surgeon say why....is she overweight and difficult to express? I would bone up on expressing and ask for a hands on lesson either from your local vet or the surgeon's office. How would you even know if bladder control is return with a cathether. First comes tail wagging when you do happy talk to her, then comes bladder control, then comes return of leg movement. What did the surgeon direct for PT to keep the joints flexible and the muscle tone up? Anything similar to this: youtube.googleapis.com/v/P-NnO8coLzQIs she on a stomach protector while pred is in use? Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 15, 2013 17:37:42 GMT -7
Michelle, we did find your post under Dackels thread. So we made a new one for Grace and have answered. Please let us know if there is anything else we can answer.
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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 16, 2013 12:38:02 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Yes Her surgery was on 2/22. I curently do work with her with passive therapy sort of like your video showed. She is not overweight, little over 10 lbs. The surgeon wants to leave the catheter in place at least until her next appt. on 2/26- unless she is walking, wagging tail etc. He said it prevents the bladder from over stretching which may not correct itself. He said manual expression can sometimes lead to that if not expressed fully, or you have a dog that gets angry in the process. At this point shes about had it with everyone poking around on her. Believe me, I would LOVE nothing more than to have it removed, Whew! Also he said risk of infection is the same with manual expression and with the catheter ( if urine is not fully expressed, an empty bladder is a happy one) He said crate rest post-surgery is 4 wks- I've read 6 wks-What do you think? At this point in time, 3weeks and 1 day- she can somewhat stand on her own for a few seconds. She took her last tapered dose of 5mg prednisone today, and Dr. said no more meds needed. She had her 1st acupuncture a few days ago, didn't see any change but will continue. She did do something amazing today though and would like to get your thoughts. She was whining and wanting out of her crate. I took her out put her on the floor, but she was still trying to tell me something. (It was strange that she didn't have her usual BM in her crate this AM) I asked her "Go outside, Go poo poo? and she started to drag towards the door. I picked her up took her to her usual outdoor area. Lifted her by the tail, so she didn't drag and she took off sniffing to the exact location she usually poops ( I could see her anus bulging until she found the exact spot with sniffing) low and behold, she started pooping!! Okay so does that mean she can pee pee on her own too?  Wondering what and how I should take this? |
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Post by natureluva on Mar 16, 2013 16:03:15 GMT -7
Hi there, the only way you'll be able to determine if she can pee on her own is if that catheter is OUT. What we usually suggest with post-op dogs to determine whether bladder control has returned is to do the "sniff and pee" test. You would carry your dog out to an old pee spot, support her rear with a sling or your hands, let her sniff and tell her to go pee, and see if she can release urine on her own. If she can, then bladder control has returned. If not, you would manually express her bladder right there on the ground so you'd have a fresh pee spot to try with later. SO, until that catheter is out, there is no way to determine whether she has bladder control. If it were my dog, I'd be asking that the catheter come out. That is a good sign that she can sense when she needs to poop. Can she wag her tail at anything exciting, such as being praised, being given a treat, or hearing a knock at the door? Does she have any leg movement at all? I'm just trying to determine the extent of her neurological function, if any. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by my5dogs on Mar 16, 2013 21:06:03 GMT -7
Hi Michelle, same surgery date but a little diff story. 4 yr old Guinness, 15 lb doxie went limp on one leg 2/15 and 2/16 was completely paralyzed. Went to our vet right away and received pred tram idol and steroid injection. We were encouraged to give him 3-7 days of strict rest on the meds and see if he improves...needless to say after six days we got nada. We went to hospital hour away (north star vets in nj, whom we loved). We learned Guinness had no dps and we didn't know when it was lost(based on his level of pain being none for three days, it was likely that tues or we'd he lost it). Our % of successes was less than 5% of him walking again, even w surgery...we figured conservative methods and leaving the problem in his body (assumed at the time he had ruptured discs) we decided let's get rid of the problem inside then move fwd with p.t etc after...knowing we gave him every opportunity.
So surgery was done, three days in hospital, cathider while there but we learned (with some frustration but acceptance) we would be expressing his little bladder three to four times a day ourselves. He had his spunk back but no tail wag, no dps and nothing in his hind. His second p.t appt we were told there was some tone, whe. H ate he would strengthen the front legs and muscles giving him some support on the hind.we constantly keeps his
legs tucked Ina normal sitting position and we have read 500 stories and suggestions through dodgers list. Knowi Guinness is young we feel there is still time to gets letting back, with exercising him and keeping him rested as much as possible.
Its been almost four week and we started acupuncture. After three vets offices or rehabs suggesting try one a week for a few consecutive weeks unless strength changes, we found a fabulous vet who practices Chinese medicine who said...don't wait. Hit him hard with consecutive treatments daily to get best results. Based on scheduling and monetary and logical reasons we opted for four treatments in span of seven days.
We keep going being optimistic that maybe it won't be today or tomorrow but he is young strong and pain free and we know something positive will come of our little guy.
I know finances are not always easy, care credit helped us with nointerest for six months for the $4600 surery. Our p.t and acupuncture visits are adding up to about $500. Although you would ask me if I had resources for this I would say no, but somehow I know ppl are looking out for us. We had two local businesses put a donation jar with Guinness story on it and between them and a caring friend we raised about $350 in two weeks. So, he is all I am saying. Do what you can...read read read and get many options by making calls before settling to one doctors advice. I made many calls before deciding route we have gone. Lots of blessings and we will all come out on top like e dodgers list success stories!!!! It just takes time,
arielle@blacklabstudio.com
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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 19, 2013 15:43:04 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Yes, her surgery was on 2/22. They left her on a catheter with concerns of bladder getting to stretched out if not completely expressed properly, which could lead to permanent blader tone damage. Also they said risk of infection is the same with expression. " A empty bladder is a happy bladder" On another note, I really need some advice! Since her last chec-up visit, a week ago Tuesday, Grace hasn't been drinking much water. She would gobble her mixture of canned food and boiled chicken just fine. Bowels okay, couple episodes of loose stools but mostly formed. I called the vet hospital(where she had surgery) was told it was okay she was getting water through her canned food, and pour some water in it as well, keep an eye on her and call with any new changes. Well, yesterday noticed she wasn't her normal spirited self, didn't want to be messed with, barely ate, still wouldn't drink, not much urinary output at all, urine dark and cloudy. This AM she had a normal BM outside after she sniffed around awhile ( I praised her even though I don't know if she actually knew she was pooping!) So, I called and told the vet hospital, what was happening, they advised to bring her in for blood and urine tests and possibly more if needed to see what was wrong. Had to leave her there since they decided after checking her, she had some pain in her abdomen after palpitating it. Dr, suggested a abdominal ultrasound as well. Got a call 4 hrs later. Diagnosis: Urinary tract infection ( I assumed that already) Somewhat dehydrated and ultrasound showed enlargement of her pancreas, so she has some pancreatitis. They said they don't know what caused the pancreatitis ? and it should resolve on its own. Also showed some debris in her bladder. They took the catheter out, started her on IV fluids and antibiotics for UTI, will culture urine to see what the bacteria was in her urine, to be sure they have her on the right antibiotic. They will keep her overnight on fluids etc. start manual expression to see how she handles it. If all goes well I can pick her up tomorrow, and they will teach me how to express her bladder. If that wasn't upsetting enough, The Dr. ( not her surgeon) told me there was no DPS on either side, and prepare to have a paralyzed dog. During her checkup last week with the sugeon (same facility) he said we wouldn't make any real prognosis for 3 months. The Dr. today said most dogs will show some signs of movement with tail wagging, etc, by now, so most likely plan for a cart. At this point I don't know what to believe, but I definately am not giving up hope and agree with his prognosis. She sees the sugeon next Tuesday, which will be 4 weeks and 4 days since sugery, and I will for sure ask him why this Dr. told me this when he said the opposite. Pray we can just get her well from the infection for now and get her home. I hate her to be without me. Any feedback? |
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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 19, 2013 15:52:00 GMT -7
Just wondering if its okay to hold the base of her tail rather than a sling for when i take her outside to see if she can do he business. The surgeon said last week it won't hurt her tail, etc.
Thanks,
Michele
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 19, 2013 20:47:52 GMT -7
Hi Michele,
If your surgeon said 3 months for a prognosis, I would go by what he said.. He knows that nerves take time to heal.. It's too soon to know for sure what her outcome will be.. On your next appt speak again with the surgeon and get his feedback.. I hope he has more encouragement for you
I am not a moderator but my dog Tyler had surgery at the end of January and while he recovered rapidly, some take months.. Keep the faith.. Grace is amazing whether she can walk or not.. Her spirit will move her forward, just wait and see!
Hope she gets back home with you very soon.. Try walking her with holding her tail up, if that works for you but have the sling handy in case that works better. The important thing is supporting her back end and keeping her back level.
There is a shortage of moderators on this very busy site.. The ones that are left are overworked.. I am trying to help out.. Wishing the best for you and Grace..
Pauliana
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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 22, 2013 5:42:35 GMT -7
Hello, Got our grace back from the Er Hospital day before yesterday after bad UTI (from catheter in for over three weeks) and a mild case of pacreatitis, cause unknown- was on a lean fat free diet prior. I have been manually expressing her, but find shes still leaking in her crate. Is that normal??? Tried the dog diapers but they won't stay on. She'll probebly graduate from crate rest next week and would rather she not leak while scooting around, she still isn't showing any signs of movement, except she'll raise her tail right before the pee-pee comes out while expressing. It will be 4 weeks and 4 days next Tuesday the 26th. They also started her on Hills RX diet low fat GI restore and she loves it. Problem: Haven't been willing to drink water? ? So I've been putting it in with her food which she eats all of. Don't understand that at all! If anyone out there has suggestions as to the leaking and options for diapers or to why she won't drink, please help. amazing Grace"s mom |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 22, 2013 8:33:34 GMT -7
Hi, Michelle, I moved your post to keep it in the surgery board so we'd have all of Grace's posts under one topic: Michelle's Grace 2/22 surgery. Can you tell us how often you are expressing Gracie? If she is still on pred what dose of Prednisone in mg and how often are you giving it? Expressing is a combo of doing it often enough (while on pred every 2-3 hours) when off of pred (every 3-4 hours. AND that you have reached the level of proficience in your expressing skill to be able to feel about for the bladder ...the last stage is the bladder is so flat you can almost feel the fingers of your other hand. Diapers can cause their own problems and most animal abhor having waste near their body. So do not hesitate to go back to the vet to express in clinic and have them check your work, give you another hands on top of your hands lesson and review our expressing video and tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmIf you are adding water to each of her kibble meals and she is gettig high moisture canned food, she might be getting enough water intake. Total water intake comes from food and what is lapped up. You can offer her some frozen broth cubes to lick during the day... it's entertaining, lo cal and helps to keep them hydrated. Grace's graduation day will be April 5. Have you begun thinking about ideas to make your home more back friendly, how you will ease her back in to activity? Lots of good ideas in our Section under "After Crate Rest...now what?" www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm#aftercrate |
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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 23, 2013 4:47:05 GMT -7
Yes, I'm expressing Grace every 2-3 hrs. Its going well but she has some leaking! Is this normal? Does it stop in time? She is not on prednisone anymore, but taking 125mg every 12 hrs for UTI, (probebly caused from the cath in for over three wks.) My wash machine is getting quite the work out, I want everything and her to stay clean. The leaking bothers me as we just sold our house and have to keep it well maintained for new owners. She will be scooting around soon- I refuse to imprison her anymore after crate rest! Will try to get her to drink again today- I am putting water in with her canned food mixed with chicken breast that I boil. Will pick up a ice cube tray for the broth, but must make sure its low fat due to the mild case of pancreatitis she just had.(unsure what flared that up,she was eating Pro Plan canned w/boiled chicken breast even prior to surgery) Vet switched her to Hills RX diet low fat GI restore canned. Any suggestions on some kind of bone to chew on(not rawhide, or nylebone) or a low fat, organic, grain free bone (treat) ? On another note, she had her first bath in the tub, she felt soooo good, and happy YAY! I did fill the tub up to the bottom of her neck to see if she would try to swim, but she didn't. Later that night I was massaging her legs while she was laying on her side (on the floor) and she stretched, and her back legs stretched with the front! Also noticed her tail moving some. Wishful thinking? ?? Can't wait for Graduation! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 23, 2013 9:54:50 GMT -7
Michelle, the leaking can be due to her bladder infection. Which anti-biotic is she on as of 3/19?
It can possible be the anti-biotic selected is not the right match for the bacteria in her bladder. The on-site vet's urinalysis only indicates there is bacteria present but not the name. It is a urine culture (UC) that takes days to grow bacteria where the exact ones can be identified and matched to the right anti-biotic. Vets select a broad spectrum anti-biotic to target several strains of bacteria in hopes it will take out the one causing Grace's infection. If the infection is not clearing up, then usually a UC will be done. Have you let your vet know about the leaking? There are medications that can help with the leaking should it be from neuro damage. Bears discussing with your vet to see where her problem stems from.
Make no fat broth at home, far better than the canned/boxed stuff. De-skin some chicken pieces, boil, cool and then lift and disc card the hardened fat disk. Include the pieces of boiled chicken and the cartilage parts with the nutritious broth to freeze into cubes.
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Post by amazinggrace on Mar 23, 2013 17:28:07 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
They did a UC, don't have results yet, I'll check again tomorrow. They put her on Clavimox 125mg taken once every 12 hours. Yep, I kept the broth I boiled the chicken breast in, will try that. Leaking is getting a little better. Haven't seen much of any movement today. I MUST get her into physical therapy and back to acupuncture ASAP- Don't want her to lose to much muscle tone and strength just in case she does walk. Still thinking positive. I can tell her spirit is somewhat broken. Being the non stop, go-getter little girl she once was to almost nothing is heartbreaking. I've literally devoted this entire month to her 24/7, and I won't give up!
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Post by amazinggrace on Apr 4, 2013 4:56:31 GMT -7
Update on Grace! Finished her antibiotic for the UTI yesterday. She will have another UC next week to determine if infection is gone. She still is not interested in drinking water, I still have to add to her food. Having a little more trouble expressing her lately. Not sure why. The leaking has gotten better though. On a very positive note, and need some feedback! Took her to Physical therapy recently for first time. She is starting to stand and support her weight at longer intervals only when I make her. The therapist put her in the underwater treadmill in 4 and 1/2 inches water. She was actually walking and her tail was moving back and forth like crazy! I was amazed! She will be 6 wks post surgery this Friday. I'm curious to know, why she can move her tail and walk her back legs by herself in the tank but doesn't at all on ground. I understand in the water shes not as heavy and is easier to walk but thought she would do more or try more on solid ground. She still doesn't wag her tail when happy or excited but did it in water. Is this a positive or is it a natural reflex? Please respond with your thoughts. She is scheduled for 2 days next week as well, and will also start laser.
Thanks,
Mommy to Grace
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Post by amazinggrace on Apr 4, 2013 5:09:28 GMT -7
Want to mention also, she has her total spitfire spirit back- being playful, scooting all over, I tend to think that if she scoots to much she'll think its easier than trying to walk. Also in regard to what I posted last, I thought that since she walked and moved her tail back and forth in the treadmill underwater and its harder to express, she might be regaining bladder function. BUT- have had her outside alot with her Gingerlead to sniff around but doesn't pee.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2013 9:14:45 GMT -7
This is why we highly recommend water treadmill. There is something about the ground moving (the treadmill) PLUS the buoyancy of the water to make leg motion much easier, that expedites the nerves and muscles learning how to walk again. Just like stroke victims and even babies...they have to learn how to walk.
The tail movements in water may well have been brain controlled to help with balance or it could be reflex. For us humans we need to see that an action was brain directed and we do that by doing some happy excited talk and then see if the tail wags due to being joyful.
Now that she does have leg movements, that can explain why it is harder to express...she is fighting you. So continue to bring her outdoors each potty time and give the sniff and pee test. If she releases urine after sniffing I'd still do a quick express check to make sure she can void all the urine.
You may wish to update your profile status which shows above the number of posts..."Please read my first...." Go to Profile and enter a new message. Don't forget to press the "update Status" button to save it.
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Post by amazinggrace on Apr 6, 2013 8:42:55 GMT -7
Took Grace outside this Am, went to express her after putting her in the grass, she spread her legs and started to pee before I even touched her belly. Wishful thinking? Why can't she try and walk on the ground when she walked in the treadmill?? I know the water makes it easier but could she be doing spinal walking in the treadmill?? Not quite sure what that is but have heard others comment on it. Still no tail wagging either. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 6, 2013 12:10:20 GMT -7
Michelle, moving her legs to pee is a good sign that bladder control IS coming back. We like to see a sniff and then pee too. I would continue to do a quick express check after she pees on her own til you see she really is voiding all the urine herself. A dog that has bladder control and can move the legs has deep pain sensation. Some dogs who do not have deep pain sensation have figured out away to use reflexes to spinal walk. In our age of instant everything...it is hard to have patience with nerve healing. You are doing the right thing with water treadmill to expedite the art of learning to walk again... it just takes time. How are you doing with your readings on our Disc Disease 101 core readings page? www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm "Shortcut though IVDD" has a video and more explanation from Dr. Clemmons about spinal walking and how that happens. |
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member 
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294 
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Apr 10, 2013 7:51:29 GMT -7
Hi Michelle, I haven't seen any post from you lately and hope you are doing ok. I wanted to let you know, I read somewhere about someone using the infant drawstring gowns on their FurBabies in similar situations as yours. It won't help much with the pee or poo, it was more or less just to protect the bum from brush burn from scooting. Hoping things are looking up for you, Hugs and Prayers going out to you..  |
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Post by Pauliana on May 19, 2013 19:52:35 GMT -7
Found this in my messages and moved it to your thread for Grace, Michelle.
Grace is going on a little over 3 months now since surgery. She has been doing hydrotherapy with the underwater treadmill and is walking in it. Her tail has begun to wag but not all the time. Got her a cart from Eddies Wheels and walks her back legs in it when in use on her daily walks. Her Right leg is a lot weaker and tends to drag more. She will still have accidents especially if she gets excited, but for the most part will hold till potty time if I get to her soon enough. The Bowel movements are still unpredictable. Doing acupuncture as well once a week. She is "herself again" except for just scooting still on solid ground. Her Dr's and therapists are happy with her progress and encourage continuing PT, to get her stronger and to keep her strong. She can stand on her own (when she wants to) for about 30 seconds and is taking a few steps once in awhile on her own.
Just wondering if this is really as far as she will go. Her surgeon said where she is at 6 months is probably where she'll stay. I pray she's walking before then! What do I do about covering her right back paw around the toe area as she has as of today scuffed it on the top while walking in her wheels and started bleeding. She doesn't always get that one paw down while walking. Can't use booties as she won't do anything with them on.
A big Thanks to everyone on Dodgerslist for being there for me since the beginning. I hope the progress she has made will give us more hope that eventually she will walk again. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Grace and Michele
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Post by Pauliana on May 19, 2013 21:17:55 GMT -7
Hi Michelle, Thanks for popping in with an update! Glad Grace is doing well and she is getting wonderful therapy! Happy to hear she is taking a few steps here and there and standing too. Healing, especially nerve healing has no time limit, so keep an eye out for improvements even after 6 months. Garments to protect if your dog drags his legs behind, there are padded garments to protect the skin. Pam's easy cape for Ollie www.dogleggs.com/files/rear.cfm Make sure she only spends 2 hours a day in her wheelchair and keep up the great care you are giving her!! |
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Wondering what and how I should take this?
